Question (Chapter 4 Demon's Bane Spoiler)

[Lochar]

The only problem with it being any of the Elder Gods of Sennadar is that they are not allowed to do more than a projection into Crossroads, iirc. Physcial bodies and simulacrums go a little beyond that point.

Not to mention I don't think they could hide the spark of divinity from Tarrin.

[Dimwit]

That's not what the archon said. It's not that they can't, it's just not done because of the inherent risk. Gods like to play it safe it seems.

While Tarrin is in his weaked state in the Crossroads I can see a powerful diety being able to hide their divinity from him. With so many Gods around the "noise" must be incredible.

Don't forget, Ayise isn't just an Elder God. She's only one of seven that are the most powerful of ALL the gods. Only GoG would be more powerful. Don't put anything past her.

[Lochar]

Read carefully Dimwit. Thanks for allowing such a fun name too.

“Fear is more like it,” she answered evenly. “I’m fully restricted to the Outer plane I call home,” she explained. “Other gods may move between planes freely, but we’re not allowed. I can send projections, surely, but those projections aren’t nearly as powerful as the real me. The only time I’m allowed to leave my home plane is to visit the realm of Ayise in her home plane, and nowhere else. All the Elder Gods can visit Ayise, so we can meet and talk in person rather than through projections.”

[Dimwit]

Just to be a PITA.

Fear is more like it,” she answered evenly. “I’m fully restricted to the Outer plane I call home,” she explained. “Other gods may move between planes freely, but we’re not allowed."

Who is "we" do you think? Just the Sennadar Gods? The elder gods? Everyone except Ayise? Something is definitely different than the average system it seems.

[Lochar]

Just the Sennadar/Close to the Core gods, because they being so close to the core increases the power exponentially. I would assume the Elders of any close Core dimension would be bound in this way.

Remember, when Tarrin was talking to Jermik the Wise in Crossroads, he made mention that a mortal Sorceror could rival the power of some gods.

There has to be some restraints on them. I think even Aiyse is bound by this rule, as it seems to be one set down by the God of Gods.

[afrigeek]

Being the GoG means that his power is probably far beyond any of the elder Gods including Ayise as he is the one who created them anyway. Thus I would imagine that he could have comfortably been Mother Wynn and kept his actual presence on Sennadar secret form the elder Gods.

Plus the attention thing doesn't hold water. If Niami was able to hold multiple conversations and give directions to armies at the same time while organising a force to go to Pyrosia, then the GoGs can certainly do the same and much more.

[Dimwit]

If I buy that, who is the barmaid? Either she's what she was, a mortal and you think that the GoG would need or want a mortal servant in the core? I doubt it. She could be an elder god, caught up in the politics, I'm thinking Ayise again. Or she's a totally new character. A new piece. God. Or Demon, though that I'd doubt.

[2p1k3]

I think that Mother Wynn is the GoG and the barmaid is the GoG's child. It is an easy way to tie it into the very base of christianity without all the human made dogma. Naming one of the 'first' Deva Gaberial would be the clincher on that idea though.

I also think that what Mother Wynn sees is that Entropy is necessary for the Balance to be maintained. Without Entropy everything becomes recycled yesterdays news as nothing new and/or original is created. Hense Kikkali's and the other's comment that Tarrin remakes the destiny of everyone around him as if it as candy on halloween.

As for Niami and the other material plane gods. I believe it is only reasonable that she also has the capability to go to Sennadar in person. Though there would be many reasons as to why not, the primary reason being that she still would be restricted in the amount of power she could use on Sennadar. Seeing how her projections can still hit that upper limit then the only thing she is doing is risking her own body. My primary justification behind this idea is The Forgotten Realms world had all of their gods walking their material plane for a while. I hazard a guess that Forgotten Realms is also one of the seven core worlds given how prevelant magic is in that realm.

One thought I had is Pyrosia... with Tarrin's creation of the weave there then it would stand to reason that its relation to the core has been shifted as well. As it stands, the world is close to Sennadar in magic 'potential'. If anything the Demons should 'want' the world more. Given a couple thousand years and close relations with the Sennadar world; there would be a significant Sorcerer population base that would support a weave as strong as the one on Sennadar... maybe even Stronger unless they finish tieing Niami into the weave and she is able to put a throatle on how many sui'kun are present on that world

[Lochar]

Sui'kun I think are a factor of Spyder changing the Weave in Sennadar so that she wouldn't Consume herself. Remember before her, there were no Sui'kun, so does that mean there wern't any Conduits as well?

Since there aren't any Mi'Shara on Pyrosia, I can't see Sui'Kun or Da'Shar being creatable, since they can't go to the Goddess on Pyrosia.

[2p1k3]

I dissagree somewhat... Right now Dolana is the 'heart' of the Pyrosian weave. Theoretically she could 'show' people how to avoid being consumed. Also I think there were always Sui'kun or at least Da'shar because I am remembering Tarrin saying at some point that a Sui'kun or Da'shar has to be in the heart of the weave otherwise it would collapse. Since there 'was' a weave before Spyder then it stands to reason that there were at least Da'shar present before Spyder. If there are Da'Shar then I personally find it easy to associate the presence of Sui'kun with Da'shar as a non mutually exclusive pair.

I also think that someone 'could' connect the weave on Pyrosia with Niami sense Tarrin himself was able to connect with Niami to establish the rules of magic with only 'mortal' powers. Though I hazard a guess that if Niami is gaining control over another realm then the other Elder Gods would be going with her to Pyrosia. I see the whole 'lack' of Elder Gods on Pyrosia as a major issue that the Gods would want to fix at least. If this is true than the whole Sui'kun/Da'shar issue would be mute.

I wonder why the Demons don't just try to go through the Astral Gate on Pyrosia though. If there are only eleven younger gods on Pyrosia then I doubt anyone is guarding the Astral Gate there.

[Shadowhawk]

I also think that someone 'could' connect the weave on Pyrosia with Niami sense Tarrin himself was able to connect with Niami to establish the rules of magic with only 'mortal' powers.

Niami help was necessary because even as Tarrin has divine soul, he has mortal mind. And the multitude of non-conflicting rules directing the Weave and Sorcery is above mortal mind. Remember that All of pyrosia lacks consciusness, and everything has to be explained in excruciated, minute detail. Niami provided those details.

But I don't think Niami rules the Weave on Pyrosia.

[afrigeek]

Niami does not control the weave. The just established the rules governing its use when Tarrin created it. And because she is the one who did, she made it quite similar to the one on Sennadar in that it needed suikun and sorcerers to sustain it hence her hurry to get Jasana over there. I would think that new Suikun and dashar can appear since Dolanna is functioning as the will of the weave and is in the heart. She can show them the way.

[Lochar]

The problem is the crossing over though. Niami shows the Sorcerer how to cross over and transmute themselves into a fireproof person. I don't think that's common knowledge that it's an actual transmuation, not just the Goddess doing it, but the person doing it themselves.

Dolanna would have trouble showing that to people, knowing that if they did it wrong because of her they'd die anyways.

Besides, Dolanna may function as the guiding mind of the Weave, but that does not make her the ruler of the Heart. There may not even be a Heart there.

Hmm... If the Weave stays there long enough, wonder if some people will begin having True Faith in Dolanna as the Goddess of the Weave on Pyrosia. That'd be fun to see.

[Dimwit]

Pyrosia isn't quite a blank slate but close. What it will take is either a God or someone to ascend to godhood and take control. With the elder god vacating the premises it's a wide open field.
Only drawback I can see is that you give up where ever you're at to become the new domain. Hard on the Sennadarians. Maybe a recruitment drive in the core?
Think that's Tarrin's future? He's far more than mortal now and I don't see him losing it quite like on the blasted plain against Val. And if he DOES (re?) attain godhood, there's nothing to prevent it balance wise vs the Sennadar gods.
Fel must be totally amused at all these suppositions.

[afrigeek]

You've hit on what I've been thinking. That the absence of an elder God on Pyrosia creates a unique opportunity for tarrin to Ascend to the ranks of an elder God by taking over that position. With his direct intervention character, this would Pyrosia a very interesting place to be imho.