SPIRIT WALKER - CHAPTER 16 SPOILERS

[Mizriath]

Hmm... Interesting concept that magic has played a part in creating arcan ... besides the energy part of the spirit. I was trying to wrap my mind around the energy concept of spirits.

[Cougar2k2]

I had a hard time of understanding the energy concept too. It makes you wonder how Fel comes up and writes about this stuff. A rather large surprise about Umbra, not that she was a monster(we already guessed) but how she was created with Kyvens humanity. Didn't see that coming. Also about the human relation of the Arcans and how the Arcan species was created.

[dellstart]

I had a hard time of understanding the energy concept too. It makes you wonder how Fel comes up and writes about this stuff. A rather large surprise about Umbra, not that she was a monster(we already guessed) but how she was created with Kyvens humanity. Didn't see that coming. Also about the human relation of the Arcans and how the Arcan species was created.

No we didn't, see that one coming at all.

Poor bastard, gets in to one of those morally tainted questions, of a life for a life, just to regain his humanity.

Plus on the relationship side of things , his human waana be GF , has a lot of growing up to do.As pointed out ,She really doesn't delve at all below the surface. which is kind of suprisng for such an an analytically minded person.surrounded by so m,any Arcans. Maybe all it is is infatuation and not as KYV hopes the begging of something much deeper. I guess , once they finally have their fling, they will see where they both stand.

[Mistra]

this chapter was just...wow, it reminded me why i started reading Fel's stories in the first place.



Fel you could make a lot of money with writing like this...thank you for sharing it with us.

[expedient]

A lot of revelations in this chapter. Very exciting. I love how some of the concepts we've been debating have been worked out, full of subtlety and surprise.

The shadow powers, Kyv being the shadow, seem interesting. Also the fox still has two more spells to teach...

[Hearly]

I kinda think Fel put himself into a box with the explanation of how the arcans came about..

Thinking it through, that is how the original ones were created, but what about there decedents? if it took 1 human and 1 animal to make an arcan, how did there children keep there humanity? also why are there wild arcans without any humanity?

[boballab]

And they did not restrain themselves to just those who volunteered, or who they volunteered by force. Towards the end, anyone who was of no use to the war effort was taken to be used to create an Arcan. The old, the young, the ill, the mentally unfit, all of them were marched to the Arcan chamber and died to create soldiers that could fight.

There were more exotic ones, Arcans created from animals from other lands, but they lacked enough breeding partners to sustain their numbers, and they have died out over the years since.

The reason for the wild Arcans can be explained by the highlighted section. Not only would they retain their humanity it would stand to reason if their human minds weren't up to par their new arcan minds wouldn't be also. Remember also that at the end they were forcing children into the process so think of a 6 or 7 year old mentality in Arcan form. Now also notice the Shadowfox said that some breeds died out from not enough breeding partners, so that still leaves us with how can Umbra, Kyven and 3 kits be enough to sustain the Shadowfox Arcan breed. Finally the decendents of the original Arcans pass on their humanity the same way a human does to their children would be my guess, it would be ingrained into their DNA.

Plus on the relationship side of things , his human waana be GF , has a lot of growing up to do.As pointed out ,She really doesn't delve at all below the surface. which is kind of suprisng for such an an analytically minded person.surrounded by so m,any Arcans. Maybe all it is is infatuation and not as KYV hopes the begging of something much deeper. I guess , once they finally have their fling, they will see where they both stand.

The thing to remember about Danna is she has had her whole world view shattered. Take it in terms of the period after the US Civil War, you didn't see every white in the south accepting blacks as equals. You have to overcome centuries of built up propaganda and not everyone is going to change overnight. In Danna's context she was coming to terms with what happened to Kyven and was starting to get hope again when now here comes along a Shadowfox Arcan female. She gets told up front that Kyven has to have babies with this female, so she is afraid that when it comes down to it Kyven will remain Arcan to stay with his new family. Even if she would go to bed with Kyven in his Arcan form, she couldn't bear his children so to her POV she can't compete with a female that can. Also she doesn't know anything about how Arcans came to be, how Umbra came to be or anything. I have a feeling that once Danna gets left in Haven alone without Kyven or Tobey there Danna will have an ephinany of sorts (remember Fel still has that Kyven's blood in her loose end out there). Now we know that Humans were forced into becoming Arcans and I have a sneaking suspicion that the top Loremasters know this and either want to bring that back or already have. Remember Alchemy did this before so it can be learned again. What a perfect way for dealing with anyone that doesn't toe the party line, turn them into Arcans and slap a collar on them. Who is going to believe that they were once human, they are just dumb animals? Another important clue that was dropped by the Shadowfox, the Ancients didn't use crystals in their alchemy. So how did they manipulate Spirit energy? Was it just a scientific device? or maybe a renegade spirit helped them?

[GBLW]

(remember Fel still has that Kyven's blood in her loose end out there). Now we know that Humans were forced into becoming Arcans and I have a sneaking suspicion that the top Loremasters know this and either want to bring that back or already have. Remember Alchemy did this before so it can be learned again. What a perfect way for dealing with anyone that doesn't toe the party line, turn them into Arcans and slap a collar on them. Who is going to believe that they were once human, they are just dumb animals?

Just a few points to think about:
A. Dana is being coerced into heading up the Arcan army.
B. Since Danna carries Kyven's blood, the Shadowfox can easily trace her whereabouts etc.
C. If Danna is caught by the Loremasters, she will be considered a traitor for training the Arcan army.
D. I'm fairly certain the Shadowfox could 'arrange' that if Danna was being changed into an Arcan, she'd be a shadowfox.
E. Suddenly you would not only have Kyven acting behind the lines, but you might just have an Arcan who would understand the military beside him.
so
F. would the Loremasters be that stupid and egotistical?

[boballab]

Just a few points to think about:
A. Dana is being coerced into heading up the Arcan army.
B. Since Danna carries Kyven's blood, the Shadowfox can easily trace her whereabouts etc.
C. If Danna is caught by the Loremasters, she will be considered a traitor for training the Arcan army.
D. I'm fairly certain the Shadowfox could 'arrange' that if Danna was being changed into an Arcan, she'd be a shadowfox.
E. Suddenly you would not only have Kyven acting behind the lines, but you might just have an Arcan who would understand the military beside him.
so
F. would the Loremasters be that stupid and egotistical?

A. Danna I believe is torn on the issue of the Arcan Army. She doesn't want to lead an armed Arcan force but at the same time she doesn't want them defenseless.
B. The Shadowfox doesn't need Kyven's blood in her to find her whereabouts, I believe it has more signifigance then that.
C. In the eyes of the Loremasters she would already be dammned for her part in the crystal/slave operation.
D and E. I have a feeling this is where that "blood of Kyven" falls into place, but remember there is certain restrictions that the Shadowfox has to operate under when dealing with humanity. To get Kyven the way he was he had to be tricked into giving up his humanity. Also notice that the Shadowfox couldn't just take someones humanity for Umbra to use. I believe somewhere down the line the Shadowfox and Danna will have a face to face meeting.
F. Oh most definitly they are that egotistical. I also believe that after 600 years most of them believe their own propaganda. They have been raised in it since birth generation after generation. Oh the Top of the organization knows the truth, probably, but their entire power structure, civilization and economy is based on a bunch of lies so they have to stay with them. Kinda of like the old Soviet system.

[dellstart]

And they did not restrain themselves to just those who volunteered, or who they volunteered by force. Towards the end, anyone who was of no use to the war effort was taken to be used to create an Arcan. The old, the young, the ill, the mentally unfit, all of them were marched to the Arcan chamber and died to create soldiers that could fight.

There were more exotic ones, Arcans created from animals from other lands, but they lacked enough breeding partners to sustain their numbers, and they have died out over the years since.

The reason for the wild Arcans can be explained by the highlighted section. Not only would they retain their humanity it would stand to reason if their human minds weren't up to par their new arcan minds wouldn't be also. Remember also that at the end they were forcing children into the process so think of a 6 or 7 year old mentality in Arcan form. Now also notice the Shadowfox said that some breeds died out from not enough breeding partners, so that still leaves us with how can Umbra, Kyven and 3 kits be enough to sustain the Shadowfox Arcan breed. Finally the decendents of the original Arcans pass on their humanity the same way a human does to their children would be my guess, it would be ingrained into their DNA.

Plus on the relationship side of things , his human waana be GF , has a lot of growing up to do.As pointed out ,She really doesn't delve at all below the surface. which is kind of suprisng for such an an analytically minded person.surrounded by so m,any Arcans. Maybe all it is is infatuation and not as KYV hopes the begging of something much deeper. I guess , once they finally have their fling, they will see where they must both stand.

The thing to remember about Danna is she has had her whole world view shattered. Take it in terms of the period after the US Civil War, you didn't see every white in the south accepting blacks as equals. You have to overcome centuries of built up propaganda and not everyone is going to change overnight. In Danna's context she was coming to terms with what happened to Kyven and was starting to get hope again when now here comes along a Shadowfox Arcan female. She gets told up front that Kyven has to have babies with this female, so she is afraid that when it comes down to it Kyven will remain Arcan to stay with his new family. Even if she would go to bed with Kyven in his Arcan form, she couldn't bear his children so to her POV she can't compete with a female that can. Also she doesn't know anything about how Arcans came to be, how Umbra came to be or anything. I have a feeling that once Danna gets left in Haven alone without Kyven or Tobey there Danna will have an ephinany of sorts (remember Fel still has that Kyven's blood in her loose end out there). Now we know that Humans were forced into becoming Arcans and I have a sneaking suspicion that the top Loremasters know this and either want to bring that back or already have. Remember Alchemy did this before so it can be learned again. What a perfect way for dealing with anyone that doesn't toe the party line, turn them into Arcans and slap a collar on them. Who is going to believe that they were once human, they are just dumb animals? Another important clue that was dropped by the Shadowfox, the Ancients didn't use crystals in their alchemy. So how did they manipulate Spirit energy? Was it just a scientific device? or maybe a renegade spirit helped them?

True. I didn't think of it from that aspect.Kind of like, a certain were cat who was insanely jealous, when Tarrin was turned human.Its pretty hard , when you feel you cant compete for the one you want.

[Hallmist]

I'm suprised Kyven didn't persue how the Ancients used magic. The whole conflict is about how crystals, which are the basis for alchemical power, are running out. But the Ancients didn't need crystals! If the Arcans could discover that process, there's a chance it could prevent the entire war. Of course, there's also a chance it could revive the barbarous practices that the spirits will never allow.

Though as soon as the Loremasters found out the Arcans had that knowledge, they would attack. But it would open up so many possibilities for the arcan council to ponder.

[expedient]

I'm suprised Kyven didn't persue how the Ancients used magic. The whole conflict is about how crystals, which are the basis for alchemical power, are running out. But the Ancients didn't need crystals! If the Arcans could discover that process, there's a chance it could prevent the entire war. Of course, there's also a chance it could revive the barbarous practices that the spirits will never allow.

Though as soon as the Loremasters found out the Arcans had that knowledge, they would attack. But it would open up so many possibilities for the arcan council to ponder.

To be fair Kyven seems to miss quite a few "obvious" questions as events unveil. It's as if he has a very linear thought process. When he concentrates on only one problem he can solve them handily but misses the lateral implications. Maybe this is another part of why he is so good at cutting crystals, as he can concentrate on the work to the exclusion of everything else. This would also be useful in his training whilst doing little else for the last few months.

It should be noted that the shamans already can use the spirit energy without crystals, so they're already at risk if the Loremasters were to find out. (Not withstanding their shoot first, ask questions later policy towards them as monsters now...)

[miraborn]

To be fair Kyven seems to miss quite a few "obvious" questions as events unveil. It's as if he has a very linear thought process. When he concentrates on only one problem he can solve them handily but misses the lateral implications. Maybe this is another part of why he is so good at cutting crystals, as he can concentrate on the work to the exclusion of everything else. This would also be useful in his training whilst doing little else for the last few months.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. He had to Learn how to multitask when training on illusions. I had a momentary image of him trying to hold an illusion of a bracer on his arm and running right into a tree because he was focusing so hard on the illusion. He does seem to be a single-minded / one-track-mind kind of guy. To be honest, a lot of Fel's characters seem to have this trait. Tarrin was guilty of this - he had more than a few "smack the forehead" "why didn't I see that before" moments, as have Kit and Jason.

[Elsh]

My guess:

Dana will die in the conflict, she will volunteer to give Kyven her humanity and life through him and help him rather than just die.

[boballab]

My guess:

Dana will die in the conflict, she will volunteer to give Kyven her humanity and life through him and help him rather than just die.

I go more along of the lines of at the end Kyven stays Arcan, since I don't see him wanting to steal someone else's humanity. Danna gets injured or something along those lines and the only way to stay alive is to willingly become a Shadowfox Arcan, which having Kyven's blood will allow the Shadowfox to do it. This scenerio gives at least 2 breeding females, but somehow I keep thinking there will need to be more. Possibly the Shadowfox will have Kyven transfer the humanity from any Loremasters/Loreguard he kills into a Shadowfox monster, thus bringing the breeding pairs of the Shadowfox Arcan breed up to a sustainable level. Remember a Shaman can do anything that alchemy can do so it is possible. The thing about Kyven missing the alchemy without crystals angle can be explained that personally the news of his humanity being used to make Umbra and he can't get it back will override that little blurb.