Online stories

[Olli]

I've been browsing several different sites for reading and recently I've been pretty much been overwhelmed by sites that have been begging for my contribution in one way or another.

I won't mention others than

Online writers I've been following for a long time want contributions.

I'm basically a lurker on all of these different boards (this is the one I contribute the most ) and as a follower I want to say some things.

Online writers
If, at first when you give your writings to public at large, you are happy to receive only critisism as payment, don't try later on to make it into a paying job. This is now the only board I am or was a part of where this has not happened. The readers you have are not rich, they have payments too. The reason I started reading Online stories of anykind is that I had not the money to purchase books from a store and this seemed a good place to find some that didn't require it.

And if you try selling your stories, don't sell stories that aren't finished, one chapter a time. Would you buy a story like that? There's nothing worse than a story left unfinished.

I know it's going to hurt some feelings reading this (and not knowing who's being targeted), but really, think what you would buy, if you were being sold a full story for ten bucks, or a story that the writer would write when s/he feels like it for a donation.


Sorry for the rant

[Wolfee]

Totally agree... there is several authors I can specifically think of off the top of my head who every month or two would release a sob story about how they and they're families where having hard time making rent or paying for heating etc.... I was never sure if it was true or not and I always felt it was actually done to drum up extra cash.

I've stopped reading what they wrote and no longer visit they're websites because of it.

I personally appreciate that Fel is writing for his/our enjoyment and keeping it free.

[Fel]

Wow, I need to learn how to write those sob stories.

They sound like real tear-jerkers.

It's just a crying shame I didn't think of it first.

Well, I could go on, but the cheap and easy crying puns aren't presenting themselves. But I won't weep over it.

I'm not the kind to cry over the spilled milk.

/duck.

[Olli]

I expected a lot more controversy on this thing.

Why aren't there anyone defending the opposite?

Is this so clearcut?

Please tell why an opposing side of view could be right?

I'm not doing this for flaming purposes; I just want to understand the thinking behind it.

[Lochar]

I write fanfiction. While not a story all on it's own, I am of the same opinion. I've seen a few authors hold new chapters hostage for X number of reviews 'and they need to be more than Good Chapter!' crap.

If you're publishing stories to the internet, you're doing it for pleasure. If you're publishing a chapter at a time to the internet, the only payment you should get AND EXPECT is critique, criticism, and accolades. No where in there is money.


If you want to get paid, like you said. Start out that way.

Tenhawk, who is one of the fanfic writers I follow, built a fanbase on his fanfiction. However, when he started publishing real stories, they are paid products. He did not start publishing his original stories and then start charging.


So.

If you start out free, that particular story must stay free. Use it to build a fanbase. THEN milk them for money for other stories. It'd be like Fel withholding the last three chapters of Demon's Bane until we'd forked over a combined dollar amount per chapter. We would have hunted him down and stole his computer for those chapters, not paid.

[samuelmichaels]

I expected a lot more controversy on this thing.

Why aren't there anyone defending the opposite?

Is this so clearcut?

Please tell why an opposing side of view could be right?

I'm not doing this for flaming purposes; I just want to understand the thinking behind it.

Okay, I will take the other side. First, I must say that I also occasionally get frustrated by some of these.

But, the following cases I've seen are fairly benign:
1) Sites & authors that welcome, but do not exhort (or extort ), donations. Spearfish Lake Tales (SLT) come to mind.
2) Sites that make it possible to buy a (e-)book in advance of the serial being completed for free. SLT is an example, once more.
3) Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote a novel financed by reader contributions: The Spriggan Mirror. He was very clear at the start about his proposed writing model, and it ended up quite successful -- but only because he's built up a large following by that point, ironically using commercial publishing.
4) There are a few authors that publish several free books on-line, having pointers to paid sequels.

I think what distinguishes the samples that seemed to work for me were:
a) clear explanation of what was (or would be) freely available, and what required payment: no bait and switch, no payment for content that might, at some point in the future, be completed;
b) avoidance of persistent pleading, prompting, pressing, preaching, prodding -- a little reminder that the author welcomes donations goes a long way.

[Fiferguy]

I totally agree. If you write a story for online publication, don't expect people to pay for them. It's the internet. Do it for fun, or don't do it. Besides, quite a few of the stories I've seen this happen to aren't really all that good... Certainly not something that I would buy in a store.

There was even one, I won't mention names, that was a 3 volume series that was pretty good. The author turned around after a couple years and started charging for all three books. Very sad to see that happen.

[Zor]

While I think its generally annoying. I do to a point understand.

You got to remember, that a lot of these writers online want to be book publishers.
They want to some day say they are a successful paid writer. They want to eventually have a paper book.

Some times what happens, is they start writing for free, and then deside "Oh Wow, this is my best work Iv done, I should try to sell it, if I make money, I can afford to write more and maybe get a book really published!" So free stuff is pulled and replaced by pay.

I am not a believer in its the internet, everything should be free. That isnt sustainable. The internet has everyone from hobbiest to want to be professionals and professionals and everything in-between. I see no reason why someone would expect the best of the best to be free.

[dawich]

3) Lawrence Watt-Evans wrote a novel financed by reader contributions: The Spriggan Mirror. He was very clear at the start about his proposed writing model, and it ended up quite successful -- but only because he's built up a large following by that point, ironically using commercial publishing.

LWE and Diane Duane did this because they were dropped from their publishers, when they had another book (at least) in the series. They both did it as experiments, and it was very successful for them - both turned the results into dead tree publishing contracts, in that series, again. DD could always do other books, but she wanted to finish the Cat Wizards.

For Stephen King, not so much. Though, I've heard, he gave up before the numbers dropped below what he would write for - like the story got stuck.

[Never_Fear]

All i can really add to this discussion is to say that if Fel ever decides to publish his books I'd buy them

[Lochar]

I'd buy anything new Fel published, yes. If he tried to sell the current Sennadar series, I'd have issue.

[Fiferguy]

I'd buy anything new Fel published, yes. If he tried to sell the current Sennadar series, I'd have issue.

Yeah, it'd have to be a new story for me to buy it. I have all Fel's current stories saved to my hard drive.

[the_scot]

As one of those who write and publish on-line, I'm also turned off by the constant harping of 'woe is me' from a writer who seems to go from one financial crisis to another. What's worse is that though his early works were fresh and well worth the reading, too much of his later stories (or parts of stories) almost seem to be written from a formula. I have sent money to him and several others (including Fel) in the past, but I have decided that enough is enough. When I have it to spare, I'll send some to Fel or to cmsix, but I find that some of the others have focused too much on the financial aspect and not enough on the product.

Now, I don't have things easy financially, and my publishing is sometime sporadic due to health issues and other distractions. Still I try to press on and only use my blog to communicate prayer needs (non-financial) and to let my readers know that I'm still alive and reasons for abnormal delays. I do have a donate button on my blog site, but I never point to it, or make appeals for financial help. In fact, there was a long period last year where I couldn't write, and I couldn't update my blog because I was afraid I would say something that would fit the 'woe is me' category.

I hope that in saying these things, I'm not coming off as better than someone else, but my feelings have been building in this area for more than a year, and I just had to add my two cents.

[GBLW]

Well, I couldn't answer this before, but I want to stick an oar in the water and a lot of you probably won't like what I have to say, so be warned!

Wake up people! Whether people ask for remuneration for their hours and hours of researching, typing, editing and posting their work is their business -- if you don't like the idea of having to pay for their labour and skull sweat, then don't start reading any of their work. Accept the portion that you got for free as a gift and accept the fact that you ain't gonna get no more unless you shell out a few shekels for that last chapter or two. It's that simple. Bitching and acting entitled to be given something for nothing seems to be to be the characteristics of a spoiled infant rather than that of a reasoning adult.

Did I just call your rants childish? You damn right I did! Not everyone is like me, a crotchety old curmudgeon who writes to please himself and posts what he wants, when he wants, where he wants. (Of course I also reserve the right to abandon a story in mid plot if I find it no longer pleases me to carry on writing that tale!) I don't ask for payment, but an occasional "Thank you!" for something I am writing goes over pretty damn big in my world. Of course there are the nice guys like 'Fel' or 'The Scot' and a hundred others who also post for no remuneration. By not charging we are becoming more and more of a rarity because the world is changing -- finances are becoming a lot slimmer for damn near everyone -- not just the spoiled few who are reading 'free' literature on the Internet and bitching about the 'cost' of a few stories.

It all boils down to the fact that writers are NOT people who expect 'instant gratification' and demand what they want when they want it. Writers have to work at their craft whether you realise it or not, so for those who charge, they are just asking for a little payment from you, the reader. If you don't like it, don't pay for it.

As for the sob story artists out there, just walk down a street now and you'll see more of their ilk than not many years ago, still standing on the street corner and holding out their hat. The politically correct call them disadvantaged -- I call them beggars, but I do toss them the odd buck if they look like they really need it or have a good sob story to share. However there is one difference when we're talking about writers who beg, they are trying to do SOMETHING to earn a bit of bread during hard times, and I don't think I have to tell any of you that it is a tough world right now for a LOT of people.

Just do me a little favour huh, have a bit of sympathy or at least calm down, the fact that someone is charging a few bucks for all their hard work isn't killing anyone! After all, there are still a lot of new people joining the 'crew' of internet writers, at least until those new writers find out they can write well enough that people start asking for their work, then of course they just might start charging too. After all of that, the only comment I have is an old saying that applies; 'Tough titty, kitty, but the milk's still good.'

kp