Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

[Fel]

I think its probably likely that somehwere over there in the Syndicate there is a telepath with the power to predict the future. We know, from Jason's internal comments that its exceedingly rare in telepathy (like 1%), and in non-fay telepathy is already less than that (like maybe 0.0001%) of the population. However the Syndicate has half a GALAXY to get likely candidates from.

Still, I'm fairly sure the Karines, like other noble houses, tried to breed in precognition into the bloodline. How successful it was...Then there are the mysterious talents that are not normal telepathy (aka the Shaman used them to banish the energy being who was lurking around on Karis).

Speaking of the medical nanites that were mentioned, I wonder what effect they would have on 'Talent'. Especially if they were created in the right way using Biogenic crystals...could the Karines have created something like a Gestalt 2.0? Though perhaps nanites are a bit small to properly use in that manner.

And you, sir, get a cookie. Benga precogs are exactly why they won the war against the Consortium. It's hard to beat someone who has a very good idea of who's going to win a battle before it starts.

But there's a way around a precog...if you're sneaky.

[MartinK]

But there's a way around a precog...if you're sneaky.

If the future is not determined, a precog will have trouble precogging it. Lets imagine we set up four attack plans far from each other. We send the fleet off with those four orders and let them arrive roughly in the center of those four places. Now they get to open one of those attack plans, based on some totally random variable. The number of plans, targets or fleets may be increased sufficiently.

Or maybe one fights precog with precog. It is a psychic gift and therefore there will be people in the confederation that happen to be gifted with it. Fighting by precog will sound silly in some ways. Send a fleet to attack a target, the enemy will learn of it and set up a trap. You plan to only attack with a quarter of your fleet to begin with. You take a precog with you. As soon as the precog notices the trap, you will send not only the ships you planned on but the entire fleet. Or come up with a plan to entrap those enemy ships waiting for you in some way. Upon which the enemy precog will react somehow to you again. Won't that entire battle be fought more or less like chess, being planned with a dozen moves in advance before the play even starts? And it will end before the fleet is send of with the words of your precog like this: "Stop, let's go home. We would have lost, no need to get our people killed."

Reminds me of another book.. or was it a tv episode? You and your enemy both possess time travel, either side starts to go back a little bit to counter your move, upon which you go back further to counter his, and so on and so forth.

Time travel gives me headaches. Aren't precogs sort of similar, just that it only happens in their heads and not in a time traveled reality?

[kyli]

I guess i get a cookie too....?

But something I'm worried about is the syndicates ability to know which battles would matter in the war and win them. One explanation came to mind as soon as I read it. I believe Fel mentioned precognition as a psychic ability and that it drives the person insane. Well the energy beings have some pretty amazing abilities. Maybe the syndicate have access to some other amazing psychic abilities themselves.

[expedient]

But there's a way around a precog...if you're sneaky.

Yes, but until we find out the in-universe "Rules and Limits for Precognitive Abilities" only you can be sure.

We have seen a few hints of precog abilities certainly in the Parri but we don't have confirmation of the Generations having the talent other than Jason's luck/intuition and shaman lessons.

Perhaps we need a list of psionic abilities seen so far:

• Telepathy
• Telekinesis
• Farsight
• Parri anti-Farsight
• Generation/Kimdori Communion
• Parri Ore-tree Communion
• Precognitives
• Listeners [private telepathy intercept]
• Energy-beings "Notice-me-not"?

Any others?

[Fel]

Pyrokinesis goes on that list (hint hint).

[expedient]

Does Kimdori bio-energy absorption go on that list?

Plus is warp-space different from telekinesis? [Seen when diverting the energy weapons in the palace and the GRAF cannon fire around Karis.]

[SYED]

I am kinda hoping Jason can use shaman skills when joined with Cybi. So those abilities get the boost. If the Karrines were running a program to enhance telepathic powers, then surely they would have attempted to enhance every version. We know that the kimdori did something to alter Jason and I think his kids. We know the kimdori were involved in the original project, i.e. Order if they did the needed alterations when needed.

[Fel]

Does Kimdori bio-energy absorption go on that list?

Plus is warp-space different from telekinesis? [Seen when diverting the energy weapons in the palace and the GRAF cannon fire around Karis.]

No, it's not. All telekinetics can affect space directly, if they're well trained. It's a very advanced technique. But it takes a very strong TK to do it on a large scale. Since Generations are all TKs, they had thousands of years to master it before the house was destroyed, and Cybi was able to teach that to the new Generations, it's no real surprise that they have that kind of training. The Karinne TKs, both Generation and non-Generation, are some of the best trained TKs you'll find anywhere.

[Belgarion213]

What do you mean 'large scale'. For example Jason is, IIRC, a pretty strong telekinetic. However without his gestalt he can't really lift much but WIHT it he is slinging around 4-5 tons IIRC. And if he uses that battle armour, it has a more powerful gestalt built in that pushes him up to 100 tons if I remember the numbers correctly.

Now obviously, Jason by himself isn't going to be warping the fabric of space and time (well on a large scale) but what could he do with this? If your warping space itself, are things like effectively short range teleportation feasible to a strong enough telekinetic? (in this I mean, I warp space/time so that I step forward on this side of the room, and emerge on that side). Obviously it would be wildly inefficient unless you could do it on a larger scale but... Or would such a warping basically be reserved for Jason merged with Cybi...assuming that a fine enough control over space itself was possible without sheering yourself to death by manipulating the fabric of reality like that.

Still, the fact that pyrokinetics is a straight up gift that can emerge is interesting. I wonder if the opposite wide is possible with that gift (that is, Cyronetics) and if the gift would be more likely, in that case, to be called thermokinetics.

[SYED]

Say the kimdori provide intelligence about the syndicate mysterious advantage, it might be enough to get the Ruu to provide their own knowledge of telepathic powers, combined with the Karrines program, could allow a new advancement.

Look at what the Karrines gained from examining consortium , catapult and translight systems. The systems might have been lower technology levels, but due to them being from different tech trees, or development, it gave the house new avenues of advancement. Who knows what they might gain from syndicate technology, the diffuser itself was a huge change to the dynamic.

[MartinK]

Pyrokinesis goes on that list (hint hint).

Why is it always fire? I don't even know the name for the same thing with water or ice, earth, air or wind.... aquakinesis? Anemoikinesis? Terrakinesis?

[Belgarion213]

Cyrokiinetics is the control of cold. To be honest I'm assuming that Pyrokinetics and Cyrokinetics are the same thing (control and movement of heat). We have already seen epople controlling water with telekinesis but nobody who can 'water bend' to steal a term from Avatar (that is direct water manipulation rather than doing it indirectly with telekinetic


As for the names

* Aerokinetics is direct control over air
* Hydrokinetics is the control of water directly
* Pyrokinetics is the ability to control fire
* Cyrokinetics is the ability to manipulate cold (probably a mirror of Pyrokinetics)
* Geokinetics is the manipulation of Earth

Though there are probably a dozen different names for them and who knows which one Fel will go with.

[MartinK]

Huh, so they do exist. I wonder why Pyrokinetics or Pyromancers are regular terms in modern culture, but the other ones you've listed I haven't seen even once.

On another note, both Pyrokinetics as well as Cyrokinetics can essentially be regarded as telekinesis. To freeze something, you have to stop any and all movement on the atomic level. If nothing can move, it is frozen. The reverse is the case with fire. To get something to burn, simply heat it up until it does. Movement equals heat. I can see how all other elemental kinetics could also be seen as highly specialized applications of telekinesis. Well, all but the elements of light and darkness, if there is such a thing. But if you can bend light, you get to be invisible. Yay!

[Belgarion213]

Modern Culture DOES have people with those powers...they just don't call them that. You ever seen Avatar: The last Airbender or Legend of Korra? Water/Fire/Earth/Air bending is a huge part of that. Anime at least has LOTS of people with elemental control powers. Flame of Recca, Yu Yu Hakusho, A Certain Scientific Railgun, and on and on.

Psychokinetic however is the one that has seeped most into popular culture both because of its immediacy (you have fire, burn that guy), and its being the most visually impressive.

They probably all are expressions of telekinetic might really, though I guess an argument could be made that there were people who START at Psychokinetic and have to work backwards to start doing things with pure force and so on and so forth.

And yeah theoretically invisibility should be part of the power but how well it could be done is questionable. First your bending light beams which are...well travelling at the speed of light. Unless you could make a passive effect that's going to be exhausting. Secondly, unless you are REALLY good your not going to line those photons up on the far side of you. Magic cheats a bit because it usually handles the heavy lifting but using psiconics you have to do EVERYTHING by pure willpower. That being said, making yourself invisible, or throwing fireballs at people, or lifting yourself from the ground to fly (how fast could Jason move himself like that) would be VERY impressive.

[Fel]

Pyrokinesis is a little different than what you guys are thinking about. It's actually a form of telekinesis so specialized that it's more or less its own power, since very few TKs are capable of it.

At its core, pyrokinesis is the ability to agitate molecules to incite heat...which is something that your average, everyday TK just can't do.

Pyrokinetic ability is something of the "baseline" of a series of telekinetic abilities known as microkinesis, dealing with the nano level, the ability to manipulate matter, energy, and space on a microscopic level. Pyrokinesis is the easiest of this class of abilities, and thus the first that most microkinetics learn.

If you think this isn't that impressive, or that it's not exceptionally powerful, think again. It represents a fundamental capability to see, comprehend, and interact with a different state of reality, to think outside the box and open ones self to an entirely different point of view. Microkinesis is the ultimate expression of telekinetic ability. Moving big things takes brute power. Moving tiny things takes an entirely different way of thinking, and a tremendous amount of intelligence.

Not even all the Generations are capable of this. But, I guess it's something of a spoiler to say that Jason, Myleena, Saelle, Jezzi, Jenn, Rann, Zachary, Kyri, and Siyara are. No other Generations have both the power to manipulate molecules and the intelligence to comprehend microkinetic techniques.