questions about were-kin infection

[Saetan]

I know in tower ch. 4 dolanna says:

"But I digress.  It is this inherent magic that causes the condition, Tarrin.  The only thing missing from a human is that magical touch, that essense of magical energy and animal instincts.  That is what is passed on through contact with body fluids.  Once it is introduced into a human, he becomes a Were-creature of the same type that passed it to him.  He gains all of the powers and vulnerabilities of the Were-kin, and he is Were in every aspect.  He is as much Were as the one who bit him; there is no difference between a Were-kin who was born into it and one who was bitten."

what I am curious about is: does the recipient of the were-infection have to be human?   in other words, has any were-kin tested the results of infecting wikuni, selani, vendari,  or humerously, a dragon . . .  after all, if no were-kin has ever tried turning a non-human race, who's to say that they couldn't be turned, maybe dolanna is only going on incomplete information.

also, speaking of vendari were-kin, would such even be possible, I know they are magic resistant, but would they resist the infection, resistant and immune are 2 different things . . .

another thing, if non-human races could become were-kin, what would happen if were-kin of 1 type were to infect a werekin of another type, i.e. were-wolf bite a were-bear

sorry if my questions seem dumb, but, I found the possibilities of non-human were-kin interesting, imagine a vendari were-cat, with the strength of multiple were-cats; or selani were-wolf, with higher speed than werewolves, not to mention proficiency in the Dance, or for a real god laugh, wolf wikuni were-cat, just try to picture it's hybrid form, LOL

[MommyDoom]

Hello Saetan, welcome to the forum!

I'm almost positive the recipient has to be human.  I can't put my finger on the spot right now, but in Axe of the Dwarven King Tarrin fights Allia's father, Kallan and somewhere around there it says that since he wasn't human that Tarrin couldn't turn him Were.

Wish I could be more helpful, but I'm wiped out tonight.

MommyDoom

[The_Namer]

The popular opinion is that only humans can be infected because the first Were-cat was human, but I haven't seen any Fellish confirmation. As for the other Were-kin, the same rule probably applies, but I'd rather it be limited to humans. Just the image of a dragon with Were regeneration and enhanced strength and reflexes gives me a little shiver....

[Fel]

Hate to tell you this, but only humans can become Were.

There's two ways to explain why.  The Long Version and the Short Version.

The Long Version:  Lycanthropy is a magical mutation of the natural order of things...it was an aberration in the All that came about because of a single Druid.

That particular Druid, one of the very first, made a mistake.  As most of you know, making a mistake when using Druidic magic is usually lethal, but when it's not lethal, it can and does have some very unpredictable and very chaotic results...just think back to one of Tarrin's first mistakes as he learned Druidic magic, the water skin that blasted forth a powerful jet of water because he was thirsty and wanted something to drink.  This Druid was monkeying around with the idea of shapeshifting...and screwed it up.

Let's call this Druid Alpha, because the entire race of Lycanthropes issued forth from him.

The problem was, after he managed to fix it and change back, he was infectious.  The magic of the All had altered the fundamental nature of his body, infusing in him what we would now call Lycanthropy, just lacking the animal part to complete the bond.  Druid Alpha passed it to his wife, who passed it to their children, who passed it to the entire village, all in the span of a single day, and each of them transformed into a Were-creature of the same type as the first animal that they touched after being infected.  Because Alpha lived in a tribal hunting village, a vast majority of them transformed into Were-dogs, Were-wolves, and Were-goats.

Most of them either went insane or killed each other, succumbing to the instincts or going mad and flying into murderous rages.  These first Lycanthropes were much like the were-creatures of our legends, rampaging, murderous beasts.

Basicly, it was just a magical spell waiting for a trigger to complete itself.  Anyone who was infected who touched an animal became bonded to that animal, and became a Lycanthrope of that type.

Alpha was almost like Typhoid Mary.  He was a carrier of Lycanthropy, but was immune to it himself.  He couldn't bond and become a Were-kin, but anyone who became infected by him could.

He fled the village and basicly fled across the land, spreading Lycanthropy from southern Darrigon, a kingdom south of Sharadar, all the way to what is now Arkis, where he was killed.

But this wasn't the end of the story.  Just as Alpha could infect humans and cause them to transform into Lycanthropes of the next animal they touched, so too could Alpha infect animals.  The animals that Alpha had infected during his travels, and the animals that scavenged Alpha's body after he died, also became infected, receiving the power of Lycanthropy from the opposite direction.  The humans that came into contact with Alpha became part animal, but the animals that caught it from Alpha became part human.  This process wasn't as immediate as it was for the humans, often taking days or rides, and sometimes even months before the magic completely embraced the animal and enacted the first shapeshifting.  While it was happening, the animal got smarter and smarter, began to become more aware, until it became fully sentient of its newfound intelligence and realized it could shapeshift.  

So, some Lycanthropes were originally human, infected by Alpha, but the true Lycanthrope strains that we all know of today actually evolved from the animals that Alpha infected.  Those human-infected Lycanthropes could not handle the instincts and went mad, becoming murderous monsters, who were quickly killed off before they could spread their disease too far, and so the human-based strain of Lycanthropy was extinguished thousands of years ago, before the Urzani conquered the world.  The animal-based Lycanthropes, however, were quite able to integrate the human part of the bond into themselves and function quite well, since they had been born with those more primitive animal instincts and became blessed with greater intelligence in the exchange.  They organized into their own societies and existed quite harmoniously with the land, keeping their existence a secret from the humans and the Urzani because of the legends of the human-based strains of Lycanthropes who had been savage, murderous beasts.

Simply put, it was much easier to accept for the animal to become more human than it was for the human to become more animal.

Now, what all this means is this:  only the race that originally made up the second part of the symbiotic bond between man and animal that makes a Lycanthrope what it is can be infected by Lycanthropy, way back to when Alpha first was altered by the All and carried the magical condition that came to become Lycanthropy.  Lycanthropes evolved from animals infected by a human, so only humans are able to become Lycanthropes (unless they're born as Lycanthropes, naturally).  A Were-creature can't infect anything but a human, not even an animal of its own basic strain.  A Were-wolf could bite a human and turn him Were, but can not bite a wolf and turn it Were.

Now, what about human-based races, like the Aeradalla, who started out human but evolved into something else?

Nope.  ;)

They may have evolved from humans, but they're NOT humans, just as gnomes are not dwarves, and Selani and Sha'Kar and Wikuni are not elves.

That's the long version.

The Short Version:  Humans only, because I said so.  If you want an explanation, read the Long Version.  ;)

[The_Namer]

Thanks for the info! Once again, I'm impressed by the depth of history and logical explanations for everyday things in your world. On a slightly related note, where do other supernatural races come from, such as Faeries or Dryads?

[locolobo1999]

I had a question about that to. What would happen if say in a battle that someone got turned but there was other blood mixed in with the werekins? as in a dragon or something like that?

[AdamX]

Dragons don't carry the magical condition of Lycanthropy, so the human would be unaffected. However, it would be interesting to see what would happen if the blood of say, a Were-Wolf and a Were-Cat were equally mixed and then introduced to a human.

[Spec8472]

it would be interesting to see what would happen if the blood of say, a Were-Wolf and a Were-Cat were equally mixed and then introduced to a human.

I get this mental image of some poor sods head exploding when I read that.

[Shadowhawk]

(...) They organized into their own societies and existed quite harmoniously with the land, keeping their existence a secret from the humans and the Urzani because of the legends of the human-based strains of Lycanthropes who had been savage, murderous beasts.

And how this is not in conflict with Triana story, namely first Were (turned Were) going rampant and extending their ranks by biting humans? And the rebellion against the parents, with Triana killing her mother (if I remember correctly)?

It is quite understendable story. First Were was human-animal hybrid, so only humans can become Were. But it does not explain whence Were's Regeneration came from...

So, was that story spinned in a spur of the question, or what?


I wonder how other Fae-da'Nar, like Centaurs for example, or fearie came int Sennadar. And we have next to nothing about their dark cousins, Shunned (later they got Sennadar name which I don't remember at the moment), like vampires and lamias. Inherently evil races, with no exceptions? Very RPG-ish, not very realistic...

Modified: Shunned == Fae-da'Kii. Thanks Fel.

Modified: The name Fae-da'Kii first appear I think in Jegojah as Revenant telling Kravon plans.

[Fel]

The creation of the Lycanthropes happened LONG before what happened to the Were-cats, Shadowhawk...I'm talking before the Blood War, even before the Urzani domination of the known world.  Were-kin have existed on Sennadar for some ten thousand years.

What happened to the Were-cats was because of the Breaking...I think I explained that once before.  The shattering of magic on Sennadar had some effects on creatures who were innately magical, and among the Were-kin, the Were-cats were the most sensitive.  The Breaking twisted the breed, changed them, causing all Were-cats born after the Breaking to be the way Triana is.

Triana was the first of these new Were-cats, and most of you know the basic story behind that.  The original Were-cats feared their dangerous children and tried to destroy them, but they were no match for their much more savage offspring.  The new Were-cats killed off their predecessors and took their place in Fae-da'Nar.

Most of the other races of Fae-da'Nar and Fae-da'Kii were created by either magic or the All in one way or another, sometimes deliberately, sometimes by accident.  Faeries, for example, were spun from the All spontaneously when a need for them became apparent in the grand scheme of things.  Centaurs were just one of quite a few new creatures that came about because of the Breaking...the Were-cats weren't the only ones affected by that event.

[Shadowhawk]

Thanks Fel for the answers. I've forgotten that Werecats are different from other Were-kin (e.g. they are all feral to some extent, human form is no longer natural to them, and they are tougher than other Were-Kin), and that story of Were-kin needs not to be the (all) story of Werecats.

Still the question whence Were regeneration came remains. Was it caused by Breaking, or do the original before-Breaking Were-kin were regenerating?

I wonder what is the story behind lamias (human-snake (female-human - snake?) hybrid): some kind of failed dark Wizard experiment? And what about vampires: do their condition is contageous and can be transferred somewhat like Were-kin infection (but maybe the transfer of significant portion of blood to the person being turned is needed), are they skin and eyes photosensitive (or photoreactive to the point of burning to ash when exposed to UV light), can they be harmed only by wood or is it [also] silver, do they die only by decapitation, do they need to dring blood to survive, are all of them evil (excluding Hunger)?

[The_Namer]

From Honor and Blood, chp. 35, "the woman-topped beasts are called Lamias. The snake-creatures are called Naga." So lamias are probably more like centaurs; in most mythology I've read, lamias have a woman's head and torso which merge with a lion's body, though their origin is of course unknown to me. As for the regeneration, that is common to all Were-kin, it's just that Werecats possess it in all forms due to the Breaking. The vampire queries are interesting, though.

[Shadowhawk]

From Honor and Blood, chp. 35, "the woman-topped beasts are called Lamias. The snake-creatures are called Naga." So lamias are probably more like centaurs; in most mythology I've read, lamias have a woman's head and torso which merge with a lion's body, though their origin is of course unknown to me.

I know only of Lamias with woman head (and maybe torso) and body of snake, king kobra if without full human torso. Usually with human-like hands. Poisonous. Evil.

But in most mythologies Naga aren't evil (well, at least in eastern; the same mythologies where dragon's aren't greedy (and maybe evil))!

As for the regeneration, that is common to all Were-kin, it's just that Werecats possess it in all forms due to the Breaking. The vampire queries are interesting, though.

But asking All for shapeshifting doesn't necessary give you regeneration, which is not connected with shapeshifting, nor inherent to animals. The question is: do Were-kin had regeneration from the beginning, or do they received it during Breaking (or maybe by some other accident)? And if they have it from the beginning, how come that All give regeneration to Alpha (along with why they are vulnerable to silver of all metals; not platinum, not gold, not mithrill, not iron)?

[locolobo1999]

The Reason that it is silver is something in the metal disrupts the flow of the magic that causes the regeneration (I think )

[The_Namer]

After doing a quick search, I found you're quite correct: quite a few images and info on serpent-lamias, with my original idea present, but in the minority. Maybe it's a term used for any kind of animal/woman but with its roots in the snake? The naga issue might be a result of many books and gamers portraying them as evil, as well as the traditionsl snake=bad concept, but I recall (though I'm no expert on the subject) eastern nagas being semi-divine but somewhat dangerous to mortals in general, though not truly malicious, with certain specific nagas actually evil. I've been thinking about the regeneration, and the closest I can get is that since Were-kin (or at least Were-cats, since I'm not as sure about the other species) are constantly in a limited contact with the All via their altered nature, the enhanced strength and regeneration sort of bleed through the connection. That makes some degree of sense, I think, but doesn't help with the pre/post Breaking part. Maybe Fel could clear up the issue?