Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Caution: Spoilers!
All about the Subjugation, Insurrection, and Unification books.

Moderator: Sennadar Moderators

Forum rules
Please Read the forum rules.
Coderunner
Novice
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:15 am
Location: Minneapolis
Contact:

Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by Coderunner » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:01 am

So... I'm really looking forward to the new chapter now. Now that all the Dreamers are out of Syndicate hands, and Jason can phase through most solid objects, his chances seem pretty good. I would've liked to see that time dilation power in action, but what he can already do is amazing.

natenater
Talent
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:08 pm

Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by natenater » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:18 pm

I definitely got to disapprove of the absurd power creep that Jason has going on, I feel like it's making him less of an interesting character and just turning into Tarrin Jr.

User avatar
Wolfee
Sui'Kun
Posts: 443
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:54 am
Location: DarkSide of No Where
Contact:

Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by Wolfee » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:31 am

So what us your guess for max chapters in Retribution? I'm thinking max of 15.

Belgarion213
Da'Shar
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:31 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by Belgarion213 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:14 am

That last line...I'm sure Jason is correct and nothing will go pear shaped..../sarcasm mode disengage.

Man the thought of what a fully trained Jason/Cybi team could do is kind of scary...

SYED
Child of Niami
Posts: 899
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:02 pm
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by SYED » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:47 am

So some of the advanced forms of telekinesis are fire/heat manipulation, ice manipulation, plasma, radiance, laser, compression, vortex, scythe, gravity flip, torsion, shielding, the gambit strike, quantum phasing and temporal shifting. Remember apparently Jason was focusing on the more defensive options. This is not even a tenth of what a master can do. Based on the plasma, could they shift states of matter using their power?
Eventually there will be a generation who is disciplined and dedicated enough to become a master on the same scale as the Pai. Then with communion, he could share his skills with other generations to greatly aid in their development. So eventually the generations will become the premier telekinetic users around.
Will the instinctive and trained knowledge of telekinetic base quantum mechanics allow the creation of new avenues of scientific inquiry, potentially even allowing the duplication of some applications. We know there are examples of tech around this already I think.
It has been said t hat a generation can split his mind in time, I am wondering what this means for temporal shifting. His brain would continue to work at the same pass as well as five times as fast.
The generation linked ships are nearly unstoppable as they can simply redirect enemy fire. A range of offensive options that I think can work against the defensive systems used by the confederation.

This make me wonder if it is possible to train dreamer precognitative ability to use other forms of clairvoyance.
.S.A.M.K.M

Belgarion213
Da'Shar
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:31 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by Belgarion213 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:12 am

SYED: I think your getting ahead of yourself with the Generations becoming the premier telekinetic. As mentioned, the masters have incredibly strict standards not only on the power of their potential students but their moral standings. Somebody who learns and immediately gives out the knowledge to the rest of the Generations, some of which are NOT as morally upstanding and dedicating not to misuse their gifts as Jason probably wouldn't be considered as a potential student no matter HOW dedicated and powerful they are.

The Generation ability to split their brains temporal frame of reference is a side affect of the Generations ability to hold two separate tracts of thought at the same time. (Aka Jason could fully focus his mind on two things at once, like having a conversation with his guards AND paying attention to a council meeting). I don't really see a benefit of thinking 'normal' speed AND at 5 times the speed, but its probably possible to do so.

As Fel said, most of the true advanced powers in telekinetics deals with microkinetics, that is manipulating the world on a truly small scale like individual molecules. Macro applications are intersting but much more power intensive than doing things like making fire by exciting molecules and making 'cold' by slowing those same molecules.

Though you are right, the Pai Masters are fucking scary.

Jason seems to indicate her using telekinetics to manipulate quantum states of matter is giving him a better understanding of quantum mechanics which is really interesting. I wonder if those super advances aliens Fel mentioned in the backstory went the Pai route, basically discard 'technology' and do everything via telekinetic (IIRC that's the way some of the Elder Races in Babylon 5 went).

...if Jason can manipulate his quantum state to let him pass through objects, do you reckon its possible to manipulate HYPERSPACE with telekinetics? I doubt the Pai themselves know but it would be interesting. Either that or affect something like the translight drives in real space.

SYED
Child of Niami
Posts: 899
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:02 pm
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by SYED » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:09 pm

Generations are gifted in the fact that everyone of them are both telepathic and telekinetic. Jason has arranged that all members of his house are fully educated in their mental gifts. So at the very least they will achieve proficiency in telekinetic skills. The thing is Faey influence on the house is strong, and that means a competitive spirit and habit of showing off.

Due to their limited numbers and the fact they are one of house karrine greatest advantages, I believe they will attempt to develop their skill fully. They know and seen the advanced abilities, so it makes sense the most skilled would attempt to develop these abilities.

I wonder if there a peaceful application of the solar collectors, a way to make solar energies far more viable and useful. Anyone read that trilogy by John ringo, a character created a mining system using mirrors in space to collect and focus solar energies to melt asteroids and refine them. That would be so cool if they made that into a reality. In the books, using that system they inflated an asteroid into a mobile battle station. The usefulness of Karrine shipyard moon would make inflated asteroids a valuable asset.
.S.A.M.K.M

Kacoo
Initiate
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:40 am

Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by Kacoo » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:46 am

What my understanding is that now that the generations and too a lesser extent the Faey know that there is so much more to telekinetic skills they will quickly branch out as Faey use of telekinesis has been so stagnant for such a long time that now that they know there is such a wide field they may expand it relatively quickly(maybe in Jason's life time they will be able to expand the limits of telekinesis by educating the Pai in hyperspace theory).

SYED
Child of Niami
Posts: 899
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:02 pm
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by SYED » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:51 am

Efaey telekinesis due to their general lack of ability. Very few have the ability, and those that do have limited power.
In generations, they each have the gift and the weakest of any of them is stronger ability than nearly all telekinetic faey.
The Biogenic crystals can provide the power to enhance generation ability, and make telekinesis truly viable. Just as Jason is learning to provide him with an escape plan from the benga, general teaching of the gift would allow generations protection from those after their gift.
.S.A.M.K.M

Belgarion213
Da'Shar
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:31 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by Belgarion213 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:46 am

While Faey use of it has been largely constrained by the lack of adepts, part of that was being that the 'test' that the Faey used was not very efficent. hte princess of the Pai basically said it in this 'arc', that the Faey tested to young and thus missed. Jason went on to make a plan to test the entire household to see what the 'real' percentage of Telekinetics was. That, plus the general weakness of telekinetic ability basically meant they were used as a minor trick and or as assasination tools (Jason learned in one of hte earlier book to reach out with his mind and stop somebody's heart on demand, or force choke them Vader style), rather than levitating heavy loads or bending space.

Fel said in the one of the chapter comments that a lot of this stuff is going to be monumentally hard for most Faey, even generations. Microkinetics, aka the ability to affect things like molecules and particles is apparently very hard not because of the power required but the mental focus required to affect something so small. How widespread this talent is in the Generatiosn is unknown of course

SYED
Child of Niami
Posts: 899
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:02 pm
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by SYED » Wed Aug 15, 2018 5:06 pm

I wonder if the unique generation ability to divide their focus aid in learning the talent. I can see all the generations being capable in the normal telekinesis, and there will be those capable of masters. I am betting some generations would have a great affinity for a particular aspect of the advanced material. So some would be pyrokinetic, some can shield, others can deflect, make lasers, manipulate light, create kinetic strikes like gambit or cause explosive compression. A tiny fraction would be able to achieve things like phasing or time shifting as those would be more focused on the body.
.S.A.M.K.M

User avatar
kyli
Sui'Kun
Posts: 366
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:38 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by kyli » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:54 pm

Something changed with telekenetic abilities. Its used to be that in order to affect something you couldn't see, the trick was to "know" it was there. So far as I know, you couldn't feel or "observe" an object with telekinesis. That has obviously changed since Jason can mentelly enter the quantum realm with telekinesis. Is that because Jason is an order of magnitude more skilled and experienced, or did Fel change something?

I also have to wonder just what Cybi or another CBIM could do or figure out if they experimented with telekinesis. They certainly have the mental ability to do some of the more creative telekinetic tricks.

SYED
Child of Niami
Posts: 899
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:02 pm
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by SYED » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:12 pm

The built biogenic tech to augement generation abilities, could new gear be built to aid in these specific talents? To either amplify or aid in fine control.
.S.A.M.K.M

Belgarion213
Da'Shar
Posts: 192
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:31 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by Belgarion213 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:33 pm

Hmm...I'm not sure. The augmentative properties of the biogenic crystal were only a happy side affect, not a real aim of the Generation program. The way they have been increasing the power was mainly just putting bigger and more complex biogenic crystals around for the Generation to synch with. I'm not sure how you would get around to augumenting fine control.

That said, as kyli said, telekinetics have ot know what IS there to affect it so some kind of sensor hooked up to the gestalt so you can see what is there to affect it might work.

I've always wondered as the Kahrines put those booster relays for Cybi around if the generations were going to be able to effectively use their telekinetics over long distance (obviously through those sensors I mentioned). Of course if they did they instantly become the most powerful force in the galaxy (how would you like to have your palace telekinetically hurled into the sun because Jason was having a bad day on the other side of the galactic cluster? Yeah I know he wouldn't do that but its kind of terrifying that if he did solve the 'distance' problem he probably COULD thanks to his link with Cybi).

User avatar
kyli
Sui'Kun
Posts: 366
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:38 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Retribution, Chapter 12 [Spoilers]

Post by kyli » Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:57 am

SYED wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:12 pm
The built biogenic tech to augement generation abilities, could new gear be built to aid in these specific talents? To either amplify or aid in fine control.
"Fine control" as you call it has to do with skill and experience and maybe knowledge too. Biogenics can't help there unless you might be talking about using biogenic AI to somehow aid mentelly. Power is also needed of course but biogenics already amplifies power.

Post Reply