7 races in the Imperium - 9 other races outside the Imperium

[Mizriath]

Hmm I did remember FEL mention that there are 7 distinct races in the Imperium with the Humans.

Faey
Makati - Builders
Stupid Giants named Gorgons
Aquaman named Menoda
Big Insects named Izziks
Catlike Farmers named Parri
Human/Terrans

In Chapter 16 ... Moridons ... are they not a race of creatures different? Probably they are not a subject of the imperium like the skaa.

Well Kimdori, I did ponder whether they are a race of creatures. They are not recognised because they are virus/virii created by Faey (Karinnes). Probably they are not recognised as a race as they do not have a home planet.

There is also another race in which the Makati and Faey are allied to fight. Was it another giant like creatures.

Trying to establish the number of creatures / races in the epic.

And having fun.

[michaelsuave]

You raised a point about the Moridon's possibly being outside the imperium. I wonder if there is any relationship between the Moridon's being outside of the imperium, Jason getting sick on Moridon, and Jason learning from the Kimdori that his house that was neutral with the faey houses had enemies outside of the imperium. Could the moridon's want Jason and his house permenantly dead? Remember, the security on moridon is supposedly immenitrable, maybe it wasn't an outside assassin, but a moridon assassin?

~Michael

[Hearly]

You raised a point about the Moridon's possibly being outside the imperium. I wonder if there is any relationship between the Moridon's being outside of the imperium, Jason getting sick on Moridon, and Jason learning from the Kimdori that his house that was neutral with the faey houses had enemies outside of the imperium. Could the moridon's want Jason and his house permenantly dead? Remember, the security on moridon is supposedly immenitrable, maybe it wasn't an outside assassin, but a moridon assassin?

~Michael

That just seems like a stretch, I mean if they wanted to kill'm, wouldn't it have been easier just to hire assasins to do it, than create a bio-weapon and only put it on there Home planet?

[michaelsuave]

You raised a point about the Moridon's possibly being outside the imperium. I wonder if there is any relationship between the Moridon's being outside of the imperium, Jason getting sick on Moridon, and Jason learning from the Kimdori that his house that was neutral with the faey houses had enemies outside of the imperium. Could the moridon's want Jason and his house permenantly dead? Remember, the security on moridon is supposedly immenitrable, maybe it wasn't an outside assassin, but a moridon assassin?

~Michael

That just seems like a stretch, I mean if they wanted to kill'm, wouldn't it have been easier just to hire assasins to do it, than create a bio-weapon and only put it on there Home planet?

But we know that the bioweapon was created and placed on their home world. It was placed there to kill the original lord of the Karrine, and she did die from it. Fel also went into great length about the protections that the planet had and the security in place on it. My theory wasn't that they were gunning for Jason, but that the Moridon's possibly wanted house Karrine destroyed, they probably didn't even know Jason was a member of the long lost house. the main point is, we know the bio-weapon was put on the Moridon homeworld, it says so in chapter 16. Easier or not, that is what happened. Who put it there is the question, as we know that house Karrine was the target, and house karrine had no enemies inside the Faey imperium, it came from outside the imperium. And Mizriath just addressed the fact that the Morridons are outside the imperium. So it logically leads to the possibility that it was the Morridons who were an enemy of house karrine at one time or another. As per what other species outside of the Morridons and skaag are outside of the imperium, I don't recall.

~Michael

[Mizriath]

I agree with Michaelsuave.

Moridon being outside the Imperium could be one of the Karinne enemies. The Faey it seems are also fearful of the Moridon. How the Moridon being the Bankers of the Imperium will be a mystery.

[Mizriath]

Imperium Races

Faey
Makati - Builders
Gorgons - Stupid Giants
Menoda - Aquaman
Izziks - Big Insects
Parri - Catlike Farmers
Human/Terrans

Known races Outside Imperium

Skaa
Moridon
Jakkan
Kimdori
Umuri

I guess the list will grow.

[Fiferguy]

I agree with Michaelsuave.

Moridon being outside the Imperium could be one of the Karinne enemies. The Faey it seems are also fearful of the Moridon. How the Moridon being the Bankers of the Imperium will be a mystery.

I disagree. I mean, think about it. The one thing that the Moridons do is banking. If we look at Earth equivalents--Switzerland, The Caymen Islands, etc.--they're renowned for their neutrality. It would be very bad for business if people couldn't trust you. I don't think that Moridon is an enemy of anyone. If they were, they wouldn't be trusted enough to give Diamond accounts--the most secure and secret accounts in the Imperium--to anyone. It could very well be that they are outside the Imperium politically, kind of like Switzerland. Always neutral, even during World War II.

Besides, it would be rather easy to sneak some sort of pathogen like that onto the planet, despite planetary security that the Moridons have. All you would need to do is palm some sort of aerosol canister and go there on legitimate business. It could be disguised as a perfume dispenser, and merely sprayed onto the Faey who brought it. Remember, women are the dominant in Faey society, so it makes sense that the assassin would be a woman. So it wouldn't be that far of a stretch. And she could've gone to Moridon over a thousand years ago with this virus, genetically engineered to lay dormant until it found the DNA sequence it was designed to attack. Since the original noble was attacked and died, the virus was merely forgotten about. But it sat there dormant until Jason, who had a similar enough DNA to the original target, was infected. Luckily for him, he had three very capable doctors with him that could save his life, and Kimdori that liked him enough to supply the cure to his doctors.

Anyway, that's just my thoughts...

[michaelsuave]

I agree with Michaelsuave.

Moridon being outside the Imperium could be one of the Karinne enemies. The Faey it seems are also fearful of the Moridon. How the Moridon being the Bankers of the Imperium will be a mystery.

I disagree. I mean, think about it. The one thing that the Moridons do is banking. If we look at Earth equivalents--Switzerland, The Caymen Islands, etc.--they're renowned for their neutrality. It would be very bad for business if people couldn't trust you. I don't think that Moridon is an enemy of anyone. If they were, they wouldn't be trusted enough to give Diamond accounts--the most secure and secret accounts in the Imperium--to anyone. It could very well be that they are outside the Imperium politically, kind of like Switzerland. Always neutral, even during World War II.

Besides, it would be rather easy to sneak some sort of pathogen like that onto the planet, despite planetary security that the Moridons have. All you would need to do is palm some sort of aerosol canister and go there on legitimate business. It could be disguised as a perfume dispenser, and merely sprayed onto the Faey who brought it. Remember, women are the dominant in Faey society, so it makes sense that the assassin would be a woman. So it wouldn't be that far of a stretch. And she could've gone to Moridon over a thousand years ago with this virus, genetically engineered to lay dormant until it found the DNA sequence it was designed to attack. Since the original noble was attacked and died, the virus was merely forgotten about. But it sat there dormant until Jason, who had a similar enough DNA to the original target, was infected. Luckily for him, he had three very capable doctors with him that could save his life, and Kimdori that liked him enough to supply the cure to his doctors.

Anyway, that's just my thoughts...

I see your point on the ease of getting the contaminant into Morridon. But it would have had to be everywhere in order to infect Jason when he arrived. I still think it is really hard to explain how the morridons, whose security scans include a molicule level scan of everything coming into their banks, would not know that a foreign or synthetic element is present in the air, an element that isn't supposed to be there and that is detrimental to them having high paying customers.

Also, this still leaves the questions of who Karinne's enemies outside of the imperium are. We know that the Jakan were willing to enter karis space if the marines and Jason were in trouble, so they probably weren't enemies of Karinne, and we know the Umuri went to war on the behalf of Karinne when the other houses toasted Karis. So both of those aren't enemies.

Here is a weird thought... maybe the kimdori were in fact the enemies? Hear me out. So far, from what Jason has been told, I still don't think he has information that will make him hate the Kimdori. But what if there is other information, information implicating the Kimdori in backstabbing the Karinne? We just don't know yet who the unknown enemy is, but we do know that house karinne had enemies outside of the imperium. And there is a high probability that if they hated Karinne when Karinne had no interaction with outsiders inside or outside the imperium, that they will still hate karinne now when they are supposedly whiped out...

~Michael

[Fel]

This question will be answered on Monday. So be patient.

[Hearly]

This question will be answered on Monday. So be patient.

heh, Fel, your Evil...

[Sangoma]

What if the bio engineered virus is still on Moridon because it's desquised as something non lethal and mundane-like the pollen (spelling?) of a flower. Who ever assassinated the Karrine wouldn't go and say "Hey I did it that way so you can get rid of that flower and all the others are safe".

[Fiferguy]

I see your point on the ease of getting the contaminant into Morridon. But it would have had to be everywhere in order to infect Jason when he arrived. I still think it is really hard to explain how the morridons, whose security scans include a molicule level scan of everything coming into their banks, would not know that a foreign or synthetic element is present in the air, an element that isn't supposed to be there and that is detrimental to them having high paying customers.

Also, this still leaves the questions of who Karinne's enemies outside of the imperium are. We know that the Jakan were willing to enter karis space if the marines and Jason were in trouble, so they probably weren't enemies of Karinne, and we know the Umuri went to war on the behalf of Karinne when the other houses toasted Karis. So both of those aren't enemies.

Here is a weird thought... maybe the kimdori were in fact the enemies? Hear me out. So far, from what Jason has been told, I still don't think he has information that will make him hate the Kimdori. But what if there is other information, information implicating the Kimdori in backstabbing the Karinne? We just don't know yet who the unknown enemy is, but we do know that house karinne had enemies outside of the imperium. And there is a high probability that if they hated Karinne when Karinne had no interaction with outsiders inside or outside the imperium, that they will still hate karinne now when they are supposedly whiped out...

~Michael

Not necessarily. It was specifically designed to attack a single person's DNA, meaning it had no danger to anyone else of the time. If it was designed to live for only a few days, but multiply before it died, it could last indefinitely. The next generation would live for a few days, then the generation would die, but its offspring would live on. It would stay in a small enough population to remain undetected, yet remain in the air until a viable host--the original Karinne noble and Jason, who shared enough DNA to make him susceptible--arrived.

And as far as detecting it, I doubt the Moridons would have noticed it. Remember, their entire security is based on computer security, not on anything else. The privacy and secrecy of their clients and their accounts, which is all on computer. And, in the story, not even a thousand years of advancement in medical technology could detect it immediately, and by that point it wouldn't matter. It would take literally seconds for someone to land on the planet and disperse the agent. And by that time, it would be too late to detect it, as it would already be in the air. But the entire Moridon planet security is based on keeping their computers secure, not on screening every microbe that comes in. The screening of their body was only to open a Diamond Prime account, not to get to the planet. If someone needed to land and pick up a package of circuit boards, for example, the could land and set off the biological agent without ever leaving the landing pad. I can come up with a dozen ways of sneaking the agent onto the planet, so that's not really a problem. Just a lot of paperwork.

I still wonder who the enemies of the Karrine were, but personally I think it was another Faey noble that planted the virus.

And in the book, it says that the Jakkan COULD come and get them, if they were close enough. But it's not like they had a fleet of Jakkan ships waiting to come to their rescue...

I don't think that the Kimdori are enemies per se. I think it's more like this: the Kimdori helped Karrine engineer their future generations, which caused them to turn more and more toward their two pronged project. After a while, because of this, the Karrine turned their backs on the politics of the Empire, and that caused both sides in the civil war to attack them. So I think that since they inadvertently caused the destruction of an entire house, one that they considered friends, they're trying to atone for that.

[Mizriath]

Kimdori being full enemies of Faey - definitely not.

Kimdori having an agenda that benefits their race as a whole. Definitely. More that they may need the project where they can telepathically communicate with machines. The Kimdori as a race may have stagnated or probably unable to procreate because of some genetic defects. The Kimdori could be steadfast in their objective and not wiling to break promises and debts until they are able to achieve their objective.

This objective may finally run counter to the Imperium. Such as Kimdori may need the computer so that they can invade every Faey mind as the Kimdori are also telepathics.

[SYED]

thetre was a simple map of where races where in coparison, could some one link it here, i cant find it

[Phantom]

I see your point on the ease of getting the contaminant into Morridon. But it would have had to be everywhere in order to infect Jason when he arrived. I still think it is really hard to explain how the morridons, whose security scans include a molicule level scan of everything coming into their banks, would not know that a foreign or synthetic element is present in the air, an element that isn't supposed to be there and that is detrimental to them having high paying customers.

Also, this still leaves the questions of who Karinne's enemies outside of the imperium are. We know that the Jakan were willing to enter karis space if the marines and Jason were in trouble, so they probably weren't enemies of Karinne, and we know the Umuri went to war on the behalf of Karinne when the other houses toasted Karis. So both of those aren't enemies.

Here is a weird thought... maybe the kimdori were in fact the enemies? Hear me out. So far, from what Jason has been told, I still don't think he has information that will make him hate the Kimdori. But what if there is other information, information implicating the Kimdori in backstabbing the Karinne? We just don't know yet who the unknown enemy is, but we do know that house karinne had enemies outside of the imperium. And there is a high probability that if they hated Karinne when Karinne had no interaction with outsiders inside or outside the imperium, that they will still hate karinne now when they are supposedly whiped out...

~Michael

Not necessarily. It was specifically designed to attack a single person's DNA, meaning it had no danger to anyone else of the time. If it was designed to live for only a few days, but multiply before it died, it could last indefinitely. The next generation would live for a few days, then the generation would die, but its offspring would live on. It would stay in a small enough population to remain undetected, yet remain in the air until a viable host--the original Karinne noble and Jason, who shared enough DNA to make him susceptible--arrived.

And as far as detecting it, I doubt the Moridons would have noticed it. Remember, their entire security is based on computer security, not on anything else. The privacy and secrecy of their clients and their accounts, which is all on computer. And, in the story, not even a thousand years of advancement in medical technology could detect it immediately, and by that point it wouldn't matter. It would take literally seconds for someone to land on the planet and disperse the agent. And by that time, it would be too late to detect it, as it would already be in the air. But the entire Moridon planet security is based on keeping their computers secure, not on screening every microbe that comes in. The screening of their body was only to open a Diamond Prime account, not to get to the planet. If someone needed to land and pick up a package of circuit boards, for example, the could land and set off the biological agent without ever leaving the landing pad. I can come up with a dozen ways of sneaking the agent onto the planet, so that's not really a problem. Just a lot of paperwork.

I still wonder who the enemies of the Karrine were, but personally I think it was another Faey noble that planted the virus.

And in the book, it says that the Jakkan COULD come and get them, if they were close enough. But it's not like they had a fleet of Jakkan ships waiting to come to their rescue...

I don't think that the Kimdori are enemies per se. I think it's more like this: the Kimdori helped Karrine engineer their future generations, which caused them to turn more and more toward their two pronged project. After a while, because of this, the Karrine turned their backs on the politics of the Empire, and that caused both sides in the civil war to attack them. So I think that since they inadvertently caused the destruction of an entire house, one that they considered friends, they're trying to atone for that.

Fel answered this.....in chapter 18

Well, that explains why Kiaari always says she’s doing what she was hired to do, and would never tell me what to do, only suggest, he mused.
But I think they broke those rules for me. Miaari sent one of her clan Elders to cure me of a disease I contracted on Moridon.

Ah, the bio-agent.

That is what brought the Kimdori and the Karinnes together, Jason.

How so?

Well, the Moridon, being who they are, saw the Kimdori as a threat to their security. So, they engineered a complex molecule bioagent to attack any Kimdori that visited Moridon. It was effective, but what the Moridons probably did not realize was that it took a long time for the agent to do its work on a Kimdori, and that those Kimdori infected by the agent were contagious.

To make the story a short one, it literally threatened their race with eradication.

I am sure the Moridons did not intend this, the computer mused. It is not their nature.

The Kimdori came to the Karinnes in desperation, seeking help to find a cure, for it was well known that Karinne science and their geneticists were among the finest in the galaxy.

The Karinnes found a cure for the bioagent and saved the Kimdori race.

Since that day, the Kimdori have been the staunchest allies of the House of Karinne.

And, as I think you have deduced, the Generations are also vulnerable to that agent.

The segments of Kimdori DNA it attacks are also part of your DNA, and to the agent, you look like a Kimdori. It killed several Generations that visited Moridon until they were able to develop a vaccine.

Maeda Karinne.

She was one such victim, yes. But there were others that did not become common knowledge.

Okay, that just answered a lot of questions. That was why the Kimdori were so hell-bent to help him, it was why they were going to such extemes. Not only was he considered family, he was among the last of a branch of the Kimdori “family” that was wiped out. And that loyalty was instilled by the act of Karinne doctors, who had helped the Kimdori find a cure for a deadly disease.

That was how they knew how to cure him.

And the Kimdori knew everything, Jason realized.

Everything that the Generations knew, the Kimdori knew, the computer, Cybi, affirmed.

So the Real answer is it was a Security feature of the Banking planet Morridon to keep the Kimdori from breaking their security.

I wonder who they got to engineer this and how they ever got a sample of Kimdori DNA to do it also...



Phantom