I'm curious

[Quinn31]

How advance do you think our society would have been if we didn't encounter the Renaissance or the dark ages?

[blakagant]

i would think quite a bit. A lot of knowledge was forgotten with the fall of the roman empire and the start of the dark ages. but wasn't the renaissance like a giant cultural change, from barbarism to modern culture? Like a sudden movement of free thought.

[Quinn31]

i would think quite a bit. A lot of knowledge was forgotten with the fall of the roman empire and the start of the dark ages. but wasn't the renaissance like a giant cultural change, from barbarism to modern culture? Like a sudden movement of free thought.

i think so. I never really payed attention in school in that subject. lol. I had more interest in Asian history.

[kal]

i saw i chart somewhere that rated humanity's technological progress over time starting at the year 0. there was an almost exponential growth rate until the dark ages (it was rated something like 1100 ad until 1300 ad), where it flattened out and actually went down a small amount. during the renaissance that growth rate slowly until around 1500 where our technological growth became exponential again. i did see it on the net so that makes in not very believable, however i can see why it could be believed. just thing 100 to 200 years ago humanity was still dependent on a fire for basic needs such as light and cooking. now we call having a fireplace in our house a luxury and some percentage will use electric ranges and heat. hell we have even traveled to the moon. if you went to the 1800's and said that they would call you insane! it is actually hard to imagine what could have been accomplished if the dark ages never happened to me. we probably would be the faey or something!

[Quinn31]

I'd have to agree I think we would have made it a lot further then we are now if the dark ages hadn't occurred, even right now we are running into something like that again but instead of religion it'll be a technical wall. my uncle believes we'll hit that wall in about 5yrs or so. I was thinking maybe 10.

[dellstart]

Depends what angle , you are looking from. Technologically, morally or socially. Its not so simple.

[Bester]

I don't think that this time period had as much effect on science as you seem to think, but I do have to admit that I'm not that familiar with the time period. At this time, the Church dominated European culture and governance. Most of what I think of from the Renaissance is the art, not the science. There were a few well known great thinkers, such as Galileo and Da Vinci, but even they were ostracized and their discoveries disregarded for the most part.

The Dark Ages were even worse, as during this time period everything was dominated by wars. I can't think of any real advances in science that occurred during this time period.

I'd have to agree I think we would have made it a lot further then we are now if the dark ages hadn't occurred, even right now we are running into something like that again but instead of religion it'll be a technical wall. my uncle believes we'll hit that wall in about 5yrs or so. I was thinking maybe 10.

I have a hard time swallowing this statement. Advances are being made by the day in virtually every field of science every day, with no end in sight. I could believe an individual field (or sub-field more likely) could eventually be stymied by a technological barrier, but science as a whole?

[crxbnt]

Dellstart makes an excellent point.

I was reading something else today that brought this into focus. The Dark Ages is known as a time of regression in almost all areas of life in Europe (the "known" worls at the time). What many forget is that along with many wars, this was a time of great pestilence. A number of plagues spread across the world during this time decimating civilization as we know it. Many large cities were left with but a fraction of their population. This had a major effect on all of society. There were not enough healthy people growing food to support industry, education, much government. Not only was there a lack of basic services (food and drink) there were too few customers able to purchase items, causing the few skilled tradespeple and educators to leave their pursuits for more fundamental survival.

There is a lot of debate about what a pandemic would cause in our world today. Signifigantly, many writers have written books themed Post Apochalyptic. And most governments are seriously investigating and planning for pandemics, catastrophic natural events (hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, eruptions).

I have not studied Asia and te Americas nearly as much during the same period. I do understand that they had their share of pandemics and catastrophes as well. I suspect that the world as such will always experience such, with resulting impacts on societies and world dominance. While their are many altruists alive and well, there are equally large numbers of those who are not. I suspect that the same held true 4,000 years ago, 2,000 years ago, and will tomorrow, and in a 1,000 years from now as well.

Many things seem to change in our world, but people seem to exhibit the same needs, desires, bounty and selfishness when ever we look at them.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[tereszcz]

I'd have to agree I think we would have made it a lot further then we are now if the dark ages hadn't occurred, even right now we are running into something like that again but instead of religion it'll be a technical wall. my uncle believes we'll hit that wall in about 5yrs or so. I was thinking maybe 10.

I don't think we are running into technological wall. I think we are on the verge of a massive technological revolution. There are 3 technologies that will change the face of the world. They are genetics, space industrialization and quantum computing and communications.

Genetics will have major impact on how we produce food, manufacture goods and our approach to medicine. Do not be surprised to see us farming lands that previously could not support life to large extent. Do not be surprised to see genetically engineered products, such as lumber, or bacteria producing fuel for us. In medicine, in the next 15 to 20 years you'll see us being able to reverse aging and correct genetic defects at DNA level.

Space industrialization will happen. We are at the cusp of it, just like we were in aviation in the late 1890's. The energy, material science and resources that will flow from space are mind boggling.

The quantum computing will permit us to solve many problems that are beyond our computing capacity and there are many, I should know, because I work on it every day. The potential of quantum communication is astronomical. Can you imagine being able to transmit 1TB in a second to any point in a universe without interference or possibility of interception?

If we don't kill ourselves in the next 2 decades, I expect us to live for hundreds of years going back to schools to be retrained multiple times spreading through out solar system, and seriously looking at travel to other stars. It doesn't matter if a trip takes 250 years if your life span is practically immortal.

[tereszcz]

Dellstart makes an excellent point.

I was reading something else today that brought this into focus. The Dark Ages is known as a time of regression in almost all areas of life in Europe (the "known" worls at the time). What many forget is that along with many wars, this was a time of great pestilence. A number of plagues spread across the world during this time decimating civilization as we know it. Many large cities were left with but a fraction of their population. This had a major effect on all of society. There were not enough healthy people growing food to support industry, education, much government. Not only was there a lack of basic services (food and drink) there were too few customers able to purchase items, causing the few skilled tradespeple and educators to leave their pursuits for more fundamental survival.

There is a lot of debate about what a pandemic would cause in our world today. Signifigantly, many writers have written books themed Post Apochalyptic. And most governments are seriously investigating and planning for pandemics, catastrophic natural events (hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, eruptions).

I have not studied Asia and te Americas nearly as much during the same period. I do understand that they had their share of pandemics and catastrophes as well. I suspect that the world as such will always experience such, with resulting impacts on societies and world dominance. While their are many altruists alive and well, there are equally large numbers of those who are not. I suspect that the same held true 4,000 years ago, 2,000 years ago, and will tomorrow, and in a 1,000 years from now as well.

Many things seem to change in our world, but people seem to exhibit the same needs, desires, bounty and selfishness when ever we look at them.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I am not too worried about naturally occurring pandemics. We can contain them. I am much more worried about designer pandemics. Those are scary. The knowledge to do it, is fairly easily obtainable, if you want to persevere in your education and reach a phd level. Changing few genes in simple disease can be very destructive to human life.

We can protect ourselves against nukes with MAD & technology, to some extent, but against bio attack there is very little that we can do except die.

[Greymist]

If we don't kill ourselves in the next 2 decades, I expect us to live for hundreds of years going back to schools to be retrained multiple times spreading through out solar system, and seriously looking at travel to other stars. It doesn't matter if a trip takes 250 years if your life span is practically immortal.

If we don't kill ourselves...reminds me of this XKCD comic

[Quinn31]

I'd have to agree I think we would have made it a lot further then we are now if the dark ages hadn't occurred, even right now we are running into something like that again but instead of religion it'll be a technical wall. my uncle believes we'll hit that wall in about 5yrs or so. I was thinking maybe 10.

I don't think we are running into technological wall. I think we are on the verge of a massive technological revolution. There are 3 technologies that will change the face of the world. They are genetics, space industrialization and quantum computing and communications.

Genetics will have major impact on how we produce food, manufacture goods and our approach to medicine. Do not be surprised to see us farming lands that previously could not support life to large extent. Do not be surprised to see genetically engineered products, such as lumber, or bacteria producing fuel for us. In medicine, in the next 15 to 20 years you'll see us being able to reverse aging and correct genetic defects at DNA level.

Space industrialization will happen. We are at the cusp of it, just like we were in aviation in the late 1890's. The energy, material science and resources that will flow from space are mind boggling.

The quantum computing will permit us to solve many problems that are beyond our computing capacity and there are many, I should know, because I work on it every day. The potential of quantum communication is astronomical. Can you imagine being able to transmit 1TB in a second to any point in a universe without interference or possibility of interception?

If we don't kill ourselves in the next 2 decades, I expect us to live for hundreds of years going back to schools to be retrained multiple times spreading through out solar system, and seriously looking at travel to other stars. It doesn't matter if a trip takes 250 years if your life span is practically immortal.

I can imagine a lot of things, I have so many ideas in my head that it's hard for me to sleep sometimes. my problem is i don't have the ability to put them on paper or the education and training to build them. the education part I have to fix since I screwed up when i was younger so I have to save up money to be able to pay back the old loans.

How are they taking care of the heat problems with the computers hardware? you can only do so much with silicone, that will be the biggest hurdle I see. I know everything you said is being done to a point, but then there comes the moral and ethical aspect of things, look how much crap got flicked at stem cell research when people found out that they were making embryo's for the cells, what do you think will happen when people find out about the genetic manipulation on the level your talking. You'll have the religious zealots going up in a firestorm to prevent people from accepting it.

I could be wrong but there isn't really that much money in the private sector for computer hardware and software advancements like your talking, government and military I can see having the money for it, hell I wouldn't be surprised if that's where almost all our advancement goes to instead of civilian use.

hell I could see us using Faey type tech if we were able to overcome the heat issue in electronics and buckle down and put out the money for that type of research. I wouldn't be surprised if the gov isn't already. I know there is a company out there that is working on diamond for computer hardware to overcome the heat issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IBwv9enDzg these are the researchers that are looking into diamonds. I thought at one point microsoft was doing the same thing they could still be I'm not sure.

[GBLW]

Well, considering the fact that there are now something over 7 billion humans on the world and considering the fecundity of the human race, I'd say we'll end up having a few greater problems than a 'technological barrier' in the near future.

[Kendog]

In regards to disease and plague in the Dark Ages. While I don't know for sure in regards to Rome/Roman Empire I think a large part of the spread was because of the lack of any sanitary conditions that most people lived in. I am not saying cities in the Roman Empire were perfect anymore than today, but they did have basic infrastructure to support their population including sewers. In the Dark Ages, they just tossed their waste.

[tereszcz]

I can imagine a lot of things, I have so many ideas in my head that it's hard for me to sleep sometimes. my problem is i don't have the ability to put them on paper or the education and training to build them. the education part I have to fix since I screwed up when i was younger so I have to save up money to be able to pay back the old loans.

How are they taking care of the heat problems with the computers hardware? you can only do so much with silicone, that will be the biggest hurdle I see. I know everything you said is being done to a point, but then there comes the moral and ethical aspect of things, look how much crap got flicked at stem cell research when people found out that they were making embryo's for the cells, what do you think will happen when people find out about the genetic manipulation on the level your talking. You'll have the religious zealots going up in a firestorm to prevent people from accepting it.

I could be wrong but there isn't really that much money in the private sector for computer hardware and software advancements like your talking, government and military I can see having the money for it, hell I wouldn't be surprised if that's where almost all our advancement goes to instead of civilian use.

hell I could see us using Faey type tech if we were able to overcome the heat issue in electronics and buckle down and put out the money for that type of research. I wouldn't be surprised if the gov isn't already. I know there is a company out there that is working on diamond for computer hardware to overcome the heat issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IBwv9enDzg these are the researchers that are looking into diamonds. I thought at one point microsoft was doing the same thing they could still be I'm not sure.

The heating problem can be overcome using many different technologies. That is not the biggest problem. We are still scratching at the surface of what can be done at nano scale. Once we get down to atom and electrons in orbit, we won't need much power. It's getting out the information without changing the data is the problem.

The anti-science freaks are self eliminating problem. You don't take the shot, that's ok, your kids will be stupid, and they will die of old age in pain. That is pretty convincing argument to most people.

Do we have the resources to do all those technologies? Yes we do, as soon as we get rid off zombies and blood sucking social vampires.

The problem is I don't know how to do it, who should do it, and who qualifies for those categories.