Spirit Walker Spoilers - Chapter 14

[Phantom]

Ok a few things

One someone said they did think arcanes were engineered ...

http://forums.sennadar.com/viewtopic.ph ... 078#p14350

In the redo, which I'm aiming to be a "novella" length story, the humans are the technologically savvy race, and the "furry" race, the Arcana, would be the ones connected to power of magic. The humans are technologically adept, akin to America in the 1700s, but used to be much more advanced. Humans used to have machines that traversed the sky and buildings that touched the heavens, but their civilization was destroyed in what was known only as The War, when humanity turned on itself. The destruction of humanity's great civilization caused the power of magic to emerge, literally as the war raged across the land, and the Arcana appeared along with it. But while humanity seeks to regain its lost knowledge, it has also begun to touch on the magic of the Arcana. Since the Shaman appeared two hundred years ago, only Arcana were capable of using magic, but recently (in plot reference) humans have begun to show magical aptitude, the power to harness and control the power of magic and the power of the spirit world, to become Shaman.

Humanity and the Arcana do not get along. When the Arcans appeared they were simplistic, primitive, without even their own language. Humanity enslaved them, even used them in their war as soldiers, but after the world-shattering war, the lot of the Arcana did not improve. Though stronger and more durable than humans, they lacked education and intelligence to resist the human race, and remained enslaved for thousands of years as the human race dropped from its pinnacle into a near-stone age existence after it consumed all the remnants of its past glory, then slowly clawed its way back towards its former glory. During that time, the Arcana were the backbone of human labor efforts. It was the Arcana that built the new great cities of Eusica, the first dynastic human civilization to rise of the ashes of the great ancestors. Arcana mined the ores, worked the fields, and were often abused and treated like the animals they resembled. But over time, the Arcana changed. Though humanity saw them as stupid and savage, Arcana were actually as intelligent as humans, only lacking education. Arcana began to show more intelligence, began to develop their own culture, albeit a slave culture, and began to question their lot as slave labor for their inferior masters. But the human technology always kept them subjugated...until the Shaman appeared. Shaman were an anathema to humanity, for every one of their ancient religions saw the power of the Shaman as evil, as witchcraft, as demonic in nature. But the one thing the humans couldn't deny was the power of the Shaman, for Shaman could use their magic to stop human weapons from harming them, countered their crossbows and their powder muskets and grenades. Shaman began helping Arcans escape from bondage, form hidden settlements in remote, hidden tracts of untouched wilderness, and worked to free the Arcana from human enslavement. The power of the Shaman began turning the tide for the Arcana, forcing humanity to reassess their opinion of the race, and also touched off a new round of anti-Arcana violence and hatred as humans began to realize that their former slave race had developed a defense against them.

The new Legacy would study this unusual world where the remnants of a once-powerful human race seek to rediscover the mighty secrets of their ancestors, while they contend with the Arcana, who are bigger than them, stronger than them, faster than them, and have Shaman who can wield the power of magic, yet whom they enslave because humans are more educated than Arcans (but not necessarily smarter), and the human race outnumbers the Arcana by one hundred to one. But when humans begin demonstrating a connection to the spirit world and the ability to wield magic, conflict erupts within the human race as they try to come to grips with this new revelation. Does humanity continue to try to reclaim its former glory and rediscover the power of their lost technology, or do they walk down the path of the Arcana and explore their new ability to use the power of magic? It seems, though, that it cannot be both. Walking the path of the spirits requires the walker to reject the power of technology, to embrace that which is natural, to use technology to enhance the natural world, not usurp it. But there is true power in both paths. The power of technology, and the magical power of the Shaman. For the power-hungry humans, desperate the recover the glory of their ancestors, it is a dilemma.

And thus lies the conflict.

It's a question for a race, but a personal quandary for Vik, a young human who has begun to see strange things and hear mysterious voices, and comes to understand that he's seeing the Spirit World, hearing the voices of spirits and is starting to touch on power that his village has always taught him was the purview of the heathen Arcans, the power of witchcraft, the touch of the devil. Vik's attempts to puzzle out what's happening to him is only clouded by an Arcan wanderer who comes to their village, a frightening wolf with coal black fur and yellow eyes that epitomizes everything Vik ever heard about the Arcans. He is huge, powerful, savage, and terrifying...and he has quite unwillingly come to Vik's village of Ataln because the spirits have commanded him to take a hated human as his apprentice...and Shaman heed the voices of the spirits no matter how they feel about it.

For Stalker, it's an intolerable situation, but there is little he can do. Shaman do not go against the commands of the spirits, not matter how much they hate the commands they are given. Stalker hates humans as much as humans hate his kind, and to be ordered to take a human as an apprentice seems to him to be both an insult to him and an affront to the Arcana, to instruct a human in the secrets of his people, secrets that are their only defense against the technology of the humans that enslave them, abuse them, murder them, and use them in vile, unspeakable ways for nothing other than sport and amusement.

As you can see from Fels message one part suggests that Arcans were Created when the Breach occured
the other seems suggest that Arcanes were used in the war that caused the breach.

so i guess untill Fel decideds to let us know for sure there isn't a true answer for this yet.



Now i had a SWAG of my own here ...

The Breach created the Crystals ......but it also created Shaman.

Now it took a lot of Years for Shaman to show up .....First in Arcans now in Humans as well ....

Reason....... Breeding does have a lot to do with it but not like a lot of you are thinking.....
I mean Blood lines do seem to help to bring it out but

One reason Archans have had shaman longer is they live shorter lives and breed faster then Humans do.

This is the Reason they are just now starting to see Human Shamans Born.

Also i think it's a first step for Human or ( Earth ) sprits to begin to be Created/born



Phantom

[hoppy]

Ok a few things
One reason Archans have had shaman longer is they live shorter lives and breed faster then Humans do.

This is the Reason they are just now starting to see Human Shamans Born.

Also i think it's a first step for Human or ( Earth ) sprits to begin to be Created/born



Phantom

I have a feeling that there lives are going to get longer to. The what ever caused arcans seems have causesd a forced evolution toward sentience and dactylism, started with animals as a basis. So I don't think the process has finished, considering how long sentience took.
Another thought, these are the words of Fel. He is a capricious god who loves to confound, and those words were but an advisement, much of which has already changed.

[boballab]

There can also be other factors in living longer then just evolution, if you use Humnas as an example. Stone Age humans life expectancy was the early thirties and didn't get much better until Humans Science and Medcine improved beyond simple bandages. Once Humans learned the importance of maintaining their teeth, about infections, dietary needs coupled with better working and living conditions we started living longer. Humans went from people in the 1800's expecting to see 50 or 60 years to now expecting to see 75 or 80 as the norm. Once Arcans start down that path you could probably expect them to start living longer too.

[hoppy]

Here's some problems I see with the Shaman trying to replace crystals.

1. Some Shaman are restricted into making only 1 color crystal ie: Coldfoot can only make Red Crystals, some Shaman can't make crystals. So with only around a thousand Shaman they would be very hard pressed making enough crystals to slow down what is happening.

were do you get idea some shaman can't

2. The power to make the crystals come from the spirits. As a whole the spirits want to get the humans to stop using crystals. The spirits can block the Shaman from making replacement crystals.

I don't think you you should draw to many conclusions on how shaman magic works

3. Then there is the fact the Shaman would have to try and sneak around and place crystals in the right spots. If even one Shaman got seen messing with crystals by a human not part of the masked it will cause problems. Remember the people as a whole are Christian in their beliefs and Shaman are suppose to work for an evil force. Anything evil means its of the Devil and your average uneducated citizen isn't going to go down that road. This may even cause them to shun all crystals thinking the evil force tainted them. Remember how bad a reaction Kyven had about Shaman back in Ch 1and he already had doubts about Shaman being evil.

4. There is only a few Shaman that interact with the Human world. Most Shaman stay in Arcan territory and have duties there. So if you take those Shaman away Arcan towns and society would suffer.

As to this they don't have to leave their posts to make crystals, and send them to others.

[hoppy]

There can also be other factors in living longer then just evolution, if you use Humnas as an example. Stone Age humans life expectancy was the early thirties and didn't get much better until Humans Science and Medcine improved beyond simple bandages. Once Humans learned the importance of maintaining their teeth, about infections, dietary needs coupled with better working and living conditions we started living longer. Humans went from people in the 1800's expecting to see 50 or 60 years to now expecting to see 75 or 80 as the norm. Once Arcans start down that path you could probably expect them to start living longer too.

They already have started this, their whole life cycle is or maybe was shorter. Remember, the figures they have are automatically old, Humans really don't pay that much attention to arcans, arcans living longer would discredit their inferiority to humans, and the only figures we have are from humans.
On another thought they may actually be smarter, since they have shorter childhoods, and adolescence to learn in.

[boballab]

Fel in his original outline stated that they were just as smart as Humans. I think what sets them apart is their drive and oppratunity to learn. We see it in our own society, no matter how smart someone is, if they don't want to learn they don't, if they don't get the chance to learn they are left behind. The scene where the children went to learn from Tallspan I think illustrates this. The young Arcans want to learn from the Shaman and are given the oppratunity to do so. That of course touches on the young Humans, if you remember back in Ch 1 when the new apprentices showed up at Master Holm's shop. The young that went into Alchemy and Crystal cutting got to learn because thats what they needed to be able to become Alchemists and crystal cutters. The young that didn't make the cut along the way ended up working mines or other labor intensive occupations, so they didn't get the oppratunity to learn. That to me is the difference right there.

[furry_wolf2001b]

Yeah Arcans will live longer as their lives get better, up to a point.
They seem to grow wherry fast, witch i think will go hand in hand with aging, sadly.
You have also take into account that humans around also don't get all that old either.
Humans are after all living in abut 1700-1800 conditions.
While crystals are miracle workers, the day to day grind is just the same for almost all, unless you got the cash.
And i think it has been stated that certain sicknesses are not something you can normally cure even then.

[ANTIcarrot]

One someone said they did think arcanes were engineered ...
http://forums.sennadar.com/viewtopic.ph ... 078#p14350

The destruction of humanity's great civilization caused the power of magic to emerge, literally as the war raged across the land, and the Arcana appeared along with it.

As you can see from Fels message one part suggests that Arcans were Created when the Breach occured
the other seems suggest that Arcanes were used in the war that caused the breach.

However if we look in this story we see the situation might have changed:

Arcans. Kyven really didn’t pay them much mind. They were animal-humanoid hybrids, mutants some would call them, which history said had been created by the Great Ancients at the height of the old empire to serve humanity as labor.

Of course just because Kyven says or believes it, that doesn't make it true. (And if Firetail were to say the opposite, doesn't mean that woudl be true either.) The Loremasters might be lying, but to what purpose? Making the great ancient civilization sound more interesting than it really is? In either case, the arcans *are* engineered. Evolution doesn't produce plural species like that, and I doubt there's any particular reason random spirit energy would either. Either you can point to the spirits or the humans.

Or let's rephrase that: Either you can blame the spirits or the humans for starting the arcans out as ignorant near animals unable to defend themselves, and thus being vulnerable to hundreds of years of torture and slaughter.

One reason Archans have had shaman longer is they live shorter lives and breed faster then Humans do.

A very interesting idea. However it's established that wild arcans aren't smart, and domesticated arcans are unlikely to be bred for whatever traits the spirits find useful. Unless the spirits deliberately linked shaman genes to obedience traits, which the humans would breed for (as we have with dogs) which is also something the spirits would find useful.

The theory would also mean it's been (6x time since first Firetail) since the disaster. Or roughly 1200 years (ish) if I remember correctly.

[boballab]

Evolution does do some strange things like two similar but different races existing for a time side by side. The classic example of that is Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal existing side by side for thousands of years in Europe, before Neanderthal falling to the wayside. I think a better argument for an un-natural begining of the arcan race would be how quickly they appeared in such large numbers. Evolution doesn't work that fast its a slow process, entire fully formed races don't appear practically overnight in evolutional terms, which the arcans did.

[Phantom]

One someone said they did think arcanes were engineered ...
http://forums.sennadar.com/viewtopic.ph ... 078#p14350

The destruction of humanity's great civilization caused the power of magic to emerge, literally as the war raged across the land, and the Arcana appeared along with it.

As you can see from Fels message one part suggests that Arcans were Created when the Breach occured
the other seems suggest that Arcanes were used in the war that caused the breach.

However if we look in this story we see the situation might have changed:

Arcans. Kyven really didn’t pay them much mind. They were animal-humanoid hybrids, mutants some would call them, which history said had been created by the Great Ancients at the height of the old empire to serve humanity as labor.

Well if you reread what i posted it covered both ways .....I figured as that post was a Story outline and Fel would choose which why he wanted it to go. he's just not commented on what exactly happened yet.

Of course just because Kyven says or believes it, that doesn't make it true. (And if Firetail were to say the opposite, doesn't mean that woudl be true either.) The Loremasters might be lying, but to what purpose? Making the great ancient civilization sound more interesting than it really is? In either case, the arcans *are* engineered. Evolution doesn't produce plural species like that, and I doubt there's any particular reason random spirit energy would either. Either you can point to the spirits or the humans.

Or let's rephrase that: Either you can blame the spirits or the humans for starting the arcans out as ignorant near animals unable to defend themselves, and thus being vulnerable to hundreds of years of torture and slaughter.

This Tends to support the Theory they were Created by Humans.

Who says they Started out ignorant.... remember The Breach Cause both Arcane and the Humans to Slip back as the Old world crumbled and decayed as Civilization unraveled.

If we theorize that arcanes were indeed created (engineered ) then why would one suppose they were created ignorant
I think some of them being ignorant is just like it is in humans a mater of the level of education they received growing up.

I think it a lot for it is Humans are More creative and relies less on instincts them the Archnes do allowing them to rebound quicker and start to rebuild .....also remember if the Arcanes are Engineered they would have little culture or history of their own.

I would assume since it seems they were Created for helping with the War that they are a lot like Machines
and were engineered for certain tasks. such as Scouting, Security or infiltration Ect, and were taught very little else then
what was needed to complete their Jobs/tasks.

Think of it like only being schooled to only be a suicide bomber, general laborer street sweeper they would only be taught quickly what was needed or required to do those jobs period.

One reason Archans have had shaman longer is they live shorter lives and breed faster then Humans do.

A very interesting idea. However it's established that wild arcans aren't smart, and domesticated arcans are unlikely to be bred for whatever traits the spirits find useful. Unless the spirits deliberately linked shaman genes to obedience traits, which the humans would breed for (as we have with dogs) which is also something the spirits would find useful.

The theory would also mean it's been (6x time since first Firetail) since the disaster. Or roughly 1200 years (ish) if I remember correctly.

Who says Wild arcanes aren't smart....it seems more likely they are just undereducated and Most are a bit feral

and Since Shaman need to be Educated to use their gifts who says that there are no Wild arcane Shaman ?
Maybe there are but they are like Kyven when he First started out. maybe some of the Monsters talked about are Wild Shaman?

As for obedience traits remember we're talking about most of the Shaman being Arcans thing about that
Most would submit to the Pack leader or stronger entity ..."the Sprits"

I get the Feeling that any that don't show obedience to their Totem or any Sprits that are teaching or may be Overseeing them just don't seem to live very long.
Look Kyven there's another Crispy Shaman wonder which Sprit got pissed off this time.

My thinking is Shaman blood lines are directly linked back to the Breach like the Crystals appearing in the Mountains (Just haven't decided if it was the ones closest to the event or farther away from it when it happened that were affected)
It's just taken a long time for it to fully manifest it's self and Since Arches live shorter lives and breed quicker it's appeared in their Line sooner then it did in Humans then again maybe those who have ingored it or mostly didn't understand it and were never trained to use it.

No ones Said for sure that all those that have the Shaman Traits have become Shaman..... maybe some fall by the wayside along the way.

Maybe they become the touched ?



Phantom

[boballab]

We know the ability to be Shaman is tied to Genetics for the simple reason if it wasn't you couldn't breed for it like the Shadowfox is doing with Kyven and the prostitute. With any trait that can be bred true in any animal the faster the animal breeds the less time it takes for that trait to become dominant. That is how it is done in Horses, Dogs, Rats and any other animal and when you get down to brass tacks Humans are animals. Now with Arcans we don't know how long of a gestation period their pregnancies last and we don't know how long till an Arcan can reproduce and those are what determine how fast generations pass in any animal. For all we know they could have 12 month pregnancies and take 13 years before being able to reproduce, if that was the case technically Humans breed generations faster then Arcans. However if Arcans have 5 month pregnancies and can reproduce after 5 years then they turn over generations faster. Lifespan does not play any direct roll in how fast a species breeds. It plays a indirect roll in how society for humans determine when to allow girls to get pregnant IE: back in the 1700's when life expectancy was 40 to 50 years girls got married by the time they were 15. Today society stresses to wait longer not biology, same length to pregnancy and girls are able to reproduce in the same time frame, and we wonder why there is teenage pregnancy biology tells them now is the time society says wait. Geez I never knew the things I learned growing up on my Great aunts Thorobred farm would come to this.

[expedient]

Who says Wild arcanes aren't smart....it seems more likely they are just undereducated and Most are a bit feral

Yes, the wild arcan are not necessarily stupid, they may have just given in to their animal instinct side. Any attempt to control them could drive them even more feral. If we consider them a merging of animal and human traits, which if they are engineered they may be, then it could be just a matter of balance between instincts and reason that drives them feral.

[expedient]

For all we know they could have 12 month pregnancies and take 13 years before being able to reproduce, if that was the case technically Humans breed generations faster then Arcans.

From Chapter 9:

Maybe if it required a real investment in time for them, they wouldn’t do it. Arcans had a very unusual life cycle. They were born semi-ambulatory, able to move, not entirely helpless, and then they grew at an almost shocking rate. The average Arcan was weaned off mother’s milk after three months, and would grow to the first stage of maturity in about three years, to about the size of a human teenager, and become sexually mature. They mimicked humans in that they continued to grow slowly after reaching that plateau, reaching full size and maturity after about six years, then they lived, on the average, about forty years. That female Arcan the farmer had, the one that was nearly fifty, that was positively elderly for an Arcan. So, a breeder only really had to put three years of planning and effort into his Arcan stock to get an Arcan that was more than large enough to provide a pelt that could make a coat. Odds were, some of them were slaughtered much younger, if only to not have to wait that long. A six month old Arcan was nearly the same size as a six year old human, and that was quite a bit of fur.

“Well, Buster was right, we’re compatible,” she told him with a smile. “That’s why I joined you. We can have a baby,” she said when she saw his blank look. “Now it’s just a matter of luck.”

“You incited her to ovulate,” Buster explained. “Human women ovulate on a regular cycle. Arcans don’t, it’s triggered. Now it’s just a matter of luck if she conceives. It’s usually pretty much well guaranteed if you two stay together for a couple of weeks, but since we’re being sold on Friday, well, it’s a matter of luck. Not much luck, though. It’s very rare for a female to conceive from the initial joining.”

That gives us a framework. I would have thought they'd be able to get pregnant again shortly after weaning...

[boballab]

For all we know they could have 12 month pregnancies and take 13 years before being able to reproduce, if that was the case technically Humans breed generations faster then Arcans.

From Chapter 9:

Maybe if it required a real investment in time for them, they wouldn’t do it. Arcans had a very unusual life cycle. They were born semi-ambulatory, able to move, not entirely helpless, and then they grew at an almost shocking rate. The average Arcan was weaned off mother’s milk after three months, and would grow to the first stage of maturity in about three years, to about the size of a human teenager, and become sexually mature. They mimicked humans in that they continued to grow slowly after reaching that plateau, reaching full size and maturity after about six years, then they lived, on the average, about forty years. That female Arcan the farmer had, the one that was nearly fifty, that was positively elderly for an Arcan. So, a breeder only really had to put three years of planning and effort into his Arcan stock to get an Arcan that was more than large enough to provide a pelt that could make a coat. Odds were, some of them were slaughtered much younger, if only to not have to wait that long. A six month old Arcan was nearly the same size as a six year old human, and that was quite a bit of fur.

“Well, Buster was right, we’re compatible,” she told him with a smile. “That’s why I joined you. We can have a baby,” she said when she saw his blank look. “Now it’s just a matter of luck.”

“You incited her to ovulate,” Buster explained. “Human women ovulate on a regular cycle. Arcans don’t, it’s triggered. Now it’s just a matter of luck if she conceives. It’s usually pretty much well guaranteed if you two stay together for a couple of weeks, but since we’re being sold on Friday, well, it’s a matter of luck. Not much luck, though. It’s very rare for a female to conceive from the initial joining.”

That gives us a framework. I would have thought they'd be able to get pregnant again shortly after weaning...

Yes that can give a framework because typically the faster you grow in maturity the earlier you can reproduce but because of the circumstances around the making of the original Arcans we don't know. If the Arcans were made through Bio engineering you want your Super Soldiers to mature fast to be of use but you don't want them to get pregnant right away. Most times if you are making a being in the lab for a specific purpose they usually make them sterile so they can't reproduce. It would be much more effiecent just to keep cranking them out of test tubes. So that is the crux of the matter Fel hasn't spelled it out yet how the Arcans came into being, if the Breach effect them and so forth.

[expedient]

They could've limited pregnancy, at least a little, by keeping compatible pairs apart.

Some of the arcans don't appear to be natural choices for super-soldiers, such as the minks, so maybe that wasn't their original purpose and the more apparently aggressive breeds came later? Still assuming that they were engineered