Chap 8 Spoilers

[Hearly]

Another thing that has been bothering me a bit Fel, Why haven't the Faey advanced much since the 3rd Civil War? Is that Zaa's doing? I mean it doesn't seem like it would take too much work after you figure out how to use Hyperspace for travel to try and figure out how to do it in Real Time, etc... The Faey just seem a bit too Stagnant for it to be "natural"

[dellstart]

Another thing that has been bothering me a bit Fel, Why haven't the Faey advanced much since the 3rd Civil War? Is that Zaa's doing? I mean it doesn't seem like it would take too much work after you figure out how to use Hyperspace for travel to try and figure out how to do it in Real Time, etc... The Faey just seem a bit too Stagnant for it to be "natural"

who's to say they aren't slowly working towards it.They just haven't had yet a Einstein to propel them forwards.They'd killed the Goose who laid the golden egg, when they destroyed the Karrines.

[Phantom]

Well I’m going to start with what’s known and work to speculation off that.
c. Group 3 is the ones that went to earth after leaving a planet in the Rim that had to have plant life or what would a xenobotanist be doing there. Also note that unlike the other two groups that had their scout ships fly off and wait for orders, this group decided to destroy the ship. Now taken independently those two points don’t seem suspicious, however together they are. They leave a planet that seems to be able to support life and then after arriving somewhere else they have the ship destroyed. That makes it look like they wanted no one to go to the planet they left. By destroying the ship and hiding on earth they left no trace of what they found on that planet. Because of the actions the other two groups, it appears that sending the ships off was a built in SOP for just such an emergency. If that is the case the actions of Jason’s ancestor seems mighty suspicious.

Where was it stated anywhere that the Ship that came to earth was at a Hospitable planet? I mean we can speculate all we want, all we do know is that there was a xenobotanist on The Ship who was a Generation., now does that mean they stop at every system they come across and check it out for any type of life? Does it have to be Livable for faey for them to explore it? etc..

I think we're assuming too much into fact which have not been shown nor proved.

I think we shouldn't assume that they were at a Livable planet for Faey, and decided to leave that one and come to Earth...

My Feelings are the Ship was just out researching Heard the Warning, and decided to keep going in the direction they were, or a direction that took them farther from Faey Controlled space and found Earth saw it was Livable for them, and decided to stay there.

I agree with you on the Hospitable planet part ....but remember they were out on the Rim ...they didn't keep going
they had to turn around and come back to earth. (thats the real question here) Why did they come back to settle on Earth?
and Why did they destroy their ship when the others just Sent them off to wait ?

Another thing that has been bothering me a bit Fel, Why haven't the Faey advanced much since the 3rd Civil War? Is that Zaa's doing? I mean it doesn't seem like it would take too much work after you figure out how to use Hyperspace for travel to try and figure out how to do it in Real Time, etc... The Faey just seem a bit too Stagnant for it to be "natural"

Oh the Faey have advanced ...it's the Karinnes that haven't advanced (go figure <Smirk>)
As for Hyperspace advances well they developed Stargates
One of the reasons can be seen in this quote

But things changed after the Second Civil War. After being awarded more territory, Caenry Karinne, the grand duchess at that time, sold off one of the gained star systems to raise money and used it to invest in her house’s research efforts. That was a name Jason recognized, not for Karinne, but her first name. The Caenry Theorum was the fundamental theorum of phased plasma physics. Jason had no idea that Caenry was a Karinne. A little more reading showed Jason that the Karinnes did way more than develop the fundamental theorum of phased plasma physics. Caenry was responsible for surrendering more than 75% of Karinne territory, but the money she raised went straight into research. Hard shields, the first spatial warping experiments, ion weapons, the basics of plasma power, hot plasma weaponry, and the first experiments in metaphased plasma weapon technology were all researched by the Karinnes. It could be said with high authority that the House of Karinne was the cradle of modern Faey technology. The stargates, MPACs, spatial engines, all of it could be traced back to groundbreaking Karinne research.

and this one that The Faey still haven't discovered yet .....but the Karinnes Ships all use.

Karinne engineers devised a means of modulating harmonic teryon strings to broadcast transmissions utilizing hyperspace. The energy particle was named in honor of Tery Karinne, who discovered it in 2329.

Teryon Based Tech .... it allows Karinnes to talk across and through hyperspace and powers their Engines and Systems.
As for the Faey advancing Danni Said that the 3rd Civil war Devestated the Faey and with House Karinne Gone they had to recreate a lot of stuff to get going again ....they lost their biggest RD source and the acadmey was no more.

Think about a war that almost knocks you back into the stone age and in the process destroys all of the public libarys and Schools. You have no one left to Research stuff or even teach others how to build and repair even the systems you still do have.

Even after 1300 years the Faey are still Recovering in a lot of areas.
Thats one of the major reasons i see that that all of the Races jumped at the chance to help the Karinnes rebuild the Academy ........the House of Karinne were known to all as the cradle of cutting edge technology. they were always the leaders in any feild



Phantom

[boballab]

Where was it stated anywhere that the Ship that came to earth was at a Hospitable planet? I mean we can speculate all we want, all we do know is that there was a xenobotanist on The Ship who was a Generation., now does that mean they stop at every system they come across and check it out for any type of life? Does it have to be Livable for faey for them to explore it? etc..

I think we're assuming too much into fact which have not been shown nor proved.

I think we shouldn't assume that they were at a Livable planet for Faey, and decided to leave that one and come to Earth...

My Feelings are the Ship was just out researching Heard the Warning, and decided to keep going in the direction they were, or a direction that took them farther from Faey Controlled space and found Earth saw it was Livable for them, and decided to stay there.

Look at it this way the Karinnes had a standing operating plan for what happened in the Third Civil war. When the planned activated Cybi went down into the crust to wait out the attack. Once the warning went out to all Karinne ships that basically told them to follow the SOP. Then look at what the crews of both the Scimitar and Exiles scout ship did. They both went to habitable planets, both left in dropships, both sent their scout ships away from the planet so the Imperium wouldn't find them. They did that so they could call the ships back after Cybi cleaned up Karis and return. That was the Karinne plan but things went wrong, they underestimated what Cybi needed to clean the planet so no recall order went out, The exiles Scout ship was found by the consortium and the Crew that left the Scimitar wasn't found even though the planet the Scimitar left them on should be in its database. Now contrast that to Zera Karinnes ship after they got to earth, they sent the ship into the sun so there would be no trace of anything. To prevent the Imperium finding them they could have just done what the other two crews did and send them off into the middle of nowhere and we know the ship would destroy itself to prevent capture. What they did at earth went far beyond that they erased any possibilty of getting off earth themselves and they also erased any possibilty of what they found to be discovered, even by other Karinnes. Cybi even expected Karinnes to return when jason showed up.

[Welcome home,] the projection told them. [Will there be others returning home? Are you the vanguard of the exiles?]

That shows there had to be a plan for the Karinnes to return even the Grand Duchess left messages for when the Karinnes returned.

“I am Yuri Karinne, Grand Duchess of the House Karinne,” she said quickly, looking at the camera. “This message is for you, the descendents of our survivors who have returned to Karis. Listen carefully, for I don’t have much time.
“If you are watching this message, then the last surviving CBIM has completed its decontamination of the planet, and you have come home. I order you, as the last of the 95th Generation, to abandon the project.

That shows that they weren't suppose to destroy the scout ships but have them go into hiding until they were recalled. So by destroying that ship Zera went against the plan.

You also over looked what Cybi said the mission of Zera's ship was:

[The only unaccounted for member of your line from that era is Zera Karinne, older sister of Zuy and Gora Karinne, a xenobotanist by scientific profession. Records indicate she was on a scientific expedition to a rim system at the time of the destruction of Karis. I would assume that instead of returning to the Imperium, she fled into unexplored space, and ultimately landed on your Earth.]
.

Right there it is telling you she went to a specific system not out wandering around. The Karinnes filled out a specific crew for a specific mission this wasn't a general survey mission or Cybi would have said she was on a scientific mission to the rim not to a rim system. That is telling you she left Karis to go to a specific Star. From there simple logic tells you that a xenobotanist is not going to be there to study orbital mechanics or techtonic drift, nope she would be there to study alien plant life. Unless that plant life was way off the wall it would then be a good bet that between their replicators and what life was there, they could have survived there.

[Weresmilodon]

Just got done reading the chapter Fel. Nice work.

Just one thing you might want to consider adding. Amber. We see her getting introduced, and then she's not mentioned at all for the rest of the story. I'd think we would at least get to see her getting introduced to the extended family, and maybe a reaction to either being moved to the shelter, or being left behind. Think about it a little, ok?

[dellstart]

Just got done reading the chapter Fel. Nice work.

Just one thing you might want to consider adding. Amber. We see her getting introduced, and then she's not mentioned at all for the rest of the story. I'd think we would at least get to see her getting introduced to the extended family, and maybe a reaction to either being moved to the shelter, or being left behind. Think about it a little, ok?

Dittos!

yeah , we should sic PETA , and any other crazy wacky greenie tree hugging weirdo groups on him! This is an outrage! Vulapr rights! Cold hard crass big businesses loving nature destroying capitalist! we will no be denied! We can even arrange some (faey ?) protesters to go nude to raise awareness for this cause! Let the masses be heard!!!!!!

[Phantom]

Just got done reading the chapter Fel. Nice work.

Just one thing you might want to consider adding. Amber. We see her getting introduced, and then she's not mentioned at all for the rest of the story. I'd think we would at least get to see her getting introduced to the extended family, and maybe a reaction to either being moved to the shelter, or being left behind. Think about it a little, ok?

Dittos!

yeah , we should sic PETA , and any other crazy wacky greenie tree hugging weirdo groups on him! This is an outrage! Vulapr rights! Cold hard crass big businesses loving nature destroying capitalist! we will no be denied! We can even arrange some (faey ?) protesters to go nude to raise awareness for this cause! Let the masses be heard!!!!!!

I agree and I'm still waiting for Jason to pull Buzz lightyear out of his little bag of tricks too.
Juat a little something to Send them all to infinity and beyond.

Phantom

[boballab]

I agree and I'm still waiting for Jason to pull Buzz lightyear out of his little bag of tricks too.
Juat a little something to Send them all to infinity and beyond.

Phantom

You just had to go there didn't you! My Litle Ponies were not enough... oh no you had to go for the Buzz Lightyear dolls! What next Furbies? Cabbage Patch?

[ANTIcarrot]

1) Jason wins
2) Along the way he becomes even more powerful and wealthy then he is now
3) He'll also add to the ever expanding collection of individuals willing to bow down and worship him at so much as a nod.
4) He will face no serious political opposition that the readership might agree with.
5) At no point will he face an enemy with blunt superiority in technology.
6) He will be forced to make no hard choices.
7) The people of Earth will remain faceless mindless spear carriers who never leave the very far background.
8) After pouring scorn on his enemies for brain washing 3 million humans, he'll fill their empty minds with propaganda from his own house. And get away with it.
9) One or two secondary characters will die.
10) Jason loses the last vestiges of his human social up bringing. And there will be much rejoicing.

And now that it's all over, let's see how they did, shall we? With the flawless benefit of hindsight...

1) On the one hand, yes. Unless the consortium pulls a technological rabbit out of it's backside (an anti interdictor/stargate field) Jason's won. As he said, they can survive for thousands of years in perfect safety. On the other it would probably take the consortium (say) 18 months to sail 20,000 ships through an interdiction field and conquer a system, with negligible loses. I assume their local stations are already ship building?
2) True, albeit explained via retconning. The vast untapped material wealth in his moonbase was not mentioned in the last book.
3) And indeed, he has expanded his harem in multiple ways - as well as earning the last of Dahnai's trust, even when she knows he doesn't entirely return the favor.
4) Turns out only criminals have a reason to disapprove of his plans. Oh, and corrupt dictators spurn an offer of alliance. As I said: Can't see the reader agree with either PoV.
5) Well, when has he ever faced this? Even during the Leigon he had massive off stage help. And a perfect understanding of Imperium technology. Something entire alien races have yet to manage.
6) I'd say true. I'd call a hard choice, "Someone is going to die. Pick who." Obviously you evacuate the colonists. Obviously you don't tell Dahnai about the Generations when there are easier way of doing things. Oh, wait.
7) True. Even while on Earth. Even when specifically discussing how non Faey view the Faey, greater humanity remains invisible. Which is kinda impressive really, in a way. A decade on and we still don't quite have a clear view of what happened on Earth during the subjugation.
8) The one human victim we see, yes. Most definitely. Jason vaguely wonders if this is right, but doesn't actually do anything about it. The rest at at the (alleged) tender mercies of imperial marines. And again, we never find out what happens at that fun happy point when there is still damage to be undone, but they have enough brains to ask what the filthy bitch whores were doing exactly when they were being enslaved, and why they should trust them now? Of course is they don't do that, for any reason...
9) I'll confess. I admit it. I got this one totally wrong. No non-mook deaths at all. Yet.
10) In hindsight I'm not sure what Jason has left of his humanity. So again, bit of a yes and no here. He does finally realise it though. Which is kinda spoiled by the vast number of times he's told us in the past that humans are just as bad as the Faey.

[dellstart]

1) Jason wins
2) Along the way he becomes even more powerful and wealthy then he is now
3) He'll also add to the ever expanding collection of individuals willing to bow down and worship him at so much as a nod.
4) He will face no serious political opposition that the readership might agree with.
5) At no point will he face an enemy with blunt superiority in technology.
6) He will be forced to make no hard choices.
7) The people of Earth will remain faceless mindless spear carriers who never leave the very far background.
After pouring scorn on his enemies for brain washing 3 million humans, he'll fill their empty minds with propaganda from his own house. And get away with it.
9) One or two secondary characters will die.
10) Jason loses the last vestiges of his human social up bringing. And there will be much rejoicing.

And now that it's all over, let's see how they did, shall we? With the flawless benefit of hindsight...

1) On the one hand, yes. Unless the consortium pulls a technological rabbit out of it's backside (an anti interdictor/stargate field) Jason's won. As he said, they can survive for thousands of years in perfect safety. On the other it would probably take the consortium (say) 18 months to sail 20,000 ships through an interdiction field and conquer a system, with negligible loses. I assume their local stations are already ship building?
2) True, albeit explained via retconning. The vast untapped material wealth in his moonbase was not mentioned in the last book.
3) And indeed, he has expanded his harem in multiple ways - as well as earning the last of Dahnai's trust, even when she knows he doesn't entirely return the favor.
4) Turns out only criminals have a reason to disapprove of his plans. Oh, and corrupt dictators spurn an offer of alliance. As I said: Can't see the reader agree with either PoV.
5) Well, when has he ever faced this? Even during the Leigon he had massive off stage help. And a perfect understanding of Imperium technology. Something entire alien races have yet to manage.
6) I'd say true. I'd call a hard choice, "Someone is going to die. Pick who." Obviously you evacuate the colonists. Obviously you don't tell Dahnai about the Generations when there are easier way of doing things. Oh, wait.
7) True. Even while on Earth. Even when specifically discussing how non Faey view the Faey, greater humanity remains invisible. Which is kinda impressive really, in a way. A decade on and we still don't quite have a clear view of what happened on Earth during the subjugation.
The one human victim we see, yes. Most definitely. Jason vaguely wonders if this is right, but doesn't actually do anything about it. The rest at at the (alleged) tender mercies of imperial marines. And again, we never find out what happens at that fun happy point when there is still damage to be undone, but they have enough brains to ask what the filthy bitch whores were doing exactly when they were being enslaved, and why they should trust them now? Of course is they don't do that, for any reason...
9) I'll confess. I admit it. I got this one totally wrong. No non-mook deaths at all. Yet.
10) In hindsight I'm not sure what Jason has left of his humanity. So again, bit of a yes and no here. He does finally realise it though. Which is kinda spoiled by the vast number of times he's told us in the past that humans are just as bad as the Faey.

1)It aint over to the fat lady sings, so who knows but he holds the upper hand for sure.
2)yes , bang on the money!
3)yes, the harem has indeed expanded to include every lass on the strip! Dahnai' and the urmni queen are just two of the latest total converts.
4)Dittos!
5)Technological no but numerical well yes.
6)Disagree on that one.Our boy has to have made many hard gut wrenching choices.
7)Have to agree there as well. we really don't know how Joe the Plumber feel about things. that might be a good topic for fanfic , which unfortunately is beyond my writing skills.
8)Hey its my way or the highway.Lesser of two evils i guess , no perfect solutions my friend.
9)Half right , cause someone is going to get whacked , its just a question or who and when and no longer 'if'.Maybe we should recast the votes???
10)I disagree, Jason is a cultural Faey ,due to adapting to the whole telepathic Faey lifestyle.The basic tenant of his Humanity are still in place.So is Tim's for that matter.I summed it up in post or two above.

[expedient]

Just got a chance to catch up.

Typical Fel evil plans, shattering all previous assumptions.

As I’ve said before, they need to find out who is fighting the Consortium in Andromeda. It’s possible, though I suspect unlikely, that some of the refugee Karinnes are involved. In any case, Jason and his allies need to prepare for any possible future actions by the Consortium should they send an even larger force to the Milky Way after they’ve conquered Andromeda. They could be exchanging information on new technology from inter-galactic allies within five years.

The Consortium may be made up of more than two races, so the gravity waves may not kill as many crew as Jason hopes.

--

I’m inclined to agree with Phantom in that there is a more important connection to Earth/humans than currently seen. Either a) a hidden base, or b) obscure genetic benefit to the Generation DNA. I also think that Earth, Exile and possibly other planets were already known by the Karinnes as Gora’s Law examples but they didn’t put them in the public databases to safeguard them from exploitation whilst the Karinnes studied them. Zera and the Exiled choose those two planets as they were ideally hospitable to the Faey.

--

I wonder if anyone (Dahnai?) will make the connection between those rare Faey that can spot Kimdori and the facts that a) they’ve all joined House Karinne, and b) the Kimdori are strongly aligned with House Karinne?

[Weresmilodon]

I wonder if anyone (Dahnai?) will make the connection between those rare Faey that can spot Kimdori and the facts that a) they’ve all joined House Karinne, and b) the Kimdori are strongly aligned with House Karinne?

Remember that this is one of the best kept secrets of the Kimdori race. No one, other then the Generation, who are also the ones capable of it, knows that some people can spot Kimdori.

[dellstart]

I wonder if anyone (Dahnai?) will make the connection between those rare Faey that can spot Kimdori and the facts that a) they’ve all joined House Karinne, and b) the Kimdori are strongly aligned with House Karinne?

Remember that this is one of the best kept secrets of the Kimdori race. No one, other then the Generation, who are also the ones capable of it, knows that some people can spot Kimdori.

Good points.

[expedient]

I wonder if anyone (Dahnai?) will make the connection between those rare Faey that can spot Kimdori and the facts that a) they’ve all joined House Karinne, and b) the Kimdori are strongly aligned with House Karinne?

Remember that this is one of the best kept secrets of the Kimdori race. No one, other then the Generation, who are also the ones capable of it, knows that some people can spot Kimdori.

Myleena was aware of her ability before she found out what it meant: I’m postulating that over the 1300 years some of the Generations who had forgotten their heritage ‘hired-out’ to spot Kimdori for counter-espionage purposes, much the same way listeners are used.

[SYED]

one of the biggest issues now that if they want to put a a gate in another system it wil take time to leave the system, so the best solution is to have the gate capable to seperate in to segments so can be sent out to the gate that alows access out of indictored space and easier to transport. also while karinne is generally the most advanced, it has been over a milenium things like gates and improved engines have come around so as a favour jason could ask for a full current technical database to add to cybe database, this combination may alow for improvement to be created, there has to be things that not avaiable to the imperium as a whole.
idea for tactic, the have access to comunications alter information so their jumps are in deadly aras like the nebula, also make them fire on each other saying kimdori have seized those positions, the comunications are important secret, so try not to lt them know about iy, also they know strengths, weaknesses, placements, logistics, destinations and goals. also the consortium should "capture" some ships, marbles or just a big bomb

If the consortium is defeated, then the imperium will emerge so much the more stronger as their space was protected, while the others were exposed. this would mean a period of expansion taking over system that were weakened and attacked, incorparating them. once this happens the usual tensions of the imperium would most likely appear, but this time the karinne will have a lesser technical edge, but a great deal of time for numbers to have been increased to off set the disadvantage. the best way to keep the houses in line is to use them to help set aup a attack point to the consortium, to kepp them on the defence or even attack the alliance or the skaa as they did attempt to betray the sector.