Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

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kyli
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Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by kyli » Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:47 am

The dream wasn't mentioned but I'm now almost certain the Dragon is the FMS. Here's to hoping the dream will change some more.

All the Terrans are now Generations and therefore powerful telepaths. I wonder how Kevin Ball will feel about that. Hope we see a little more of him.

I was actually hoping the virus got loose in the Confederation. While it would be easy for it to mutate into something deadly, the solution is actually insanely easy. Fel just needs to write the story where it doesn't mutate. :lol: If it had gotten out, it would protect Terrans, Feay, and the Karinnes from being kidnapped because they were Generations, and Jason could focus on protecting Biogenics. That is what truly makes Generations insanely powerful. And its harder to abuse the power of a Generation if everyone is a Generation. The issues would come in when abusing uninfected races. Maybe it will still get out. :twisted:
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Re: Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by Chasm » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:12 am

The obsession to keep Generations restricted to Karis seems to be a bit obsolete when most of the Faey Empire consists of them.
Generations that outnumber the House by orders of magnitude and that Jason has no authority over.

In Jasons shoes I'd probably try to convert the remaining House with the public reveal of the Generations virus by the FMS. At that point the cat is truly out of the bag. Well, at least the species that are already affected. (Kicking off another round of opt-ins.) Last thing I'd want is a two tier society where the "normies" of a species feel left behind once the dust settles because of restrictions that always were a pipe dream once the virus activated.
The Parri obviously have decided that they want to part of that, so it did not happen. :)

Similar situation on Terra. Lets give them a fighting chance against the new and improved Faey.
I'd also use the time to read up what was written in the treaty that made Terra neutral. There must be some clause that covers human experimentation without consent and biological warfare by the FMS...

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Re: Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:04 pm

Chasm wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:12 am
Similar situation on Terra. Lets give them a fighting chance against the new and improved Faey.
I'd also use the time to read up what was written in the treaty that made Terra neutral. There must be some clause that covers human experimentation without consent and biological warfare by the FMS...
Severe fines, and a tavel ban on all FMS Personnel(*) being able to enter terran space until reparations are made.

(* The ban only applies to members of the FMS who have not disavowed the FMS and its actions)

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Re: Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:09 am

Now that I've read the chapter rather than looking at the spoiler thread first. 8)
Chasm wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:12 am
The Parri obviously have decided that they want to be part of that, so it did not happen. :)
I'm guessing that because they already could both hear and understand commune as well as do telepathy and TK, their brain structure was "too advanced" for the virus to be able adapt them the rest of the way.

Jason's wondering about the impacts on Faey society, I'm wondering about the impacts on human society on Earth. Between "the kimdori sense" telepathy, telekinesis, and commune they're the ones really getting the culture shock.

Not already mentioned: There were actually two initial strains. "Patient Zero" was ostensibly Dahnai, although the real Patient Zero is likely to be ensconced inside the FMS that had been in lockdown for a week prior to the outbreak. The KMS were being paranoid idiots and released a retrovirus that only targeted Faey, the humans went along for the ride because they essentially are the same species, and even more-so now. It appears that was simply an unavoidable outcome for the FMS and not intended. (They also thought announcing that the Faey are effectively going to become Generations is going to be a deterrent for others rather than a lure. While also forgetting it is the technology the Karrine Generations hold which makes them something to be feared. A generation without the tech, and more particularly without the training is easy pickings for an adequately prepared group. Something I'm sure Jason will be pointing out to the Faey in the days/weeks to come.)

Good odds the FMS panicked in response to the Karrine and Kimdori probes of that lab. Which lead to a "live trial" being attempted within the lab. Only they engineered the retrovirus so well that it escaped their own containment procedures. Resulting in the lab being locked down and the observation that nobody had left in almost a week before the outbreak was detected on Karis and in the Imperial Palace on Draconis(where the FMS couldn't contain the information).

In that light, it is possible they called in almost everyone who was part of the initial wave and contained them in the lab, but not in time to prevent the retrovirus from having spread to various points in Draconis in the interim. Which is how Jason then picked it up from Dahnai and brought back a mutated form of it back to Karis and Earth. Of course, in the interim, the FMS has also started ensuring maximum spread through the Imperium for their version of it.

They're just lucky Songa's projected complication rate was overly conservative by a few orders of magnitude.

Once "the honeymoon period" is over however, I think people are going to be a little pissed at the FMS, even absent further revelations beyond the matter of their being the originators of the retro-virus.

Every human on earth, and a number of people from other races as well, are now essentially restricted to Earth, the Imperium, or Karrine holdings. Anywhere else is now a dangerous place for them to visit without serious protection coming with them. The Faey at large are also now likewise impacted in the same way, they're limited in exactly the same way. The lack of freedom of movement that causes is going to start to chaff. It is even worse for the Imperium, the Karrines and Earth have it easy by comparison, they have a limited number of holdings, and can easily secure those to the point where abductions aren't particularly viable, and the Karrines are seeing to that now. But if you live in the Faey Imperium? Oh boy, trouble is calling. I expect there is going to be problem with disappearing Faey in the near future.

That also ignores the matter that while the Karrine sensor net and planetary shield will address smuggling people away from Earth. It does little in regards to "biological samples" being smuggled out. If all you're interested in is the Virus, or the end product, you don't need the person, you just need "a sufficiently large sample" of their DNA. So while a living subject is preferred, as they can generate "new samples" that way, that isn't the only option.

Edit: TL;DR version:
The real "fun" should happen after Dahnai and Jason hold a Siann meeting and have briefed the Siann on the situation they face going forward... Assuming they're clever enough to think of convening such a briefing. The challenge is the logistics of holding that meeting while contending with the incubation times on the retrovirus. They might need to pull a Confederate Council option for that(bionoids or some flavor with Biogenic commune being employed for most of the "communication haul" as it were--maybe merge pods in KMS Frigates/ships staffed by Bionoids?).

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Re: Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by Greymist » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:46 pm

So I noticed a couple of things I'm curious how Fel deals with:
A virus and the components that make it only have a life span of about 44 days, and the virus can only assemble itself inside the cell of an unaltered host
First question: How did it infect Jason in the first place? If it didn't alter him - which it didn't because he didn't go into a coma - then he must be considered an "altered host", ergo it shouldn't have reproduced/mutated inside of him?
- Related question: Does the virus reproduce inside the Parri?

Second question (if there's a valid answer to the first one :P ), why did it only mutate on Karis? Does it specifically take an existing human generation to be infected and it interacting with their of liable-to-change body cells, to allow it to mutate?

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Re: Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by Greymist » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:49 pm

Not a ID wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:09 am
Now that I've read the chapter rather than looking at the spoiler thread first. 8)
Chasm wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:12 am
The Parri obviously have decided that they want to be part of that, so it did not happen. :)
I'm guessing that because they already could both hear and understand commune as well as do telepathy and TK, their brain structure was "too advanced" for the virus to be able adapt them the rest of the way.
That's the Pai, not the Parri ;)

The Parri are the shaman's.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:52 pm

Greymist wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:46 pm
So I noticed a couple of things I'm curious how Fel deals with:
A virus and the components that make it only have a life span of about 44 days, and the virus can only assemble itself inside the cell of an unaltered host
First question: How did it infect Jason in the first place? If it didn't alter him - which it didn't because he didn't go into a coma - then he must be considered an "altered host", ergo it shouldn't have reproduced/mutated inside of him?
- Related question: Does the virus reproduce inside the Parri?
Valid question. Also you get a chicken and egg situation with the altered hosts. The virus should need to assemble itself, at least long enough to determine whether the host had been altered previously. Unless there was some kind of protein (or other signal) the unassembled virus was looking for to indicate that the current host had been "altered."

If it was looking for a "signal protein" and they inadvertently picked one absent in the generations, it could be the Generations were in fact infected and altered so they would produce the protein. It just happened that the changes to them were so minor the infection "ran its course" in mere moments-basically long enough to make whatever change was needed in whatever part of the body is producing that protein.

You're also forgetting the aspect that the coma only happened when the virus began to alter the brain, something it likely wouldn't need to do with the Generations because they already were generations to start with.

Option 3: Dahnai and a number of her Imperial Staff have Symbiotes in their system thanks to their visiting the Summer Palace on Karis as well as Earth, so the Faey Imperial Palace on Draconis likely has a substantial Symbiote population as well even if the rest of the planet does not. As the Symbiotes did seem to have "a fully assembled viral payload" within them, it may be that Dahnai and Jason alike were infected by way of the Symbiotes, as that would fully bypass the initial condition for assembly.
Second question (if there's a valid answer to the first one :P ), why did it only mutate on Karis? Does it specifically take an existing human generation to be infected and it interacting with their of liable-to-change body cells, to allow it to mutate?
It gets worse actually. It seems the Faey version of the virus isn't mutating. It is only the version that was created after encountering Jason which seems to be doing so. Of course, there also was only one other human generation prior to this that could have triggered a further mutation as it was anyhow. Although the question then becomes what was specific to the Human Generations(all two of them) that caused the Virus to mutate?

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Re: Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:56 pm

Greymist wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:49 pm
Not a ID wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 12:09 am
Now that I've read the chapter rather than looking at the spoiler thread first. 8)
Chasm wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:12 am
The Parri obviously have decided that they want to be part of that, so it did not happen. :)
I'm guessing that because they already could both hear and understand commune as well as do telepathy and TK, their brain structure was "too advanced" for the virus to be able adapt them the rest of the way.
That's the Pai, not the Parri ;)

The Parri are the shaman's.
D'oh! I'm going to write that one off as a combination of "shaman magic" protecting them as being Generations isn't their role. While Jason didn't enjoy such protection because being a Generation is his role. In a comparable vein, we can hand-wave the retro-viral mutation as potential "Shaman magic" as well because the universe(or the Karis world-spirit) decided more Generations, of many races, were going to be needed in the future.

Alternately, whatever "signal protein" the virus was looking to detect a previously infected host is one the Parri already had.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:46 pm

Another issue that is about to become a big deal for the Humans now that they're generations... Is Jason's family history of cancer truly linked to being a generation, or just bad luck genetically? Because if it is linked to a Human being a generation, the FMS effectively gave every human a near 100% chance of developing cancer, and having it be a life-long concern. Albeit, a much longer life so long as they properly monitor for the cancer.

Given the sheer scale of that issue, that may warrant opening up a research project to address that specific issue. Sounds like a worthy cause for the FMS to devote their resources to in atonement as it regards to Terra.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:52 pm

An issue with other related implications given every human is about to become a Generation... Commune and the ability to interface with biogenic systems...

Obviously Biogenic hardware being made (physically) available is out. However, the ""telepathic resonance technology" they learned about in Chapter 8 may be a way for the House to dodge around the biogenics side of things. (I don't remember if they have any biogenics on their campus on Earth, which is a related side-issue if any are present)

A medium/long-term question question that extends from that is going to be access control to certain other things, like Citadel Online, as it was intended for age 18+ users outside of House Karrine, with the access gateway control on the the Karrine version being able to access the biogenic network, be it by commune or biogenic gestalt. "The non-house" version had a defacto age limit of 18 because of the need for a gestalt implant which couldn't be obtained until age 18.... Well, they don't need a gestalt implant to "merge" any longer, they just need a technology that enables them to have an interface absent biogenics.

And speaking of CO, it will be interesting to how things develop for the humans playing that game now that everyone on earth is receiving the same boost Kevin Ball likely received in the past, as well as the same boost he undoubtedly obtained with the retrovirus outbreak, as he wasn't telepathic/a generation previously. He just had boosted response times previously only seen in telepaths.

In that respect, it would be interesting to see how his transition to being a generation played out. I'd also suspect Jason may try to recruit him into the House at this point.

Tangentially, I'd suspect that the simsense programs(and CO's tech specifically) may see further use in helping cope with all the people needing training at this point.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by GotToGo » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:16 pm

Wow you'all are over the place, also (Fel - Fucking Medical Service for the FMS was right-on). 8) :lol:

1. Revolution are not always a war - i.e. Industrial, scientific, computer revolutions.

2. How will being a Generation effect the Faey?
A. Generations are not as war like as the Faey are - yes they can fight with the best when warranted! Will it mellow the Faey aggressiveness?
B. Bring Faey males on par with the females?

3. How will Faey handle Earth with so many Generations, nor the Farm Workers toward the Faey? :evil:

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Re: Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by kyli » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:53 pm

GotToGo wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:16 pm
B. Bring Faey males on par with the females?
Faey Generations females are stronger on average then males. I do wonder if Terrans will be the same though or if the average power will be equal across gender lines.
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Re: Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:55 am

GotToGo wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:16 pm
Wow you'all are over the place, also (Fel - Fucking Medical Service for the FMS was right-on). 8) :lol:
Fel has created a rather deep and elabortate setting. There are a LOT of moving parts moving around. Plenty of rabbit holes to get lost in. :)
1. Revolution are not always a war - i.e. Industrial, scientific, computer revolutions.
Chapter's 4 and 5 had discussions where people on here realized that a Revolution doesn't need to be an armed conflict and could mean "a significant change" in something. So speculation as to the form of "the Revolution" outside the context of military action, started about then.
2. How will being a Generation effect the Faey?
A. Generations are not as war like as the Faey are - yes they can fight with the best when warranted! Will it mellow the Faey aggressiveness?
The Kimdori sense is likely to have some impact, but going by Jyslin and Dahnai, it's unlikely that it will mellow them out much at all. Particularly with respect to people who are not Kimdori or Generations.

The Karrine Generations in general are more mellow because they understand the seriousness of the situation they are in(particularly with being part of a House that was destroyed, in part, because of this), and both the threats they pose to others, as well as the threat others pose to them. The Sianne needs to have this drilled into them quickly before certain members of it start getting ideas about extra-territorial activities. They need to realize what kind of threat this poses to them and the people they are supposed to be responsible for.
B. Bring Faey males on par with the females?
Already addressed, women still remain more powerful. (Although the power differential may not be as pronounced)
3. How will Faey handle Earth with so many Generations, nor the Farm Workers toward the Faey? :evil:
The Faey grossly outnumber the humans 220 Billion to what 5 or 6 Billion? (after the losses during the Subjugation/immigration to House Karrine) The Humans might be more difficult to deal with, but not insurmountably so. Besides which, the humans are self-governing now, so it isn't THAT much of a power-shift on Earth.

However, the Faey on Earth are probably going to have to adjust to humans no longer being "open books" for them to read telepathically as they adjust to their new abilities. Another big change, albeit one that will take a few years for humans to be sufficiently trained, is that now that humans can become powerful telepaths in their own right, the role of the Imperial Marines on Earth is likely to begin to diminish as humans are now able to fulfill that role.

The Faey also do have some valid security concerns now in play on Earth as that lack of humans "being an open book" means the Imperial Marines aren't quite as ruthlessly effective as they were for being law enforcement. As well as concerns about humans who are out for retribution. Now that humans have a means of overcoming the telepathic advantage the Faey enjoyed previously, their ability to "sense" danger approaching is going to be greatly diminished. A number of Faey are likely to be roughed up or even killed on Earth over the next several weeks, I'd wager. Humans are good at holding grudges, even 13 years later. (edit to add:) I think they'll be "reasonably isolated" cases though, most of the bad actors likely to do that have probably long-since run afoul of the Imperial Marines and are being handled by the justice system already. If they weren't killed outright during the Subjugation.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by kyli » Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:34 am

Not a ID wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 1:55 am
The Faey also do have some valid security concerns now in play on Earth as that lack of humans "being an open book" means the Imperial Marines aren't quite as ruthlessly effective as they were for being law enforcement. As well as concerns about humans who are out for retribution. Now that humans have a means of overcoming the telepathic advantage the Faey enjoyed previously, their ability to "sense" danger approaching is going to be greatly diminished. A number of Faey are likely to be roughed up or even killed on Earth over the next several weeks, I'd wager. Humans are good at holding grudges, even 13 years later. (edit to add:) I think they'll be "reasonably isolated" cases though, most of the bad actors likely to do that have probably long-since run afoul of the Imperial Marines and are being handled by the justice system already. If they weren't killed outright during the Subjugation.
Such cases will also likely be diminished by the fact that the faey and humans will both have the Kimdori sense and will be more likely to make peace with each other at the least. Outsiders maybe not so much.

I am a bit worried about the 2 percent that aren't going to be Generations on Karis. They will not only see themselves as outsiders, they will likely also be treated as such, if maybe unintentionally.
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Re: Revolution Chapter 9 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:15 am

kyli wrote:
Sat Nov 16, 2019 2:34 am
I am a bit worried about the 2 percent that aren't going to be Generations on Karis. They will not only see themselves as outsiders, they will likely also be treated as such, if maybe unintentionally.
The 2% who opted out may not be 2% by the time things run their course, between the already infected, and others who may decide to opt in based on feedback from Friends/neighbors, the choice only becomes difficult to change once the other 98% have been confirmed as infected due to "resetting the timer." But even then, "accommodations" would likely be very possible for at least the first few weeks after that(as the far-flung KES/KMS crews should have their chance at it too, so just arrange for their infections to happen alongside those crew members--or lock them in a luxury skimmer for 48-ish days :mrgreen: )

It only truly becomes an issue if they change their mind after the virus is no longer "in the wild." From then on it becomes an ethics question for Jason and the Kimdori later on if they want to reopen that door again at some point in the future. As I suspect they are keeping samples, even as they try to keep other groups from getting or keeping their own. So the "in the wild" expiration date is sometime around the end of September?

Once you move into October, you're dealing with "A promise is a promise," and Kimdori are all about keeping them. As there was a promise made that Jyslin would be the last one to be deliberately turned into a Generation. Except that was using the original methodology used to create the Generations in the first place, which this isn't. And if someone wants to go full on legal-beagle on it, Jason technically broke/voided the promise when he gave up on trying to contain the retrovirus(even with the blessing of the Kimdori), as they then shifted into trying to infect people as quickly as they felt was safely possible.

Depending on how much things change, and in what ways, there is likely to be a future point where House Karrine, Earth, and whatever replaces the FMS end up with a policy of allowing people to be infected with the retrovirus (or an "improved" later version of it) under controlled circumstances. (Just be prepared to be in quarantine for up to 2 months) Might be a good use for a couple of those Benga super-ships. I highly doubt that is going to happening during the run of Revolution though, as I seem to recall it was supposed to also have a low chapter count, which if I'm remembering right, also points to the FMS, as it seems the virus was "the revolution" and now the yet to be resolved items are handling the FMS and lifting the quarantines.

Future speculation could be the "Telepathic Resonance Tech" from earlier chapters is going to be found to be particularly responsive to Generations(biogenics are still better for Generations in certain ways), which isn't to mention the "class divide" it would create for many races that are not wholly telepathic, or lack telepaths of their own. It may very well turn out that the solution they ultimately have to go with to address that issue within the Confederation, not to be confused with House Karrine, is to go ahead and make use of the option that levels the playing field with respect to the genie they let out of the bottle with regards to THAT technology. (Precedents exist in regards to tech in general, as well as the non-biogenic gestalts, although this would be the first case of genetic alterations being offered)

Progression would basically be: House Karrine will not share biogenics, but they can get their hands on the resonance tech, and offer that as an alternative. However, after that tech gets out into the wild(as they just deliberately set it loose), it creates a situation not much unlike the House Karrine situation from 1300-ish years ago in regards to Generations vs non-Generations, only this time it is Telepaths vs non-Telepaths with a couple hundred billion Generations thrown into the mix.

And speaking of the KES and that resonance tech... A number of KES ships had crew infected with the retrovirus, did they happen to pass it along during one of their first contact or follow-up meetings?

Another final thought going with potential foreshadowing of pending social changes, Revolution Chapter 7 gave this one, and I wonder if (Generation) human females have this trait as well:
He’d bet that the Faey would act entirely differently if it was much easier for teenage girls to get pregnant. The same mechanism that made it almost unheard of for Faey women to conceive quickly after giving birth was also at work in pubescent and recently post-pubescent teenage girls, which allowed them to monkey around with very little fear of getting pregnant. A Faey woman didn’t really have a good chance to get pregnant until she was nearly 25…which was the reason Jason suspected that 25 was the official age of majority in Faey society.

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