Terry Goodkind book

[Shadowhawk]

*dark* (?)
is it about the:
1) killing part ?
2) rape ?
3) dark side for bad guy (keeper?)
[...]
If (2), not much I can say about this. I watch too many movies (action pack) that contain this scene every now and then.

IMVHO violence should be implied, eventually shown, but not described in detail. At least not in minute detail, for pages and pages.

[MommyDoom]

*dark* (?)
is it about the:
1) killing part ?
2) rape ?
3) dark side for bad guy (keeper?)

no offense taken. It was the taking of an innocent child, burying him up to his neck in sand, warping his mind to hate his parents and love and trust the torturer, and then the murder of this trusting child by pouring molten lead down his throat though his feeding tube that got to me.

and the 100+ pages of the torture of the good guy, though had it been just that, I would probably have moved on to book 2.

Keep in mind that my son is 8 months old and I worry every day that someone is going to snatch him and do horrible things to him. It's possible that this section of the book only bothers me so much now that I've had a child. Though I HOPE it would have bothered me beforehand... I'll never know.

MD

[riduan]

Do you like Ursula K. Le Guin? What about her later, fem books?

Well, as I said, I only read her Earthsea saga...particular those that focus on Sparhawk/Ged.
Other series from her, not interested ;P

Blame me...I'm just a male egoistic (or whatever it is)..

p.s   luckily it is Harry Potter and not Suzy Potter!

[riduan]

no offense taken. It was the taking of an innocent child, burying him up to his neck in sand, warping his mind to hate his parents and love and trust the torturer, and then the murder of this trusting child by pouring molten lead down his throat though his feeding tube that got to me.

and the 100+ pages of the torture of the good guy, though had it been just that, I would probably have moved on to book 2.

Keep in mind that my son is 8 months old and I worry every day that someone is going to snatch him and do horrible things to him. It's possible that this section of the book only bothers me so much now that I've had a child. Though I HOPE it would have bothered me beforehand... I'll never know.

MD

Oh that part...I personal think that parts are not original (don't quote me though). I seems to read it in some other books (not fantasy).

But he did manage to paint a gory picture about a Torturer (as in capital T) - one who specialise in torturing, and a school that create a would be torturer. *Sadist* may be the closest thing I can think of.

[Weresmilodon]

Belive it or not, like it or not, but that kind of thing happens in the real world more often that you think. It's just covered up very well, and the media dosen't like to take up those things because it might scare off customers. There are people like that out there. It's not a nice world once you get under the surface.

I think that that is why he wrote that, at least to a part. He might have known someone who got killed like that, or he might be trying to make people take a closer look on the darker side of our daily life, but i think there is a reason as for why he writes as he does, beyond just scaring/shocking the reader. I think that he might have had some bad experiences with the darker part of humanity somewhere in his life.

[Shadowhawk]

Well, as I said, I only read her Earthsea saga...particular those that focus on Sparhawk/Ged.
Other series from her, not interested ;P

Blame me...I'm just a male egoistic (or whatever it is)..

Your loss. "Four Ways to Forgiveness" by Ursula K. Le Guin (four short stories, SF). "Glory Season" by David Brin (SF). The first two book (maybe more) of Barryar saga by Lois McMaster Bujold. "Snow Queen"/"The Summer Queen" by Joan D. Vinge. Large part of Connie Willis novels and short stories (BTW. the short story  "All My Darling Daughters" (if I remember correctly the title) is a good example of "dark" story, definitely not "nice" one, without describing a nanopound of violence).

And that is male chauvinistic pig, you MCP (should it not be boar?)

[riduan]

And that is male chauvinistic pig, you MCP (should it not be boar?)

I rest my case - whatever it is, I don't deny. One bad thing about my reading preference. can you imagine reading story about Suzy Potter!

[riduan]

Belive it or not, like it or not, but that kind of thing happens in the real world more often that you think. It's just covered up very well, and the media dosen't like to take up those things because it might scare off customers. There are people like that out there. It's not a nice world once you get under the surface.

.

I agree, I agree! Media play apart in painting life in a nice way. But it not always true!

Gosh! I must recommend MD to watch that low budget movie "Space Troopers" and watch that *KILL THEM ALL* scenes (it made up more than 70% of the story lines!) - my head was spinning right to the very end of the movie...

[MommyDoom]

Gosh! I must recommend MD to watch that low budget movie "Space Troopers" and watch that *KILL THEM ALL* scenes (it made up more than 70% of the story lines!) - my head was spinning right to the very end of the movie...

Space Troopers or the Starship Troopers "kill the bugs" movie?

MD

[Mr_Alpha]

MD

Many people have give up reading Goodkinds series after the first or second book, which is a pity since the it takes a drastic turn fore the better after that. You should not take the first book as an indication of what the series is like, it is an exception, not the norm.


Miser

What if the audience's (especially the challengers) and the authors (the non-commercial FEL) opinions differ on what/how extreme the dark side should be taken. How should the challenge be taken then?

(no challenge, offense or flame intended)

[Rockson]

:-X I just cannot believe some of the message that came about during this discussion!  MD brought up some valid points regarding Terry Goodkind first book.  When I got to the point she was describing, the only way I could get past it was to skim.  

What she stated was her feelings and opinion of the book and she got sandblasted for it.  If you disagree, that's fine it is YOUR opinion.  She was not trying to force her's on you, please give her the same courtesy.  

Up to this point I have been unable to get further that ~75-100 pages into the 2nd book of the series, I have read that the series get's better so I might thry to forge through 'til it get's better, bet if it doesn't I will not take it out on the people who recommended it, I will just move on.  Hopefully others can do the same.

MD know that you have at least one whole-hearted supporter of your opinion as to the "darkness" of the book.

Rockson

[Weresmilodon]

MD know that you have at least one whole-hearted supporter of your opinion as to the "darkness" of the book.

Not just one. Everyone has the right to have their own oppinion, and no one has the right to decide what is right or wrong, because that varies from person to person. I just tend to stay out of these kind of discussions, because i don't want to get involved in an 'oppinion-war'. It can destroy a lot, but it never does any good.

If you don't like someones elses oppinion, fine. They probably dosen't like your either. That's no reason to start biting each others heads off. That's just chidish.

On the other hand, MD apoligized after she was told that her oppinion had offended someone. That's good, but wasn't really needed in my oppinion. No one should have to apoligize just because they think otherwise. If they are wrong in a 'word-war' where there actually is a right and a wrong, then it might be Ok, sometimes even required, but here, when there is only oppinions, i don't think it's needed.

If someone dosen't agree with this, Though! This is my oppinion, and it won't change no matter how much people scream or cry about it. If you don't like it, deal with it, or go somewhere else where you can tell yourself that no one has the right to think different then you, i don't care.

<sigh>

My, my, this wasen't what i planned to write... Oh, well, I just have a very strong dislike toward people who can't accept that people are different, and have different oppinions, so i got a bit carried away... Neah, dosen't matter. It's my oppinion anyway.

[MommyDoom]

Thanks Rockson and Miser and Mike.  I really didn't intend to start some kind of flame war, but really to elicit some discussion.  And we have had good discussion!  Mike helped me to see that maybe Terry Goodkind is kind of exorcising his own demons by writing these things and maybe he's experienced similar things.  That hadn't occurred to me and if it's true then

<MommyDoom slaps on her floppy Prayer Bonnet>

that boy needs some prayin' for!  :)  

Seriously though, I've only been "sandblasted" once and I think that's because Greyfin took my opinion personally.  Maybe he drew the following conclusion,
"She thinks the book is dark and horrible.  I LIKE the book. Therefore I must be dark and horrible."  That wasn't intended.

I've enjoyed the discussions we've had and look forward to further ones. Personally, I think we've about beat this dog to death, whaddayasay?

MD

[Weresmilodon]

Yeah, it looks kinda half-dead. Wonder when the next one will show up...? You have noticed that they do that from time to time, right? Different topics, but it really keeps the forum alive while we wait for the next Chapter. That's good, in my oppinion (and haven't i used that word more today than the last few years together..?). It gives me something extra to do.

[Shadowhawk]

Yeah, it looks kinda half-dead. Wonder when the next one will show up...? You have noticed that they do that from time to time, right? Different topics, but it really keeps the forum alive while we wait for the next Chapter. That's good, in my oppinion (and haven't i used that word more today than the last few years together..?). It gives me something extra to do.

Do you think that the thread about female main characters in fantasy (and SF) books has any chance of growth? Please, in "YES" case don't respond here, start new thread with descriptive subject line.