THe Shadow fox Arcan breeding project.

[SYED]

There will only be two permant shadow fox changed. One will only have a set of kits only from kyvern, while the other will have a litter from both toby and Kyvern. Danna will have a litter with kyvern. SAy there is a minimum of three to litter right. That mean 12 baby arcans for the population to be looked after by the two adult females. Shaman arcan live longer possibly due to spirit energies, so i wonder if shadow fox arcans would gain an increased life span. If so, then any of the litter males arcans could have kits with other new female kits when grown, or the original female ones.

Do we know if the failure to breed with base line fox arcan will be carried onto the next generation of shadow fox? It would help the bloodline to have a wider breeding pool. Due to the limited numbers the existing SFA females must have children with the mature kitts in the future. I forget their names so i put numbers for now, initials for the once human SFA. Due to low numbers, and interbreeding issues with other fox arcans, the breeding project would have to be careully monitored and planed to prevent inbreeding.
1st-k, can only breed with children of t
2nd-t, can only breed with the children of k
d-k, can only breed with children of t
2nd-k, can only breed with children of t
1st female must have kitts with any of the other three litters, while the 2nd female can only pick from 2 litters.
K now he is able to be true human or true arcan at will, can produce additional litters with the 2 former shadow fox monsters, and any of the females from the litter sired by toby. that would be potential prices for deals with the spirit.

[MartinK]

Who said that that will be all there will ever be? I seem to remember some hints that there would be others... and i doubt the shadow fox lacks intelligence to plan ahead for the future of the very existence of her kind. Since i'm sure there will be a few more letters in your formula i'm not going to touch those here.

[GBLW]

Who said that that will be all there will ever be? I seem to remember some hints that there would be others... and i doubt the shadow fox lacks intelligence to plan ahead for the future of the very existence of her kind. Since i'm sure there will be a few more letters in your formula i'm not going to touch those here.

Besides, everyone seems to have forgotten Kyven's brief tryst with a hooker in Book One of the series and the little 'hook' that Fel left dangling at that time.

KP

[SYED]

It seems to me that the spirit had to invest alot of power/energy in these transformations, especially if she wished to make it permanent. So while she could potentially make more it would not be with out cost. It would be more cost effective to breed using the existing gene pool. I wonder if using her power/ or another spirts, to allow breeding between different types of foxes, would cost less energy than tranforming new arcans. Since she is more illusion and shadow, another spirit might be capable to allow the shadow fow breed more able to integrate with other foxes. THey would be in high demand by other foxes. Thier children could potnetially be born with powers and abilities, beyond that of normal arcans. Also, as most of the breed will be descended from kyvern, so they might inherit hte potential to be shaman.

IS it me or could shadow fox become their own class in the arcans? We know that all arcans respect and follow shaman. THe shadow fox breed would gain a similar position due to their abilities. The shaman are sort of priest/noble classe, so while the fox are military/spy class. I wonder how prevalent will shamans be amongst them. Will they all be totem to the shaow fox, totem shamans or could they be free to bargin at will?

If kyvern already has a human child from that hooker, i wonder if at some point, he will be made to have child with the other shaman, to increase the likelyhood of a shaman in the next human generation. I wonder if htere is a way for human shaman, or those more sensitive to spirit energies to be located. If they could be, they could get invited to the lands of the arcans, to increase the chance of more human shaman being created. I wonder with toby now augemented, would any of his progeny have increased potential of spirit energy. After the war, i can he the king of carin hiring him, as he might the most open to having a guy like him on the pay roll.

To alter monsters into arcan require something taken from humans, so could they create a spell or alchemical weapon, to take the needed material from the invading army. a bunch of humans are going to die, might as well make use of them before the end.

[MartinK]

to allow breeding between different types of foxes, would cost less energy than tranforming new arcans.

Or it ends with a being thats unable to procreate. Donkeys and horses are of the same genus 'Equus', yet the result would be a mule, sterile and therefore useless for planning future generations. If you don't get a sterile result, you still would get a mix of attributes, a new species so to speak.

Thier children could potnetially be born with powers and abilities, beyond that of normal arcans. Also, as most of the breed will be descended from kyvern, so they might inherit hte potential to be shaman.

Potnetially speaking, all arcans have the ability to become shaman. There are some even before kyv appeared, right? It seems to be more a question of need and the will of the spirits than a mortal potential to become shaman.

IS it me or could shadow fox become their own class in the arcans?

So... what, all the other arcan subraces are just cows to be watched and thats it? How do you know there aren't any other arcans with.. 'special powers' they are born with? Besides, the human race has achieved much and our only special power is brains. That seems to be the case with all arcans as well. It's only hard to get used to using it in the first place, especially after a livelong enslavement.

[SYED]

I meant that new kind of arcan that has their own unique magics are sure to alter the social order of the arcan. The arcans are a bunch of different animal races, that live together in harmony, yet can only breed with in their own species. They all follow and respect the shamans. So how owuld the shadow fox breed integrate. WOuld they be seen as a type of shaman? A new breed by themselves.
We are all human, yet we fight and argue over the smallest things. so it makes sense if a new type of arcan might cause at least some issues.

[MartinK]

We are human, we fight. Give us a more dangerous enemy and make us believe so, we'll stop fighting each other fast enough.

The arcans are busy with the humans, they'll not simply start being in awe of yet another new race of arcans, no matter how unknown. And since humans won't ever be gone completely they'll always be a concern to arcans. Well, i just hope they won't all (as in everywhere) be killed, i doubt the arcans could live with the guilt.

[Belgarion213]

Hmm...one thing I would actually be interested in is the fact that Human's are pursuit predators. We have seen how strong and fast Arcan's are, significantly greater than human's, but are they better pursuit predators as well? Human's can hunt by just keep walking behind a target and just exhaust them to death because we are amazing at long term stamina. We just keep walking and animals that could over short distance out run us drop dead from exhaustion.

Now as for the Shadow-Fox breeding project...I doubt that these are the ONLY Shadow-fox's there are going to be. And yes while the Spirit put a fair bit of power into making them, for the expansion of her breeding pool I think it would work. There is Kyven's little tryst with the prostitute, his children that he already has and probably will have eventually...

[SYED]

I wonder if hte other spirits will aid the breeding project, due to the success of the shadow empowered arcans. It is a coming time of great upheavel, so the addition of more of these unique arcans could greatly aid the arcan people in general and potentially even the humans. look how kyvern has helped the war effort, a few more shadow arcan could mean the difference in thousands of lives, or even more in the coming conflicts.

[Belgarion213]

While that's true I think a lot of it is to do with Kyven himself. There's something...special about him that made the Shadow Fox spirit put so much interest in him (his mind specifically). Not quiet in the same way Tarrin was a sleeping magical powerhouse but there was something special about him. More I always got the feeling that the Shadow Fox is...different to the rest of the spirits, both in her way of thinking and the ways she ...I want to say munchkins her way to a winning hand. Now if there were other spirits for quuasi-magical animals maybe they would try to get there own breeding program going but I doubt the other spirits would go out of their way to try and make that spirit any more powerful than she already is.

[SoronelHaetir]

I would certainly believe that any spirit not interested in taking a totem relationship is not going to be interested in making any type of arcan or shaman more powerful than they already are. Any spirit not interested in a totem relationship is, I believe, just not interested enough in what individuals do for that to be the case.

I also find it somewhat interesting that the only totem shaman we know of right now are humans (Kyven and Andra). That could also be because humans just aren't strong enough magically without a totem to be any good at all as shaman.

[SYED]

We know there are elemental spirits, so would we see a shaman totem to the 4 elements. While kind of limited, it could be very cool. We know some spirits have affinities for certain powers, but could a shaman be totem to a type of crystal instead. There less than 7 types of known crystals, i wondeer if shamans could produce other types, so back, white, the colours of the rainbow and potentially more.

[SoronelHaetir]

I suspect that elemental spirits aren't 'personal' enough to be interested in any sort of totem relationship. That the very fact that they chose to align themselves with such impersonal forces indicates that such a relationship simply is not in their nature.

[SYED]

I was talking about being a totem shaman to a sphere of influence/magic or the world. So an earth shaman would do spelles affecting the earth, and only able to make bargains with earth elementals.

[SoronelHaetir]

Seems even more unlikely. A lot of it is that I suspect that a spirit is only going to enter into a totem relationship if that spirit hopes to accomplish something in particular. And I just don't see elemental forces (or the spirits that embody those forces) having any sort of motivation along that line. I mean, take the one elemental spirit we have seen (the pile of rocks that Clover bargained with to obtain gold), I have a very difficult time seeing a spirit that chooses a pile of rocks as its form has any care whatsoever about what happens in the material world. And I believe the same would be true for other elemental spirits, that they just wouldn't care enough about living creatures to have any interest in what happens to them. Life could completely disappear and I don't think the elemental spirits would take much notice.