Spirit Walker - Spoilers - Chapter 15

[hoppy]

She also doesn't want to see her breed, her children die out. Just wondering how Fel is going to handle getting around the whole Inbreeding aspect with so far having only one breeding pair, I have an idea but not sure if its right since there is still only the one male in the equation.

I'm thinking that if Umbra only has one or two children by the time they are ready to mate The Shadow Fox will be ready to transform a shadow fox mate.

[kabalman2000]

..^^^^^^--- (Ignoring boballab) Runs off into the fields of wild speculation. Oh look what pretty flowers. And who is that figure coming toward me? It's Dana, but she's changing into a shadow fox. (yawn) And there's Kyvin, but why is he human now? These flowers smell nice. I think I'll lie down ... zzzzzzz

[darkhand]

my earlier thoughts where not just wild speculation. They where some assumptions based on what we have seen. Like tarren kyl has come to see life in a very jaded way, and has become more my way is right, and given enough time in the way his thinking going, he will become very tarren like. as for the commentary on jason, just think how the shadow fox would love to have somebody with his imagination working for her. It is no stretch to see these two personalities growing together in this story. and anyway where else am i allowed to speculate without being yelled at about spoilling the story. I could just make my own thread, but then I would feel responsible to write regularly.

[expedient]

So yah, it's confirmed, though I made it fairly obvious. Umbra was created from a shadow fox, created from the other side of the hybrid state. Kyven was created from a human, Umbra was created from a monster, and both of them meet in the middle.

And yes, they're both Arcan, just as Arcan as any other Arcan. Their transormations were utter and complete. Chew on that for a while.

But, some of the issues you bring up here do, in fact, appear later in the story. The Shadow Fox is acting on her own, and she's taking very, VERY drastic steps. Steps that are highly frowned upon by the other spirits, but they can't tell her what to do. It doesn't work that way. Each spirit is its own "person," and they have no real "government" per se. They can frown on her actions, but unless they fight her, they can't really make her stop.

And some of them, secretly, understand that the Shadow Fox is simply taking steps to be ready for the worst-case scenario. They can hate what she's doing, but they can respect the fact that she has the guts to do it where others do not.

What it took to create Umbra will be revealed in the next chapter, which will also explain why there's only one of her.

And it might explain a few other things.

I guess I've always thought that Kyven was going to remain Arcan, at least part-time, ever since his transformation. Some of us speculated as to the significance of the blood Danna ingested. If some kind of exchange would allow a way to become human again. Now we have Kyv's illusions providing another way for him to become human again. In the end I don't believe the Shadow Fox eitherwants nor will permit him to permanently change back.

I still think that at some point the actions that the Shadow Fox demands of Kyven are going to put him counter to the other shamans directives, leaving him an enemy of both Loremasters and Shamans.

For those of you talking about the viability of a single pairing of Shadow Fox Arcans to produce a new species, consider that many subspecies start this way. Off-spring from a single pair that can no longer breed with the parent species and go on to be successful in a specialized environment. Often at the beginning there can be a large number of bad pairings, but not always. Humans are typically more sensitive to inbreeding than many other animals which often copulate in small groups. Males in other primate groups commonly attempt to dominate all the females and the Alpha will kill any offspring he believes not his own. Even in human societies where incest is common, bad pairings simply die young leaving viable adults. Infant mortality is traditionally very high anyway and so inbreeding is not always seen as the cause.

[Quindo Ma]

My thoughts about there being able to only be one transformation from shadow fox to arcan, is that the spirit hat to give up something crucial in order to do it.
To liken it to the universe in question, it's like fitting a crystal into an alchemical device: you can no longer use the crystal for anything else, and if you can't get a replacement, then it's a one time deal.

[dellstart]

Fox facts:

Behaviour

Interestingly, of all the members of family Canidae, foxes are the only canids that are not pack animals. Foxes are opportunistic, solitary hunters that hunt live prey such as rodents, using a pouncing technique that is practiced fro ma very early age. Foxes are generally skillful hunters and are able to kill their prey very quickly.

Since foxes are not pack animals, they do not come together as wolves or coyotes do, in chorus. Fox families do, however, communicate with a large variety of different sounds. These communication sounds used by foxes grade into each other and span five octaves. Each individual fox has its own distinct and individual voice. Fox vocalizations can be divided into two different groups: interaction sounds and contact sounds. Contact sounds are used by foxes over large distances, while interaction sounds are used by foxes in close range of each other.


Reproduction
Vixens come into heat once a year for one to six days. They give birth to four to seven cubs in a den (also called an earth), after a gestation period of 51-53 days. The cubs are weaned after seven to nine weeks, and become sexually mature after a year.

The number of cubs and the time of year in which the vixen gives birth depends on food availability



The kits develop very rapidly, tripling their weight in ten days. Their bluish grey eyes are open by their second week and the mother is able to leave them for brief periods of time. By the third week, the cubs are capable of moving around, and over the next ten days they begin viciously fighting amongst themselves to establish an order of dominance. It is also within this third week that the cub&acutes first milk teeth start coming in, although they will need another three weeks to acquire their complete set of twenty-eight. By week four, weaning begins. The kits are fed partially digested food, regurgitated by their parents. Although they are not yet able to eat solid food, the kits will also begin sucking on small pieces of meat, acquiring a taste for things to come. The mother still nurses her young, but will soon begin to discourage this by lying on her stomach when they try to feed.

The kits first leave the den by their fourth or fifth week. When they first appear, they are covered not by the familiar red fur of their parents, but by a sandy, grey-brown pelage that camouflages them well against the soil surrounding their home. By this time, a hierarchy amongst the cubs has been fully established, and they settle into the most carefree time of their lives. At first they don&acutet stray far from the den, ready to run back upon hearing a warning bark from their parents. They gradually become bolder and begin to explore their world. The kits delight in pouncing on insects, carrying around unusual sticks, leaves, or stones, and in rough housing with their siblings. They frequently stalk and chase one another, or will pounce on a sleeping brother or sister for fun. Some rivalry is still apparent amongst the kits, and they will still fight amongst themselves to get the most food. Nevertheless their play is not the aggressive dominance-related combat previously mentioned, but a method to learn hunting and fighting techniques needed in later life. This behaviour is almost puppy-like, and the previously mentioned body language such as the &acutelet&acutes play!´ posture ( head and front paws crouched low with the rump and tail wiggling around high in the air) or food begging gestures (nipping at the parent&acutes mouths) would appear familiar to a dog owner.

By the second month the kits are fully weaned, and by the third month they are able to catch small prey such as insects. As Summer arrives, the grey juvenile coat has yielded to the reddish hue of their parents, and the kit&acutes blue eyes have turned the golden colour adults. In addition to play, the kits begin accompanying their parents on hunting trips to sharpen their skills. At six months, a young red fox is fully grown and has most of the skills it needs to survive.


y autumn, the pups begin to disperse. They start to spend more and more time away from the home den until they finally leave to find their own territories. In some cases, particularly in urban environments, one or more juvenile vixens will remain with the parents for a year. Sometimes referred to as &acutehelper vixens´, these non-breeding foxes will assist in rearing their younger siblings by bringing extra food to the new family. On occasion, a helper vixen will continue to raise the kits if the mother dies. The accepted theory behind this altruism in female foxes is that the siblings carry half of the helper&acutes genes; therefore successfully raising a relative&acutes kits can be preferable over a possibly unsuccessful attempt to raise one&acutes own. Some studies suggest that the presence of these helpers have little or no effect on the well being of the family group. Regardless, the experience a vixen acquires assisting in the rearing of her mother&acutes cubs undoubtedly proves useful in raising her own family at a later time. (I recently saw a wonderful documentary about jackals on PBS, that covered similar helper behaviour in great detail, but I forget the name.)

With regards to dispersion, the males leave earlier than the females and travel farther, being less tolerated by their father. The young foxes will frequently invade the territories of other established foxes and get chased out. Eventually, they will either take over another fox&acutes range or find an unoccupied area of their own. At this point, the cycle begins anew, with foxes and vixens seeking out one another to begin a new generation.




So in light of this, I guess, perhaps as suggested above, Its the start of a deeper Maternal- filial relationship,warped as it might be,more than a pack based thing.Mother foxes do care for their off spring, and this is just her version , of giving Kyv the tool to survive in the wilds.


Plus, if Kyv has seven or eight kits, then you have a base for all future shadowfox's right these.

[ANTIcarrot]

Just wondering how Fel is going to handle getting around the whole Inbreeding aspect with so far having only one breeding pair, I have an idea but not sure if its right since there is still only the one male in the equation.

Well, this is hardly the first time in literature this problem has come up. He could always copy that solution.

Biologically it depends on how many modifications she's made to Kyven & Umbra. And about how inbreeding affects Arcans. They might be much more tolerant of it than humans are. Alternatively, Shadowfox could pay close attention and pragmatically abort any faulty embryos. (Or she could try to at least. Genetics don't seem her strong point.) She could also create more shadow foxes in the future. It's also possible that Umbra is carrying genetic material from other vixens in her body somehow. Magic ovaries or something...

Dana becoming a shadowfox? Hmm. There's definitely something about that idea that seems to resonate with the flavor of Fel's stories.

Now moving on economics...

Buying grain is legal. Buying up half the grain the kingdom is technically also legal (in that there is no law against it) but will quickly earn you attention from the authorities. Buying a significant fraction of the arcans on the market will have knock on effects. It'll drive their price up for a start. Breeding kennels will gain a sudden interest in where these arcans are going. (Will this be sustained market growth, or a ripple? Remember they have to predict the market three years ahead of schedule.) Their interest will be doubled when valued customers (the meat and clothing industry) complain that a sudden spike in prices could adversely affect their cashflow, and their ability to be such good customers. The one time businessmen will turn away money is when it threatens a regular income. Others might become suspicious why there isn't a sudden surplus of arcan-derived produce; particularly those who'd be worried by new potential competition.

[ANTIcarrot]

Fox facts:

While none of this is wrong, as such, it's important to remember that fox behavior can vary in different circumstances. Foxes in an urban 'target rich environment' are often more chummy, or at least more tolerant, of each other than country foxes. There are videos on youtube of tame foxes displaying pack-like behaviour. And there are the famous 'russian' foxes, which were very dog like, and yet still breedable with regular foxes.

The accepted theory behind this altruism in female foxes is that the siblings carry half of the helper&acutes genes; therefore successfully raising a relative&acutes kits can be preferable over a possibly unsuccessful attempt to raise one&acutes own.

Where as humans have altruistic reasons that are pure as the driven snow...
I assume this post was largely copied out of a book or web page? If not, do tell, as that would be kinda impressive.

It might surprise many that scientists aren't very scientific when it comes to animal minds. Basically, fifty years ago they went into a sulk because they couldn't easily measure intelligence, and childishly decided that animals didn't any. While this is a useful assumption for certain tests, somewhere along the way lots of people started to accept it as unquestionable gospel truth. Hence scientific views on animal behaviors have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Particularly in old books, or new books slavishly copied from old books. The above statement for example explains a likely genetic cause, but not what the vixen actually feels when she gives food to her younger brothers and sisters. For all we know she might be feeling nostalgically sentimental (I'm looking at you Fel!) about her own child hood from the previous year.

[dellstart]

Fox facts:

While none of this is wrong, as such, it's important to remember that fox behavior can vary in different circumstances. Foxes in an urban 'target rich environment' are often more chummy, or at least more tolerant, of each other than country foxes. There are videos on youtube of tame foxes displaying pack-like behaviour. And there are the famous 'russian' foxes, which were very dog like, and yet still breedable with regular foxes.

The accepted theory behind this altruism in female foxes is that the siblings carry half of the helper&acutes genes; therefore successfully raising a relative&acutes kits can be preferable over a possibly unsuccessful attempt to raise one&acutes own.

Where as humans have altruistic reasons that are pure as the driven snow...
I assume this post was largely copied out of a book or web page? If not, do tell, as that would be kinda impressive.

It might surprise many that scientists aren't very scientific when it comes to animal minds. Basically, fifty years ago they went into a sulk because they couldn't easily measure intelligence, and childishly decided that animals didn't any. While this is a useful assumption for certain tests, somewhere along the way lots of people started to accept it as unquestionable gospel truth. Hence scientific views on animal behaviors have to be taken with a pinch of salt. Particularly in old books, or new books slavishly copied from old books. The above statement for example explains a likely genetic cause, but not what the vixen actually feels when she gives food to her younger brothers and sisters. For all we know she might be feeling nostalgically sentimental (I'm looking at you Fel!) about her own child hood from the previous year.

Of course, its from a web page, that brilliant I am not. However , it does make for fascinating reading, and does shine light on the social and reproductive aspect of foxes.Which as we know , have a great bearing on our current story. It would be interesting,to see , if the shadowfoxes are different from the others socially, as the Russian foxes,seem from their other cousins.


Yay! 101 post, kinda feel like breaking out into a song!

[GBLW]

Actually, I rather enjoyed your quotation from a web page, since it reminded me of why I now read Fel's stories. I was doing a web search on foxes because my brother, Chick, recently deceased, had spent much of his last year working on the reintroduction of the "Kit Fox" otherwise known as the Swift Fox into southern Alberta. http://www.hww.ca/hww2.asp?id=105&cid=8
I was in the process of writing about Chick's work and when I typed 'Kit Fox' into Google, it lead me here, amongst other places.

Strange world huh? (By the way, the pair of foxes on my nephews farm has already had 5 kits this year- that makes 3 generations raised on the same place, so reintroduction is working.)

[Aightaight]

Hmm, so Kyvren is "just as Arcan as any other Arcan". I've been chewing on that, and had the following reaction:

Looks like the Shadow Fox not only took away his humanity, she also took away about 30yrs of his lifespan (remember the disparity between Human and Arcan lifespans?). That should give Kyv something else to be royally pissed about when he realizes the true extent of his change... Not to mention he's practically on the cusp of middle age for an Arcan already!

Of course, there's always the possibility that shadow foxes, being Monsters, have extended lifespans in comparison with normal foxes (with an equivalent extension for Shadow Fox Arcans compared to normal Arcans).

Actually, now that I think about it, why do all Arcans have the same life expectancy when they derive from different animals? Shouldn't a mouse Arcan have a shorter lifespan than a panda Arcan?

[furry_wolf2001b]

I did kinda touch upon the aging thing a while ago, -my- thoughts on it, and some other people mentioned that too, i think.(edit, i ment the agin factor, animal genes vs nature vs human genes vs nature and the rest)

As we are on these wherry interesting topics, i came to think on some things, lions and tigers for one, both are big cats able to interbreed somewhat, but way different social practices.
But i don't think fel mentioned a pack exactly, maybe extended family and friendly neighbor kind of thing more probably.
Depends probably allot on type of prey, and if a kill will feed em all, witch in turn becomes a issue on size of the shadowfox species.
Being able to take on deers may be good, but then a deer are not going to feed all that many usually.
It is why packs go for bigger stuff, and has to be big enuf to drag one down, or keep from being thrown off/keeping jaw grip.

I don't know really how raccoons and squirrels handle(if thats the right word) it, both are tree living creatures as shadowfoxes is mentioned to be.

One other thought spring into mind too, most tree living creatures are not all that big, but the shadow skill may allow them to break that rule, and the pack feeding rule too.
I mean if you can surround the prey, then the pounce may fail but still leave another one to take it down.
But as always, sneaking up is more easy for one then many.


I don't really think Kyven is a new Tarrin.
I see Tarrin more of a sledge hammer, and Kyven more like a rapier.
Tho no doubt Kyven will become awesome in his own right, especially if in the end he really can alter reality with his illusions.
If i read that right.

[miraborn]

I would be interested to see how the residents of Haven behave based on individual species - are those who are typically pack-based more inclined to do some job for the greater good? Are those that are lone animals keeping to themselves? Are those who are earning big bucks more inclined to an Alpha-male mentality?

There could be a huge sociological study done here on the relationship between base species, location of origin, whether the Arcan was a slave or born in Haven, etc.

-M

[expedient]

There could be a huge sociological study done here on the relationship between base species, location of origin, whether the Arcan was a slave or born in Haven, etc.

Love it! But, how are we gonna get the study team into Fel's head?

[miraborn]

Love it! But, how are we gonna get the study team into Fel's head?

Not Fel's head - how about Danna's? She's pretty much just sitting there twiddling her thumbs waiting for the next council meeting - she can do the work and just output the results of the study to this thread.