Revolution Chapter 10 (Spoilers)

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Wolfee
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Re: Revolution Chapter 10 (Spoilers)

Post by Wolfee » Sat Jan 04, 2020 4:50 am

Not a ID wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:48 pm
Wolfee wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:55 am
Not a ID wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:28 pm
What sapient race, aside from the Pari, would want to be vaccinated against possibly becoming a Generation at some point in the future?

That and Fel has already covered in story why a vaccine hasn't happened, and basically why work on one has stopped.
One whose religion described such powers as coming from the "devil" for example.
The only group that claimed such a position was the Consortium, but it was a propoganda claim made to try to rally others against the Karrines. The Kimdori haven't mentioned anyone who is actually so inclined, and I'd think they'd be known about as potential long term threats to the House Karrine otherwise. Doubly so now that there is a retro-virus making new Generations by the billions.

Otherwise, it's a bunch of people being paranoid about being left behind the on power curve if they don't become Generations.

Now that paranoia, in light of the outbreak, could very well result in such a religious movement getting some serious momentum behind them, but it's unlikely that any such organization exists at this time, certainly not at sufficient scale as to hold control of an inter-stellar nation.
Please note I preference my answer with "for example." Don't ask redundant questions nor disqualify an answer someone expended effort and bother upon your behalf to provide, simply because you are seeking to pontificate upon your own wisdom, intelligence and preferred interpretation of someone else's work. I wasn't the one who asked the question, merely the one who provided one of the obvious answers. History has shown that regardless of education, technology and society that religion continue to play a significant role in the decision of individuals and society as a whole even if the individuals and society believe that they have risen above the primitive concepts of religion and social moray's.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 10 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Sat Jan 04, 2020 8:49 am

In this case, Vaccination would be a rather permanent solution(for at least that person) for something they might change their mind on later. I can completely understand opt-outs.

I do fully believe there will likely be longer-term blow-back issues from religious or simply "traditionalist" corners with regards to retrovirus. Mostly among the uninfected(but possibly not exclusively so). But I'd still stand by the claim that among the leadership in the known sphere of influence for the Karrines, there are nations led under ostensibly religious tenets. But those nations are also rather flexible, as warranted in an interstellar space-age society. The Haumda will be the more immediate litmus test for this, as alluded to earlier with regards to their omens and portents. That roughly 20 million of them are already going to become Generations immediately puts religion against the retrovirus, it just remains to be seen if they embrace it, or fight it.

But going back to real-politic with respect to the retrovirus, we have the first book of Subjugation to invoke. Several species undertook deliberate genetic engineering projects in order to create their own telepaths, often with limited success(many species have a low single digit percentile of telepaths). Knowing they're living in a Galaxy with telepaths all over the place, and that there now is a "foolproof" way of creating a lot of them(if anything, the problem is only creating the number you intend to create), and not just any telepath, but a Generation to boot. Most species will be jumping on the bandwagon either in part(only some get intentionally infected), or in full(only some opt-out).

The ones who don't would basically have to be either extreme isolationists, or "purists" of some stripe in their outlook. In either case, neither group is likely to have been doing much business with House Karrine, or anyone else for that matter.

The closest thing to that which has been mentioned is the Jun, only their outlook doesn't quite skew that way. Although their reaction to it will also be interesting, as they too are deeply religious in their outlook. But even they have acknowledged the utility of telepathy, something their military bend on things would likely immediately focus in on, they've seen both what a Generation can do, and what the Faey mindstrikers could achieve before they had a boost from the retrovirus.

Some may resist any members of their race being infected, they may even try to fight the ones who were/resent it being set loose, but most will be trying to get at least some of their people on that proverbial train.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 10 (Spoilers)

Post by kyli » Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:58 pm

Not a ID wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:48 pm
Wolfee wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:55 am
Not a ID wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:28 pm
What sapient race, aside from the Pari, would want to be vaccinated against possibly becoming a Generation at some point in the future?

That and Fel has already covered in story why a vaccine hasn't happened, and basically why work on one has stopped.
One whose religion described such powers as coming from the "devil" for example.
The only group that claimed such a position was the Consortium, but it was a propoganda claim made to try to rally others against the Karrines. The Kimdori haven't mentioned anyone who is actually so inclined, and I'd think they'd be known about as potential long term threats to the House Karrine otherwise. Doubly so now that there is a retro-virus making new Generations by the billions.

Otherwise, it's a bunch of people being paranoid about being left behind the on power curve if they don't become Generations.

Now that paranoia, in light of the outbreak, could very well result in such a religious movement getting some serious momentum behind them, but it's unlikely that any such organization exists at this time, certainly not at sufficient scale as to hold control of an inter-stellar nation.
The most likely candidates for such a movement in sci-fi are humans. But they are now all Generations.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold, and revenge is sweet, so for all intents and purposes, revenge is ice cream."

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Re: Revolution Chapter 10 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:18 pm

kyli wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 10:58 pm
Not a ID wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 11:48 pm
Wolfee wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:55 am
One whose religion described such powers as coming from the "devil" for example.
The only group that claimed such a position was the Consortium, but it was a propoganda claim made to try to rally others against the Karrines. The Kimdori haven't mentioned anyone who is actually so inclined, and I'd think they'd be known about as potential long term threats to the House Karrine otherwise. Doubly so now that there is a retro-virus making new Generations by the billions.

Otherwise, it's a bunch of people being paranoid about being left behind the on power curve if they don't become Generations.

Now that paranoia, in light of the outbreak, could very well result in such a religious movement getting some serious momentum behind them, but it's unlikely that any such organization exists at this time, certainly not at sufficient scale as to hold control of an inter-stellar nation.
The most likely candidates for such a movement in sci-fi are humans. But they are now all Generations.
I wouldn't count the Humans out in their ability to create a large cult decrying the retrovirus all the same. They just won't be able to call all Generations evil abominations. As they'd be denouncing themselves in turn. The fact that the Humans and Faey on Terra didn't get a (meaningful) choice on the matter also leaves open the chance for resentment regarding new powers/abilities and risks they didn't sign up for. The Karrines will be "an obvious target" as they were the only Generations to start with in the first place, without them, there would have been no retrovirus.

Others will likely attribute their ire towards the proper responsible parties, when/if one is identified with proof being made publicly available. But as we're talking about humans here, there will likely be plenty of conspiracy theories flying around all the same. Although those guys aren't likely to ever reach the level where Jason himself needs to be overly concerned about them while living on Karis.

The Chapter 8 "crusaders" are also an option, but going by the phrasing of the Allu's warning, every sentient race in the Milky Way would have been considered an abomination in any case:
“There is a highly hostile race that dominates the largest galaxy in this cluster that has intergalactic capability, their perimeter was built ages ago by a coalition of races within the galaxy to prevent them from attacking. They say that all civilizations in the galaxies surrounding the hub galaxy in this cluster have faced attack from the enemy. The Allu say the hostile race are religious zealots that believe that all other forms of intelligent life are abominations that must be destroyed. The Allu say that their galaxy unified into a single government to answer that threat, long ago. The entire galaxy is a single empire.”
That Galaxy being the one with the Resonant Telepathy technology. So there will likely be a later round with the Allu's historic enemy, given we're reasonably certain that the Karrines will be seeking that Resonant tech, but that fight is undoubtedly beyond the scope of Revolution itself.

A religious opposition angle as per Wolfee's post is certainly possible, eventually with respect to the people in the Milky Way. But i don't see it as being overly concerning from the onset. Most of the opposition that will be coming will involve more secular considerations, like what the Subrians are pondering at this time.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 10 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Mon Jan 06, 2020 12:04 am

The "other item" we haven't touched on from Chapter 10 just yet, which has be mildly annoying for Fel as well, as I think he was half-way hoping someone might find a way to solve the problem for him. There is a vocabulary challenge in the making.
“Krazrou…has a point,” Sk’Vrae injected. “If this is true, that Generations can spontaneously produce the retrovirus, then we would be looking at two options. Either walling ourselves off from the universe, or accepting that eventually, perhaps next year or perhaps in ten thousand years, it happens again and new Generations are born from another virus. And that eventually, the virus will become a pandemic that will sweep across the galaxy. Walling ourselves off from the universe is not a realistic alternative,” she said calmly. “Not when the universe now has such a vested interest in keeping us from isolating ourselves. So I think we should discuss the idea of a summit, with the objective of ensuring that the Generations do not become the enemy of the unchanged. After all, they will eventually become us, so we should not fight them.”

“Okay, that is the creepiest freakin’ thing I have ever heard you say, Sk’Vrae,” Jason grunted. “The unchanged? They’re not eggs, or raw material! They’re people! Giving them a label like that suggests that they’re not fine just the way they are! We are not better than them, Sk’Vrae, we are simply different! Good grief, it’s that kind of attitude I’ve worked my ass off over the last fourteen years to prevent! It’s that mentality that made me glad the Merranes destroyed my ancestors, because the idea that they were superior to the rest of the Faey had taken hold of the Generations of that time!”
You have a paradigm of thought where you're basically looking at the Generations, and the not-yet-Generations. Alternately, Generations(which is now a huge group), and non-Generations. But it still comes back to Jason's complaint about "Giving them a label like that suggests that they’re not fine just the way they are! We are not better than them, Sk’Vrae, we are simply different!"

So how do you acknowledge the difference exists, without either implying they're "incomplete" or even "deficient" (in a way they can "correct" no less) if a person/race chose to not transition to being a Generation?

How do you also go about doing so without creating imagery or other associations that religious nut-jobs across the Galaxy wouldn't find a way to latch onto in order to make it the new "mark of the beast" as well?

Of course, the "walling off" and going into seclusion as Sk'Vrae mentioned(and Jason has even contemplated) might need to work in reverse as well. Any race that doesn't want to have their entire race potentially transition as the Faey, Terrans, Urumi, and Kirri have done will now henceforth need to consider having "protocols" in place with respect to any and all trade that passes through a shared atmosphere with where a Generation is known to be present. The Generations are now the penultimate Typhoid Mary, only unlike Typhoid Mary, you could go years, decades, or even centuries between "communication events" taking place, but once it happens...

I guess it is a good thing bionoid's are so common these days. Resonant Tech may help things even further if it can give the Bionoids the ability to telepathically communicate with others near it, rather than being stuck with either verbal communication or commune. Edit: Because otherwise visiting Earth while unprotected, or any other Generation occupied world for that matter is to risk becoming one yourself. Bionoids, rather than environmental suits work around that issue to some degree. Stay in a nice safe, and secure facility in orbit with your body, with no Generations around, and use a Bionoid for everything else earth-side. Remember, Karis and Terra alike both have Kirri symbioties in their environment, and they're a vector too, so now the Kirri Symbiotes are highly problematic for anyone trying to not get up in a future retrovirus outbreak. Bionoids don't need to worry about getting you sick, and don't make you have to spend weeks at a time in quarantine, where you'd wish you had a Bionoid anyway. /end edit

Which I guess is the other "mystery box" in regards to that particular tech, if they can incorporate resonate tech into a Bionoid, will that possibly change how the bionoids "feel" to the telepaths around them?

I guess the more extreme iteration of it on further thought, is considering the proliferation of cyberjacks, could the Resonant tech be incorporated into a cyberjack gestalt and used by a non-telepath to do (some) telepathic things?

Obviously Fel has established some of it is literally physiological, as witnessed by response times for a telepath vs non-telepath. So there likely would be a speed/"bandwidth" constraint in play at that point. But cyberjack gestalt's could already commune with the assistance of biogenics(or gravband, etc). So why wouldn't a 'jacked individual be able to do the same with the resonant technology?

The real question would be if it can do more than just communication. Much like while a 'jacked person could use commune, they can't use the cyberjack to merge with a tactical gestalt and boost any other abilities they might have. So while they might be able to talk to, or even "listen in" on telepathic chatter with resonant tech, that doesn't mean they can shield their mind, attack others psychically, etc. Although I'd suspect someone clever enough might be able reproduce "the biogenic effect" for Generations with telepaths if they hit the right combination of things. Even if the applications are more defensive in nature, for varying definitions of "defensive" as witnessed with armor and shields. If it can understand and communicate with telepaths, it can probably give telepaths a solid case of "being bothered" if somebody at 3D decided to be naughty.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 10 (Spoilers)

Post by Wolfee » Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:53 am

Fel, I have been wondering how certain projects are going... How has Myleena's modifications to the portal system been going? Has house Karinne come up with a defense against the use of wormholes to circumvent the interdictor? How has the company been doing in Andromeda, any news on that side of things? Looking forward to the next chapter(s)

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Re: Revolution Chapter 10 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:12 pm

Wolfee wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 3:53 am
Fel, I have been wondering how certain projects are going... How has Myleena's modifications to the portal system been going? Has house Karinne come up with a defense against the use of wormholes to circumvent the interdictor? How has the company been doing in Andromeda, any news on that side of things? Looking forward to the next chapter(s)
Project H probably just has further iterations of improvements to power efficiency since the last specific update on it in Chapter 3(/2019). 3 years without a breakthrough is hardly shocking given what they're trying to do with the portals as they don't have prior Karrine research to speed things along. Project H was referenced in Chapter 8, in the form of Myli being ordered to take some time off from the project so they could explore the issue with malfunctioning equipment in Cybi's equipment stack... But that appears to have been side-tracked by the retrovirus outbreak that happened later in the same chapter. I imagine Myleena may have "a breakthrough" after spending a few weeks pursuing other projects just to allow her to come at it with a refreshed outlook, but I have doubts; that isn't to say something external couldn't change the status quo on that during the current book.

But the bigger question at this time is to when they're going to see about pursuing the Cybi investigation. As we're now well over a month later since the outbreak started on Karis, "emergency mode" should be wrapping up on Karis, even if Jason is still contending with Galactic political fallout.

Galaxy Express was visited in Chapter 6, (July 2022, just 3 months prior to chapter 10) and it is doing very well, and the Syndicate has known for some time who is operating that company.

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