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I have been reading the DeathStalker trilogy/universe and in one of the books it reminds me of this setup that Fel has created. A world where there was once technology. That was being terraformed by large scale nanotech that went haywire. The nanotech in the planet lost its AI directives and the humans on the planet end up thinking they are "Spirits". A few can communicate with these "Spirits" and the "Spirits" take care of the planet.

So could the Spirits in Spirit Walker be AI tech that somehow was injected into a slightly different but parallel dimension or out of phase with this dimension or into a higher energy state portion of this dimension and somehow survived and matured/evolved into the creatures/representations that they are now? And the intelligence of the Arcans (definately lab created creatures somewhere in their past) could be attributed to Nano tech AI and those who are born wild are those that reject the nanotech AI. This could also be why the Arcan's have the largest number of Shaman as they are "adapted" to communicate with the AI spirits.

This brings me to my question about Kyven: What makes him so different as a human? Could he have been descended from a line of humans experimenting with Nano tech enhancement?

Fel any comments?

J-Man5

Pretty interesting.

We know that Shamanism is a genetic ability passed through breeding to future generations.

The scene where Kyven impregnated the prostitute indicates that much, so where is Kyven from? Might one of his real parents been an arcan?

Elsh wrote:Pretty interesting.

We know that Shamanism is a genetic ability passed through breeding to future generations.

The scene where Kyven impregnated the prostitute indicates that much, so where is Kyven from? Might one of his real parents been an arcan?

I don't think a full human can cross breed with an Arcan, same way Fel spelled out that Arcans of one breed can't mate with another of a different breed. We know as fact that the Ancients used weapons that damaged the land. We know the Ancients are on a technical level the same as us, so we can assume they would have WMD's. Nuclear weapons can produce Mutations that is established fact, so maybe the ability to be a shaman is a mutation and it took alot of selective breeding to get the right genes to produce a human shaman. It would be more probable that Kyvens parents were both Humans just below the cusp of being Shaman themselves. However the way Kyven's father reacted it makes you wonder if he knew about the Spirits.

While his father held him in his arms, he saw the fox sitting in the window, just looking at him. It was the only time he ever told anyone of it. When he described what he saw to his father, his father explained just how dangerous it could be if people knew what he’d seen.

Kyven's father could have been in the Masked and would know about the spirits that way but you never know.

I also think arcans are a created species, be it by humans or spirits i don't know.
But one thing, considering some spirits in our universe and tales about their conduct..
Could kyven really be related to the shadowfox spirit?
Could even be she is his real mother. O_o
Or that she changed him and his father knew something of it.

"Luke, i'm your father" kind of deal, sorta.. lol
Hmm, she is a master of illusion, so maybe that as well.. lol

boballab wrote:I don't think a full human can cross breed with an Arcan, same way Fel spelled out that Arcans of one breed can't mate with another of a different breed. We know as fact that the Ancients used weapons that damaged the land. We know the Ancients are on a technical level the same as us, so we can assume they would have WMD's. Nuclear weapons can produce Mutations that is established fact, so maybe the ability to be a shaman is a mutation and it took alot of selective breeding to get the right genes to produce a human shaman. It would be more probable that Kyvens parents were both Humans just below the cusp of being Shaman themselves. However the way Kyven's father reacted it makes you wonder if he knew about the Spirits.

We also know that up until a few weeks ago, Kyven was human. It is out there but within the realm of possibility that the spirits meddled in his life in order to accomplish something. He might be a cross-breed, maybe his mother is/was a shaman under a spell that made her look human (his totem is the spirit of guile and deception). To be completely honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the Shadow Fox is Kyven's mother.

Only thing that I can't explain and which works against my theory, is where the prostitute got her shamanism from.

Kyven's father though reacted the way most parents would to hearing that their child had an imaginary friend. It can't be helped or disproved, so you do the only thing you can, humor the kid and keep them from embarrassing the family while in public.

Elsh wrote:We also know that up until a few weeks ago, Kyven was human. It is out there but within the realm of possibility that the spirits meddled in his life in order to accomplish something. He might be a cross-breed, maybe his mother is/was a shaman under a spell that made her look human (his totem is the spirit of guile and deception). To be completely honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the Shadow Fox is Kyven's mother.

Only thing that I can't explain and which works against my theory, is where the prostitute got her shamanism from.

Kyven's father though reacted the way most parents would to hearing that their child had an imaginary friend. It can't be helped or disproved, so you do the only thing you can, humor the kid and keep them from embarrassing the family while in public.

The Shadowfox being his mother I wouldn't go with but I think you might be right that Kyven's mother was an Arcan Shaman at one point. Kyven isn't the only Shadowfox in existence, they live right outside of Atan.

I am the spirit of the shadow fox, and it was by my will that the shadow foxes came to be in the world.
“I’ve never heard of them.”
They are there. They hide, for your kind would call them monsters. They shun most areas settled by humans, but there are some few who live near Atan.

So we know Shadowfoxs live near Atan, what if Kyven's mother was a Shadowfox Arcan that made a bad bargin with the Shadowfox and her punishment was to become Human. It fits with what we know about the Shadowfox, Kyven's mother gets turned Human, falls in love with Kyven's father and bears Kyven. That would be something the Shadowfox would do. Also we know Arcans have a shorter life span then humans so that could explain why Kyven's mother died. It would also explain this little tidbit:

And unlike many crystalcutters, Kyven was enormously strong, almost as strong as an alchemist, but it just seemed to be a natural strength. Kyven didn’t swing a pick or shovel, didn’t hammer metals, didn’t push a plow or hoe crops. He sat at a workbench and delicately cut and shaped crystals all day, and yet he was easily as strong as the alchemist apprentices, who spent long hours pounding hot metal and mixing liquid metals to produce alloys.

Arcans are stronger then Humans and his strength that he naturally seems to have could come from his mother. Aslo did you realize we have never heard what happened to Kyven's father after Kyven became an apprentice? I think you hit it on the head about his mother being at one time an Arcan and I still think his father was in the masked. I think Kyven's mother and father might have been like Stripes and Clep and it would explain his father's non reaction to Kyven seeing the Shadowfox. If this is correct then in a way Kyven is related to the Shadowfox, since she created the Shadowfox Arcan's. Think of her as a many times removed Grandmother. It also explains why the Shadowfox was so vehement about not letting any of Kyven's children be killed and the way she said it.

I would not permit that. You are mine, Shaman, as are your progeny. I did not introduce the powers of my foxes into the Arcans to watch them slaughtered for their fur. (I but the emphisis as written in the story)

If you noticed she said that she introduced the powers of her foxes into the Arcans, not into a Arcan and the way she stressed mine. If you are correct about Kyven's origins it changes the whole complexion of that statement. From one of a controlling Spirit to her Shaman, to a Creator or Grandmother figure not allowing Harm to her descendents. The other side of the coin could be Kyven's father was a Shadowfox Arcan Shaman that made a bad bargin and got turned into a human. His mothers death was just an unfortunate coincidence. This way would explain why and how Kyven's father just fell out of the story. By having Kyven, his father pleased the Shadowfox and was returned to Arcan form. With all the Shaman being recalled to Haven, if Kyven's father was a changed Arcan Shaman, he could meet his father there. Wouldn't that blow Kyven's mind and put a new spin on things.

He could still hear that voice, just like it was yesterday. And it was the last time he'd ever heard his father's voice. His father died in a mine accident six months after Kyven began his apprenticeship… which put even more pressure on him at his first year test.

Kyven's father is dead.

He was unique. Before, he was the only human Shaman. Now, he was the only shadow fox Arcan.

This is said by the Narrator/Fel not by Kyven, this is before Kyven has seen himself. So for all intents and purposes its a fact.

I think that he was made by an arcan shaman in disguise and a human but I don't think that arcan was a shadow fox. There's been enough commentary about his fur from other arcans that I seriously doubt its ever been seen before. Arcans are highly social creatures, if one did exists it would be extremely cruel for it to have been kept in secrecy and isolation.

You made some great points though, I'm in awe of your ability to find and remember the details. I want to do a re-read but I'm waiting until the book is done/almost done before I do so. That way the ending makes more of an impact.

Here is the Full conversation between the Shadowfox and Kyven:

I would be a poor totem to punish you for curiosity, given I consider it to be an admirable trait, she communicated with light amusement. Do not assign such traits to the spirits. We appear as we wish to appear. I am the spirit of the shadow fox, and it was by my will that the shadow foxes came to be in the world.
“I’ve never heard of them.”
They are there. They hide, for your kind would call them monsters. They shun most areas settled by humans, but there are some few who live near Atan.

Your people have never seen one of my children, she added lightly. They have the power to meld with the shadows, making them invisible in the night. That is how they hunt.
“A sensible way to go about it,” he noted. “Do they eat crystals?”
No. They absorb the energy to grant them that power from the spirit world. It is a minor power and does not require so much energy as a crystal holds to enact. It is for them the same as spirit sight is for you, a passive ability.
“Ah. I understand. Does that make you a powerful spirit? I mean, you created your own breed of fox.”
She seemed amused. Again, do not assign such things to the spirits. Such an observation would be extremely offensive to some. We do not measure ourselves against one another in such ways. We all merely are.

This was done while Kyven was a Human and it clearly states there is already Shadowfoxes in the world that live near Atan. Humans at that point have never seen them and the Shadowfox created them and from the way she talks there is more then one so the comfort angle is taken care off. Now as to the other Arcans remember the Shadowfox tells you they are in hiding, if the Shadowfoxes don't want to be found they won't be found by anyone including other Arcans. They hide in the Shadows.

She had turned him into one of her own. She changed him into a shadow fox Arcan.

This sentece by Kyven illistrates that he now belongs to the breed of Arcan that the SHadowfox started. If he was the first and only the sentence would have been different, something along the lines of : "She turned him into a new breed of Arcan, her own breed. She changed him into a shadow fox Arcan." Now we either have a continuity problem or maybe Fel forgot to put one little word at the end of that other sentence and it should have went like this: "He was unique. Before, he was the only human Shaman. Now, he was the only shadow fox Arcan Shaman."

The story narrator says that he's the only Shadow Fox Arcan, the shadow fox says that there are plenty shadow fox monsters. I don't see any contradiction in the two statements. The arcans know all about the shadow foxes, clover even told him that she knew about them and their powers.

Elsh wrote:The story narrator says that he's the only Shadow Fox Arcan, the shadow fox says that there are plenty shadow fox monsters. I don't see any contradiction in the two statements. The arcans know all about the shadow foxes, clover even told him that she knew about them and their powers.

No re-read the sentence again the Shadowfox doesn't call the monsters, she says the Humans would call them monsters if they saw them. Because the Humans would call them monsters doesn't make them so what they are are Shadowfoxes. But this is small compared to the possibility that one of his parents was a transformed Arcan shaman of any type. What I'm really interested in now is what his Shadowfox powers can do. I hope that Fel doesn't drag the winter out to long and/or not explore those powers.

Every time I remember that Kyv has done little but speak to Clover and still hasn't asked what the other powers are, I lose a little respect for Kyven.

Elsh wrote:Every time I remember that Kyv has done little but speak to Clover and still hasn't asked what the other powers are, I lose a little respect for Kyven.

Just the opposite, i think that it shows how dedicated (or bound)he is to his own Totem.The others literally don't exist for him.They don't have have any influence or place in his life.Plus hes totem don't seem like the sharing type.

dellstart wrote:

Elsh wrote:Every time I remember that Kyv has done little but speak to Clover and still hasn't asked what the other powers are, I lose a little respect for Kyven.

Just the opposite, i think that it shows how dedicated (or bound)he is to his own Totem.The others literally don't exist for him.They don't have have any influence or place in his life.Plus hes totem don't seem like the sharing type.

Kyv asked clover that almost the first thing when he met her:

Spirit Walker - Chapter 11 wrote:“Are you going to teach me, Clover?”

She shook her head. “That is between you and your totem,” she answered. “I can’t interfere. She will teach you what she wishes you to know. I will give you no direct instruction.”

He caught that. She said she would give him no direct instruction. But, if he happened to see her use magic and tried to copy her spell, well, there wasn’t much she could do about that.

That quote applied to Clover teaching him Shaman spells. Only the Shadowfox is allowed to teach him spells, but if he figures out how one is done by observing how Clover does it the Shadowfox is happy about that.

“You won’t teach me?”
No. The power of shadow is my gift to you. I will not teach you, you must learn on your own, as any shadow fox kit must learn without any help from its mother. You will find, in time, that the gift I have given you can rival your Shaman magic in some ways.

“He would change his words now if he could see you,” she said, looking him up and down appraisingly. “What species are you?”
“Shadow fox,” he answered. “She made me like her.”
“Ah. Practical, I suppose. Can you do what the foxes do?”
“I was told that I can. The only trick I’ve learned so far is the blending trick.”
“Well, we’ll have to see what else you can do,” she said with a gentle smile, releasing his hands.

As the above quotes show the Shadowfox will not teach him about the Shadowfox powers he must find his own way. The Second Quote implies that Clover knows something about those powers and she will be willing to help Kyven explore those powers.