Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

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kyli
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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by kyli » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:06 am

So I have been wondering, could Jason use the phasing trick to effect certain particles as they pass through a certain area. For example, could he cause all photons that would hit him to go out of phase right before they would hit him and as they pass through him, effectively making him complete invisible on the visible light spectrum. Of course, in this small example, he would still be visible on the rest of the spectrum, but if he prevented the energy particles from the entire electromagnetic spectrum from effecting him from the outside, he would still be visible because of the energy given off by the human body. I assume that simply going out of phase himself wouldn't work to make him completely undetectable because there are probably sensors that can detect out of phase objects. Plus, the advantage of putting the entire electromagnetic spectrum out of phase as it passes through him is that he isn't out of phase and therefore can still breathe. The two disadvantages are that he would still show up on heat and probably infrared sensors and there is the tiny problem of photons no longer hitting his eyes making him blind unless he allows light to hit his eyes only. I guess a third problem might be that he would still be detectable through telepathy........... Oh well. It would at least make for a nice party trick. :?
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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by Belgarion213 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:08 am

I would assume something like that would be possible but be a bitch to maintain (especially if your doing something like moving fast) simply because of the micromanaging all that light. Setting up the conditions might be easier. Telekinetics this way requires a lot more concentration than magical tricks that Tarrin pulled off in the Firestaff series.

However rather than using that trick to go invisible could have some interesting (if not particularly useful) applications. I mean if you can make light go out of phase as it goes through a certain area...you can have your lamp shine through walls. Of course, there's probably some Pai who focus on illusionary work if they can manipulate light with fine control (Jason seemed more on burte force lasers or light explosons, but if you can bend light with your mind, could you create an illusion? It would require a LOT of micromanaging...)

We know that Kahrines can bend space (remember when that Faey who was on Draconus bent space to make the MPAC round from the mind controlled marine miss the Empress), what could a Pai do with that kind of thing. I still think eventually manipulating hyperspace is going to come up (though the Pi I doubt can do it if only because they don't understand Hyperspace.

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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by Fel » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Unfortunately, the invisibility trick won't work. Light is an interphasic energy (think back to Myleena's exposition on how translight drives work), and like in REAL science, it's a paradox of quirks that combine to make it very hard to manipulate. That's why the laser beam trick is so hard for Jason, because light is significantly harder to manipulate telekinetically than other forms of energy.

Interphasic energy and material can't be phased, because it exists in all quantum phases simultaneously. Light that bounces off matter in one quantum phase makes that object visible to any quantum phase.
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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by expedient » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:54 pm

Belgarion213 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:33 pm
I've always wondered as the Kahrines put those booster relays for Cybi around if the generations were going to be able to effectively use their telekinetics over long distance (obviously through those sensors I mentioned). Of course if they did they instantly become the most powerful force in the galaxy (how would you like to have your palace telekinetically hurled into the sun because Jason was having a bad day on the other side of the galactic cluster? Yeah I know he wouldn't do that but its kind of terrifying that if he did solve the 'distance' problem he probably COULD thanks to his link with Cybi).
Outside of merged generations, we have seen tens of kilometres distance limitations in-story on telepathy and less for telekinesis but biogenic commune and clairvoyance (dreamer oracles, energy being farseeing, muri seeking and parri shaman sensing) have potentially millions of light years range. Is there a lesson to be learned there? Are they missing some fundamental aspect about psionics?

Also I kind of suspect that there are other abilities we haven’t seen yet and maybe the generations and faey have the potential for a few. After all faey oracles do exist, why not other talents?
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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by NSC » Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:31 am

natenater wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:18 pm
I definitely got to disapprove of the absurd power creep that Jason has going on, I feel like it's making him less of an interesting character and just turning into Tarrin Jr.
I have to agree with this. Jason just got out of some very major surgery that also happened extremely fast, and he spends just a week with the Pai master and learns all of these tricks. Too much, too fast, to advance the plot line. Only the next chapter(s) will tell how things turn out, because there's always something not accounted for.

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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by Belgarion213 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:17 am

While there was a bit of power creep I think people are forgetting that Jason has been studying with his Pai teacher for the entire arc, almost since he first discovered the Pai...he just didn't expect to use his skills in live combat before.

We saw him create a fireball earlier in Retribution and a few of his other tricks...I think the main thing here was learning to work with the added power of his new biogenic limbs. Also people are forgetting that the bullshit nature of Faey medical skills has been a reoccurring thing through the the entire Subjugation universe. It's the entire basis of why people getting data-jacks is a day service 20 minute job. (That said, Zora did take a while to get used to her cybernetic hands...)

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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by kyli » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:34 pm

Belgarion213 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:17 am
While there was a bit of power creep I think people are forgetting that Jason has been studying with his Pai teacher for the entire arc, almost since he first discovered the Pai...he just didn't expect to use his skills in live combat before.

We saw him create a fireball earlier in Retribution and a few of his other tricks...I think the main thing here was learning to work with the added power of his new biogenic limbs. Also people are forgetting that the bullshit nature of Faey medical skills has been a reoccurring thing through the the entire Subjugation universe. It's the entire basis of why people getting data-jacks is a day service 20 minute job. (That said, Zora did take a while to get used to her cybernetic hands...)
I agree, the Pai only thought him one thing during that week. The rest he presumably already knew before that. He was just practicing them all.

It took Zora a while to get used to a cybernetic arm but Jason didn't have his arms actually replaced. I believe they basically just replaced his bones up to his shoulder. That's still a major surgery but it probably did take Jason longer to recover even with medical spiders (which Zora didn't have), but since the rest of his arms are basiclly the same and there was no machine to nerve interface as would've been with pure cybernetic arms, he didn't have to get used to it like Zora did.
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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by natenater » Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:52 pm

Belgarion213 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:17 am
While there was a bit of power creep I think people are forgetting that Jason has been studying with his Pai teacher for the entire arc, almost since he first discovered the Pai...he just didn't expect to use his skills in live combat before.

We saw him create a fireball earlier in Retribution and a few of his other tricks...I think the main thing here was learning to work with the added power of his new biogenic limbs. Also people are forgetting that the bullshit nature of Faey medical skills has been a reoccurring thing through the the entire Subjugation universe. It's the entire basis of why people getting data-jacks is a day service 20 minute job. (That said, Zora did take a while to get used to her cybernetic hands...)
For me anyway, it's not an issue of how much time it took but rather that I don't like that Jason is capable of using those powers in the first place. I don't think someone who is largely human should be able to greatly outclass a significant amount of pure-blooded Faey.

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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by J-Man5 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:43 pm

I was wondering about what type of bomb Jason could create by phasing some sense matter into other sense matter. Or if he is able to manipulate quantum states can he locally modify gravity and this put a micro black hole inside something or someone?

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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by expedient » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:59 pm

There is a little bit of power creep, however Jason was insanely powerful before. Even without this training he could have possibly got out of the meeting crushing hearts and breaking legs but the risk might have been too high for him to attempt it. In which case he might have gone for a more 3D approach of having out of context technology available for him, either cloaked from scanners or remotely controlled nearby, and a giant hidden tactical gestalt within range (possibly in a CMS cloaked frigate). Power-wise Jason has already been shown ripping advanced ships apart and diverting GRAF cannon beams around Karis. Plus the Karinnes have technology that has only been challenged by enormous number disparity.

The Consortium was a bigger threat technologically and psionically, the Syndicate are mostly dangerous because of their huge number advantage. So far they haven't been anywhere near as creative as the Consortium. (They might yet surprise us.) When the Karinnes encounter this new upcoming enemy I expect they will be both out-teched and dominated psionically.

Currently a well-trained squad of Faey Imperial Marines with MPAC weaponry could defeat Jason in this scenario, keeping up overlapping fire until he exhausted his warp-space ability. His phasing would only make him more vulnerable by diverting his attention and weakening his defence. He is not all-powerful, he isn't even the strongest Generation.

It's worth remembering that Tarrin was horrifically overpowered to the point where he couldn't control it. After he gained that control he had to face opponents that he had no chance of matching, he had to out-manoeuvre them. So I'll trust that Fel can steer the characters in and out of suitable conundrums and heart-wrenching casualties.
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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by Fel » Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:38 pm

expedient wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:59 pm
There is a little bit of power creep, however Jason was insanely powerful before. Even without this training he could have possibly got out of the meeting crushing hearts and breaking legs but the risk might have been too high for him to attempt it. In which case he might have gone for a more 3D approach of having out of context technology available for him, either cloaked from scanners or remotely controlled nearby, and a giant hidden tactical gestalt within range (possibly in a CMS cloaked frigate). Power-wise Jason has already been shown ripping advanced ships apart and diverting GRAF cannon beams around Karis. Plus the Karinnes have technology that has only been challenged by enormous number disparity.

The Consortium was a bigger threat technologically and psionically, the Syndicate are mostly dangerous because of their huge number advantage. So far they haven't been anywhere near as creative as the Consortium. (They might yet surprise us.) When the Karinnes encounter this new upcoming enemy I expect they will be both out-teched and dominated psionically.

Currently a well-trained squad of Faey Imperial Marines with MPAC weaponry could defeat Jason in this scenario, keeping up overlapping fire until he exhausted his warp-space ability. His phasing would only make him more vulnerable by diverting his attention and weakening his defence. He is not all-powerful, he isn't even the strongest Generation.

It's worth remembering that Tarrin was horrifically overpowered to the point where he couldn't control it. After he gained that control he had to face opponents that he had no chance of matching, he had to out-manoeuvre them. So I'll trust that Fel can steer the characters in and out of suitable conundrums and heart-wrenching casualties.
Yeah, I don't think most of you remember that well before Retribution, Jason learned how to kill using telekinesis.

Remember what he said to Sha Ra when he beat her down. He COULD have ended her faster than snapping his fingers, by stopping her heart using his power.

And not to spoil it too much or anything, but you're finally gonna see him USE that power in the next chapter.
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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by Wolfee » Wed Aug 22, 2018 1:54 am

WOOOT! So ready for the next chapter!!

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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by kyli » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:34 pm

J-Man5 wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:43 pm
I was wondering about what type of bomb Jason could create by phasing some sense matter into other sense matter. Or if he is able to manipulate quantum states can he locally modify gravity and this put a micro black hole inside something or someone?

J-Man5
Maybe something like a nuke. But most of space, including where we find solid matter is mostly empty. Unless he can intentionally phase an uncountable number of atoms into each other, the result would be unpredictable and probably not very spectacular. It might be easier to just rip those atoms apart, although maybe not since the strong nuclear force, as its name suggests, is quite powerful and he would have to overcome it to rip atoms apart. Another option may be to change matter into antimatter. I assume its possible in the quantum realm but i'm not really sure about that.

As for making a black hole inside someone, i think its pretty obvious that he could but it would be pointless unless he is trying to intimidate his enemies and is just showing off. But its in no way an efficient way to kill someone.
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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by GotToGo » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:47 pm

You know how Fel loves to drop little hints of what's to come in his writing writings to tease us? I believe I've I found a couple. 5 or 6 chapters ago among the results of the Interdiction of the Benga are the their Freighter Fleet and their Space Communication Channels. What's so important in that is what's on those freighters and the how does the Space Communication Channels effect it.

The Benga are so cheap that Space Communication Channels are just enough in peace time to be work and the same with the freighters that would they be carrying is food and resources for manufacturing the same as is in the Milky Way. The freighters are stranded in space waiting on not being told where to go because the communications channels are all assigned to the space fleet, leaving the Benga planets without food or resources. What happens to a happy Benga populations that are hungry and with no work without the resources, they revolt - next book Revolutions?

Caught one on you Fel, LOL!

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Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by SYED » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:46 pm

I wonder if in the chaos, they could falsify some communications.

I wonder how the black market works for the benga. That would be a unique avenue of attack.
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