Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

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betatester
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Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by betatester » Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:12 am

So lots to unpack in this chapter

We finally have an end to farm worker scam that was happening at Earth in the UN. The KES meets an empire that might be more advanced than them as they were able to detect how far the KES scout ship was jumping out and met them there before the KES got there.

I think there would be an offshoot of the faey race in that galaxy as that ambassador correctly recognized Myra belonging to the Ulala race. Also I think Jason would eventually open up diplomatic relationship with that empire and then they would learn more about Ulala.

Finally I think the Virus is what the IMS was working on at ward 6 and they have finally released it as they felt that the karinees and the Kimdori were not going to let that issue go. That's why there are so many cases of infection on Draconis.

I think the IMS reversed engineered the original retrovirus from Jason and Dahnai as they had access to both of them as they didn't think that IMS would betray them like that. But I think the IMS got interested in the faey race become generations once Dahnai was transformed into one.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by DMPug » Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:50 pm

I agree and it will mean the end of the IMS

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Re: Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by Not a ID » Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:43 pm

betatester wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:12 am
Finally I think the Virus is what the IMS was working on at ward 6 and they have finally released it as they felt that the karinees and the Kimdori were not going to let that issue go. That's why there are so many cases of infection on Draconis.

I think the IMS reversed engineered the original retrovirus from Jason and Dahnai as they had access to both of them as they didn't think that IMS would betray them like that. But I think the IMS got interested in the faey race become generations once Dahnai was transformed into one.
Agreed, I think the virus is a creation of the IMS using data/samples they have from Dahani and Jason.

The Kimdori and the Karines sniffing around their super-secret facility probably forced them into an early test(which they lost control of), as I doubt they had anywhere near as much understanding of it as they wanted.

A tangential and more elaborate option is Jason's "Danza Flu exposure" in New York City (according to data provided from IMS) was a ruse on the part of the IMS and his IMS advised treatment was the activation vector on his end. Dahnai may have likewise received recent "care" from the IMS to likewise "activate" her in the same manner as well, probably even before Jason was. (Everybody who has attended a recent Siann sessions is likely to be infected)

Certain other aspects of the virus still leave me to suspect somebody far more advanced than even the Karines are involved. Things such as the entire strand manifesting symptoms at the same time. But I guess we'll learn more in the next few chapters.

Most of the Confederated races becoming Generations would also be a Revolution in its own way.

Jason also is looking at it from one side, and ignoring the potentially larger picture at present. Comes with having spent well over a decade dealing with trying to keep it secret I guess, he's stuck in that thought paradigm. While practically everyone becoming Generations causes problems regarding securing their biogenic systems(as everyone can engage in commune), they already have most of the security measures in place already(a lot of it is encrypted), and without actual biogenic hardware, most won't be able to leverage it very far.

As well as the matter that a "powerful special ability" isn't very special when everyone has it, and when everyone else is comparably powerful, it ceases to be quite so (comparatively) powerful as well. It also shifts the risk factors from being one involving anyone who is a generation(because everyone is essentially), to just being risk factors involving the biogenic systems. Something they already have a framework built for addressing. Between physical security they already had(although that'll need to be beefed up as now they also have to worry about "commune range"), paired with further enhancement of the (software/network) security employed on the commune side.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by valinor89 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:32 pm

Well, since the cat already scaped from the bag and now being a generation could be the norm most of the motives that endangered the Generations are gone as they will not be hunted to get the secret.

It is true that it get's Karine eritage out there but the fact that 10 species can potentially be generations and that the death toll from the change could be greatly mitigated will help push the Karine house even higuer if it is managed correctly. As it stands the Karine House already consists of multiple races, if every race can in the house can commune it could be awesome.

Jason mulls over what will happen when new Generations go out of control, but really, that would not be such a problem because new Generations will also arise to control them. If everyone is superman the fact that a supervillin can arise is not really a problem.

To be honest I think this is helpfull to the Karines by the fact that they now only really have another technology they have to protect instead of the actual people. Also, the fact that the potential hability to merge with machines is not something unnique to them has been stablished for a time, and more so by this chapter. If anything this puts the kimdory on a bind as they will now be easily detected, but then again if everyone is a Generation they will not stand out as much.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by Not a ID » Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:57 pm

valinor89 wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:32 pm
To be honest I think this is helpful to the Karines by the fact that they now only really have another technology they have to protect instead of the actual people. Also, the fact that the potential ability to merge with machines is not something unique to them has been established for a time, and more so by this chapter. If anything this puts the kimdory on a bind as they will now be easily detected, but then again if everyone is a Generation they will not stand out as much.
Hadn't considered the Kimdori angle, and I'm fuzzy on if Generations can recognize each other in the same way, but yes. That does add a new challenge for the Denmother and company to work around.

The introduction to the concept of "telepathic resonance technology" as a pathway distinct from Biogenics may also provide interesting options outside of the Generation's Commune, again another option for "Revolution" as that could make a significant, and sudden, change for the races with large numbers of telepaths.

Which is now likely to include humans if the retrovirus either made it to Earth, or is allowed to get to Earth. Every human a Generation? (George Takei voice) Oh my.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by Chasm » Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:25 am

Seems like the Kimdori have been too good at what they do for to long.
How often do get caught infiltrating a target until it is obvious to the target that something is really going on? And also who most likely did it.
Should have switched really soon to investigate everyone that ever came out of the facility. Lifting information from their heads. :)
Alternatively investigation what stuff goes into the facility and what if any comes out. Tap the data lines, infiltrate their external endpoints. And so on and so forth.

What I also wonder is if there was any investigation into the Terran branch of the medical service. They are also heavily implicated in the Farm scandal. There was a lot of heavy handed investigation going on. Why not look into them? Maybe I'm missing something.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by Not a ID » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:46 am

I'm going to walk back slightly on speculation of an unknown third party being in the mix.

I'm going hew back to the older theory that the KMS played a major role in destroying House Karine the first time around. They probably even identified aspects of the Generation Program back then, and may have been covertly tracking generations since then as well. So what we're seeing unleashed may be something they've been working on secretly since before House Karine fell.

It also throws the Farm events into another light--Humans were being used as test subjects because how genetically similar they were to the Fae(for reasons we're aware of--The Fae are a divergent branch of Humans)

Of course, there still is the matter of what else they've been up to in the interim, to have such a sophisticated ability to manipulate viral agents. I'm inclined to suspect the Viral Agent that Jason encountered on Moridon way back in the day is likely to be traced back to the FMS as well, if they can get into those super-secret archives.

As to why now? While House Karine was broken and scattered, it wasn't a priority, it was a very long term and very low-key and discreet program. The discovery of Earth gave them an ideal testing ground to work with. Which likely accelerated their research(at the cost of human lives), albeit Earth also ultimately curbed their research when Karine descended humans started to manifest telepathic abilities, and were then identified as Karines put them into "oh crap!" mode.

The recent investigations that Jason and Zaa have undertaken kicked their program into both extreme overdrive, and CYA mode.

I'm torn on the viral release at this time being deliberate or not, the fact that it has the signature of Jason and Dahnai makes me think it was very deliberate.

My theory at this time is the FMS is in a extreme-paranoia mode, afraid that the Karines of today are going to go down the road the earlier Karines did(Dahnai's change doesn't help put that to bed--as that put a Generation on the throne). So their way of "leveling the field" now is to go ahead and release the retrovirus into the population at large, so that Jason has to contend with exactly what he is looking at now. (And so Jason and the Kimdori can't learn what they were doing in time to stop it--mission accomplished)

There are more Faye Generations than there are Karine Generations. The Karine's no longer have "supremacy" on that specific (biological) front. There still is the technical side, but they're probably gambling on that being challenged on the front "You were keeping this secret from us, what other dark secrets do you have?" (Notwithstanding what the FMS themselves were doing)

Dahnai herself runs into that problem with the Dream Vision with her attempt to attack the dragon failing, probably in part because they'll likely make it known that she already was a Generation, and can paint her as "a secret Karine" and somehow a traitor to the Fae in general based on her actions and reactions to this specific event.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by Not a ID » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:13 am

On second thought, while they may try to portray Dahnai's conversion to being a Generation as being some insidious Karine plot. I'm starting to suspect the FMS may have done that as a test case. Their(Karine+Kimdori+Dahnai's) theory in Conviction was wrong, it was a test run. It may have also been an attempt to assassinate the Empress and her family as a worst case. (Which the FMS could then put the blame on the Karines for having infected Dahnai's family)

Scenario 1) The Empress and family dies, FMS blames the Karines, Karines get wiped out again.
Scenario 2) The Empress and family lives, the Empress doesn't "play ball" with the Karines, and the FMS has some delusion that the Empress would do something to curb the Karines because of their (defunct) generations program. Which they made her part of. (They're either unaware of, or being oblivious to the wider implications of what being a Generation means)
Scenario 3) The Empress and family lives, the Empress "plays ball" with the Karines, FMS now views the Empress as an enemy and begins to plan accordingly. (They also know the viral agent works on Fae, and can be survived)

Conviction Chapter 10: (24 August 2018; Revolution Chapter 8, specifically the Viral Outbreak is 12 August 2022)
The mad dash to the annex gave Jason time to think. How did this happen, and why didn’t any of the medical scanners in the house or in the summer palace pick it up? How could Miyai have infected the rest of her family? Where in the fuck did this retrovirus come from? He knew that there was no way that anyone on Karis would have the balls to try to engineer one, Cybi would sniff it out and crush it. But where else could it have come from? And in the actual case that this was somehow natural, what had changed that turned Miyai contagious? How did she infect her sister and mother with a retrovirus that couldn’t possibly exist? And why had it taken years to show up? The toddlers were three years old now! What had changed in Miyai that caused her to suddenly become contagious years after she was born?
...When you realize the FMS had access to Miyai, and the rest of her family, and can't be trusted. As well as that little matter that 2 of 2 instances of the Generation Virus suddenly changing only involve people the FMS had access to, happened 4 year apart, in the same family grouping, and nobody else in the centuries of history behind the Generation Program ever encountered this phenomena before... Sounds like somebody has been tampering with things.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by artreus » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:28 am

I find it strange that we havent heard from the hacker yet, his wereabouts where known, and he was expected to spill the beans fast, to save his ass, as to who gave the orders .

2 more theories :

-the retrovirus spreads over commune ?
-the virus was spread by the new zealous race, around the shielded galaxy, and there caught by jason and crew ... and hence spread over commune when jason returned to his body ?


i dont see how the defect spiders on Cybi can be anything else but a red herring ,

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Re: Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by Not a ID » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:37 pm

artreus wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:28 am
I find it strange that we havent heard from the hacker yet, his wereabouts where known, and he was expected to spill the beans fast, to save his ass, as to who gave the orders.
Yes, that is an unresolved plot item, it's been a couple weeks since they took down the UN Officials, and no mention about the findings from apprehending the hacker. Which means the hacker either evaded capture, or the Kimdori are still investigating the leads the hacker turned over.
2 more theories :

-the retrovirus spreads over commune ?
If by "commune" you mean the biogenic network. If a person is able to directly engage in commune, they're either a Generation, Kimdori, or a Biogenic entity(Rook/CBIMs/etc).

Except if that were so, you'd expect that Karis would be the hotspot for the outbreak, not Draconis. Likewise if it was simple proximity to others using Biogenic Commune, considering biogenic tech is everywhere on Karis, and nearly all of the Generations are there as well. Which would mean the bulk of the Commune activity is on Karis, and thus that is where the outbreak should be most potent. It isn't, so commune is not a factor in that way. (And ignores the matter of why it is an issue now when it wasn't one the first time around, when it should have been more unstable)

The other issue with that theory is "the viral signature" belongs to Jason and Dahnai. If it was "a commune thing" in general why would it end up with their "fingerprints" on it and not some more generic result?

Another thing that can be thrown into the mix for breaking that association is the matter that Draconis has far more people infected would indicate Dahnai, rather than Jason, was the first one to be "infected" rather than their current theory. I'd also say that should be throwing red flags to some of the Karines and Kimdori alike as to this outbreak being natural(I'd almost expect one of the CBIM's to have crunched numbers on those probabilities in the near future story time-line wise).

If Jason and Dahnai "infected each other," the affected population should be relatively comparable as they should have become contagious at nearly the same time. The population breakdown of those infected is highly Asymmetrical instead, which says Dahnai was infected first and by a large time margin, which suggests they didn't "infect each other" and someone else did so instead(in order for the "it's both of them" scenario to show in the signature). Of course, I guess you have some hedging that can be done in regards to the matter that Jason spends a lot of time in the company of other Generations--who'd be immune, while Dahnai does not(and Dahnai's Imperial guard presence that Jason now can avoid). Which would put a curb on the growth curve likely to be seen on Karis given the presence of an immune population as it has fewer opportunities to spread.
-the virus was spread by the new zealous race, around the shielded galaxy, and there caught by jason and crew ... and hence spread over commune when jason returned to his body ?
Time line doesn't completely work, the zealots would have needed to also be the ones who infected Miyai(or her family members) 4 years ago. As the Karines didn't even reach that region of space until this past month, that makes it a bit difficult for events from 4 years ago to have been a consequence of that.

That said, I seem to recall Fel commenting at one point that another Intergalactic Civilization had noticed what was going on in Andromeda and that Jason was going to be glad to he handled that situation the way he would(did now) later on because of that. So it is possible "the Zealots" are that civilization which noticed their activity in Andromeda, and they've been meddling since. In which case we might have the "unknown (advanced) third party" identified. It may not be the Zealots, but it could possibly be whomever that other civilization is(that noticed the Karine/Kimdori ships zipping around Andromeda).
i dont see how the defect spiders on Cybi can be anything else but a red herring ,
I'd expect it's an outgrowth of the Rook storyline, and likely to be a hook for some later story development that may remain years down the line as it relates to the story timeline. It's probably unrelated to Revolution's storyline, so in that respect it's a red herring, but it is plot relevant for other things coming down the line.

Also: Going back to the possible commune angle, even if you wanted to suggest "Jason was the vector" and commune was the means of his being infected, you then have the explain the how/why of that working, and how it pointed to Miyai the first time? In the recent contact situation, Jason probably was not the only person using biogenic commune to use a bionoid on that ship. (Although I guess he may have been the only generation doing so) As even the people using the other forms of merging rely on the biogenic commune to reach interstellar distances. So that "extra layer" could have protected them from whatever Jason was exposed to, as well as the matter that not being generations there would be no symbiotic viral component to trigger as well. That said, it still doesn't account for "the Miyai event" 4 years ago, which I'm certain is very connected to what is going on here, as a then 3 year old, she was not communing over interstellar distances.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by artreus » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:02 pm

Also: Going back to the possible commune angle, even if you wanted to suggest "Jason was the vector" and commune was the means of his being infected, you then have the explain the how/why of that working, and how it pointed to Miyai the first time?
the only reasons I hint at commune are :
the virus does not appear to spread in any known way .
its clearly a mutation, a different virus then the first one, so the way it spreads can be different.

so I will flesh my wild theory out :
the Zealots have seeded the border area with some kind of 'commune' / mental resonance' virus, that Jason caught,
then the virus combined in Jason with the old 'generation' virus.

same combination theorie could be made for the terra virus, but that seems to obvious for Fel.

both dont explain why Draconis has more spread, but what is the spread in % of total population ? 3000 out of billions on Draconis vs tens out of i dont know how many on Karis ( guess i lot less then the Draconis population )

the spread on Karis seems to be planet wide, there is no mention about the spread on Draconis, so if the 3000 in Draconis are all in the capital, then it still points to a patient zero - Jason ...

interesting side effect : that mob-duchess (Yila Trefany) will probably also become generation , so it doesnt matter if her daughter stays loyal to mother of Karinne/Zach

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Re: Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by Not a ID » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:41 am

Pulling things out a sequence somewhat here but...
artreus wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:02 pm
both dont explain why Draconis has more spread, but what is the spread in % of total population ? 3000 out of billions on Draconis vs tens out of i dont know how many on Karis ( guess i lot less then the Draconis population )

the spread on Karis seems to be planet wide, there is no mention about the spread on Draconis, so if the 3000 in Draconis are all in the capital, then it still points to a patient zero - Jason ...
"Patient Zero" has been identified already in Chapter 8:
I can tell you that now, Denmother,” Cybi called. “I’ve analyzed the virus, and it carries elements of both Jason and Dahnai’s DNA. It’s not specific to either of them, and it’s not spawned from Raisha. My guess is, the virus originated from one of them, spread to the other, and then mutated when exposed to the other’s DNA, picking up elements of the second Generation. Given that Jason and Dahnai are two different species, it’s not a complete surprise that the virus mutated when exposed to the second Generation. Generation DNA is exceptionally dynamic. This cross-species mutation is why the virus can affect species outside of them.
"Patient Zero" is two people, Dahnai and Jason. The virus has elements from both of them. So they "infected each other" in the scenario presented there. Or a third party blended the two together in a special cocktail, and they then went about infecting one then the other. Or infected one(probably Dahnai) in advance of her trip to her Summer Retreat, so she could infect Jason.

But my bet would be "Day Zero" for the Virus was at the start of this chapter(21 July 2022), when Jason was exposed to that rapidly mutating virus that was allegedly loose in New York. With Dahnai being infected(c/o the FMS) about the same time or just before Jason was. Also possible: the FMS infected other people on Draconis at the same time, rather than wait for it to spread from the Imperial Palace (or risk it being contained before it escaped there). Which is how Draconis has a wider spread.

Comments also of note:
[Jason is right, Dahnai. We keep this a secret, at least for now,] Zaa injected, using her memory band. [If they find out that Faey are being turned into Generations, they’ll try to get samples of the virus to engineer it to work on their own species, or they may try to kidnap Faey to turn them into slaves, like the Dreamers were.]
Exactly what I'm accusing the FMS as having done in this case. As they know the Generations started as "normal Fae" and they also know that Dahnai's family is now comprised of generations, after having been "normal Fae" (albeit exceptional) previously.

And it seems Cybi is on watch already:
Nearly a hundred. Jason, everyone on the strip that can be affected is in transition. The strip girls, their children, the guards. Everyone that has been in close contact with you over the last month is in transition.”
“Why didn’t the sensors around the strip catch it?”
“Because it just started within the last twenty minutes, with all of them. Jason, that is not natural,” she said. “I have no records of any virus that will have infected different people at different times syncing their incubation time to begin affecting their hosts at the same time. Something had to have triggered this,
So by the time we near the end of the Chapter they're starting to look unnatural causes, but they don't seem to be looking at the FMS just yet. (The Outbreak is detected on August 12th; of course, they had their encounter with the Galactic perimeter wall also was that same day. But again, I'm going to hold to the events from 4 years ago being connected to this one, so that tends to rule out that specific encounter)
Also: Going back to the possible commune angle, even if you wanted to suggest "Jason was the vector" and commune was the means of his being infected, you then have the explain the how/why of that working, and how it pointed to Miyai the first time?
the only reasons I hint at commune are :
the virus does not appear to spread in any known way .
its clearly a mutation, a different virus then the first one, so the way it spreads can be different.
Simpler answer still remains a less exotic/metaphysical option. The virus we're seeing break out in this case is one that has been engineered by the FMS as the culmination of a project that has been underway since before House Karine fell the first time.
so I will flesh my wild theory out :
the Zealots have seeded the border area with some kind of 'commune' / mental resonance' virus, that Jason caught,
then the virus combined in Jason with the old 'generation' virus.
Except the only thing present in that border area belonged to the group protecting themselves from the zealots, there was no other tech present. And how/why would they have something turning people into Generations so effectively out there? That would make their enemies stronger, not weaker. I guess they could be some kind of combat cult, but that's really moving into bizzaro-land.
same combination theorie could be made for the terra virus, but that seems to obvious for Fel.
What Terra Virus? The Shio Danza Virus? It was present on Earth before the KES was anywhere near that cluster of galaxies.
interesting side effect : that mob-duchess (Yila Trefany) will probably also become generation , so it doesnt matter if her daughter stays loyal to mother of Karinne/Zach
Well, more specifically, it renders moot any concern about Yila Trefani learning about the "secrets of the Generations" after she has been turned into one. Yila Trefani with biogenic capabilities is slightly disturbing. She'll certainly be hard at work learning how to "split" as soon as she learns about it. More chances to cause mayhem. Her and Kumi both.
Last edited by Not a ID on Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by Not a ID » Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:46 am

I really think the dragon in the vision is the FMS, I think Dahnai is going to learn about what was going on as they "connect the dots" and she's going to be particularly enraged about the "Experiment" she was made part of 4 years previous. As such, she's going to be at great risk of trying to lash out and do what she commented on in chapter 8:
You interfered in the Medical Service, Jason, you just don’t do that. Not even I would ever dream of doing something like that, it would get me bounced off my throne.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by Not a ID » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:22 am

betatester wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:12 am
The KES meets an empire that might be more advanced than them as they were able to detect how far the KES scout ship was jumping out and met them there before the KES got there.
Didn't address this earlier and should point this out:
By the time he was merged to one of the generic crew bionoids and was on the bridge, they were at their new position five light years away from the border. The ship that had been approaching at sublight, however, reappeared on visual almost as soon as they came out of mode one, about 100,000 kathra away, and it resumed a sublight intercept course.
IIRC, "Mode One" is the FTL Drive, they weren't even using their Jump Drive, never mind both of them at the same time. So they didn't demonstrate being more advanced with that encounter. Although the ship getting out to the picket in a timely manner in the first place demonstrates that they do seem to have real time jump capabilities of some kind.

The only known "wildcards" in the mix is the "telepathic resonance technology" and the unknown metal.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 8 (Spoliers)

Post by SoronelHaetir » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:43 am

I don't buy the commune being the vector idea for the simple reason that the folks manifesting the disease aren't sensitive to it. Nearly every humanoid species is susceptible to this.

I almost suspect some sort of invasive means, slipped in during recent medical visits (possibly even using adulterated medications). That the reason it's not picked up on any of the scanners is that it simply cannot exist in the free environment.

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