Sennadar Forums

Fiferguy wrote:

Hearly wrote:have the generators exposed to space (using maybe some grating 2 levels so theres no way to hit it directly) with a fan that blows the heat away, etc..

Except fans blow air and there's no air in space... That's why there's no propellers in space.

I said fans mostly meaning something that will disperse the heat, be it a jet of Water particles (which would freeze, but would also draw heat away from the generators..)

Hearly wrote:

Fiferguy wrote:

Hearly wrote:have the generators exposed to space (using maybe some grating 2 levels so theres no way to hit it directly) with a fan that blows the heat away, etc..

Except fans blow air and there's no air in space... That's why there's no propellers in space.

I said fans mostly meaning something that will disperse the heat, be it a jet of Water particles (which would freeze, but would also draw heat away from the generators..)

And that is the problem that the Karinne's had, you can't make grates or anything that would break up the integrity of the seemless supercompacted armor, it would defeat the purpose and allow the mpacs to grab hold and leak through. The system would have to be entirely internal and draw heat away from the armor. Problem is, we already know that there are plasma conduits and other systems along the skin of the armor that need to be there... such as sensors, etc.

~Michael

Spec8472 wrote:

Hearly wrote:

Fiferguy wrote:P.S. House Karinne's home planet is Karis...

ya I just didn't feel like looking it up

Spelling Tip:
Karis, Home Planet of: Karinne.
Karinne, House of.
Karly aka Greymist (kidding)

So Greymist Really isn't Karly ?

Hummmmm



Phantom

michaelsuave wrote:

Hearly wrote:

Fiferguy wrote: Except fans blow air and there's no air in space... That's why there's no propellers in space.

I said fans mostly meaning something that will disperse the heat, be it a jet of Water particles (which would freeze, but would also draw heat away from the generators..)

And that is the problem that the Karinne's had, you can't make grates or anything that would break up the integrity of the seemless supercompacted armor, it would defeat the purpose and allow the mpacs to grab hold and leak through. The system would have to be entirely internal and draw heat away from the armor. Problem is, we already know that there are plasma conduits and other systems along the skin of the armor that need to be there... such as sensors, etc.

~Michael

The problem Jason has to overcome is the Sheilds Spikeing. If he can intergrate PPG tech with the Mulitphased Sheilds then Heat would become a less of a problem as the Problem would be smaller and help keep Mpacs from Reaching the armor to build up more heat.

As I see it Miniturize the Power supplys and add Triple redundancy to the system ....

Maybe even use Multilayered Mulitphased sheilds to keep the hull from ever getting hit

Other then that maybe he could find a way to Phase a Heat sink in to another dimension to bleed off what heat the Generators Build up


If that dosen't work ......Add Some Freaking Offencive weapons to help keep them off his ass.



Phantom

Hearly wrote:I said fans mostly meaning something that will disperse the heat, be it a jet of Water particles (which would freeze, but would also draw heat away from the generators..)

Which is Ok for the first little while -- until you run out of water.

"But they could replicate more hydrogen+oxygen, use some electricity and produce more water" -- right, except that this would end up producing more heat, and gives you warm water... which is less effective at cooling, etc.

The space shuttle spends most of it's time on it's back, relative to the sun - since that's got a whole lot of heat shielding. It doesn't help, however, in removing waste heat. (Luckily, they don't have huge amounts of power - i.e enough to generate a shield - so produce relatively small amounts of waste heat, which can dissipate through the cargo bay and other areas). The ISS has large arrays for dissipating waste heat.

Basicly - you cant spend energy in a closed environment to make it cooler. You need to be able to dump waste heat outside - Think of a Refrigerator - nice and cool on the outside, proportionally warm/hot on the outside (depending on how hard it has to work).

Spec8472 wrote: Which is Ok for the first little while -- until you run out of water.

"But they could replicate more hydrogen+oxygen, use some electricity and produce more water" -- right, except that this would end up producing more heat, and gives you warm water... which is less effective at cooling, etc.

The space shuttle spends most of it's time on it's back, relative to the sun - since that's got a whole lot of heat shielding. It doesn't help, however, in removing waste heat. (Luckily, they don't have huge amounts of power - i.e enough to generate a shield - so produce relatively small amounts of waste heat, which can dissipate through the cargo bay and other areas). The ISS has large arrays for dissipating waste heat.

Basicly - you cant spend energy in a closed environment to make it cooler. You need to be able to dump waste heat outside - Think of a Refrigerator - nice and cool on the outside, proportionally warm/hot on the outside (depending on how hard it has to work).

There has to be some feasible way for the heat to be dispated in such a way that would allow the shields to take a lot more of a beating than it does now.. Either by using some type of radiator system, or something different.

Makes one wonder if they could build a PPG type device out of that heat. Take the PPG shell casing, minus the energy source. Then funnel all of the heat into it. Eventually you'd have enough heat to light up as plasma, and you could reuse it.

Lochar wrote:Makes one wonder if they could build a PPG type device out of that heat. Take the PPG shell casing, minus the energy source. Then funnel all of the heat into it. Eventually you'd have enough heat to light up as plasma, and you could reuse it.

Well, a used up PPG contains an inert ball of hot iron. If you passed enough coolant though you could use it as a heat dump. Though you will likely need to provide significant external power to maintain the PPG's spatial distortion field.

A more significant problem may not the heat sink itself, but transporting the heat away from the shield generators quickly enough. Cube/Square problems can occur if they have to over a certain size and completely enclosed.

Heat is kinetic energy on molecular level. We know, that standart shields are deflecting kinetic energy. An idea could be, to install shields on the inside of the armor, which stops the heating of the inner compartments. Without a way to 'bleed' into the ship, the heat will spread over the hull slowly.

There are several problems as well. First, as mentioned several systems need direct contact to space, like sensors and weapons so that the heat shield is effectively compromised at those locations.
To minimize the problems, the weapons could be mounted behind the shield and only when needed, drawn out to minimize exposure to the heat. The sensors would have to be heavily isulated since they couldn't be pulled into the shield.
Secondly, if the heat can't dissipate into the ship the armor will heat up much faster and probably be destroyed at some point even if the mpac rounds can't penetrate it.

Astardis.

ANTIcarrot wrote:

Lochar wrote:Makes one wonder if they could build a PPG type device out of that heat. Take the PPG shell casing, minus the energy source. Then funnel all of the heat into it. Eventually you'd have enough heat to light up as plasma, and you could reuse it.

Well, a used up PPG contains an inert ball of hot iron. If you passed enough coolant though you could use it as a heat dump. Though you will likely need to provide significant external power to maintain the PPG's spatial distortion field.

A more significant problem may not the heat sink itself, but transporting the heat away from the shield generators quickly enough. Cube/Square problems can occur if they have to over a certain size and completely enclosed.

Well like I said before ...the problem comes from the Spikes ....the Power-supply can't handle the Load needed so it overheats and shuts down.

Solution Upgrade the power-supply or Add more of them in Series to help handle the load.

Hey think about it for a sec ....these are using Tech that's over 1000 years old While Faey tech isn't any more Advanced the Karinne Tech of a 1000 years ago .....they have made a lot of refinements and Miniaturizations of it in that time.

as well I'm sure to design some Killer Heat dissipation devices. and Jason is a Wiz at adapting Faey tech to use's it was never originally intended for <G>

so I could See Jason Mating Karinne Tech to Faey modern Refinements to create Metaphased Sheilds that can Take a licking and Keep on Ticking.

Beside How do we know that the Karinnes never solved this problem? they allready may have.... and it just that this Scout wasn't updated before the attack that killed them......

We also still know little about those Prototypes on the moonbase.
and they Are Warships


Also what kind of Tech do the Kimdori have ?

Remember the Denmother Told jason they were only repairing the systems on the scout ship not adding to or upgradeing them ...as it needed to appear to have been sitting around hidden for centurys waiting.




Phantom

Astardis wrote:Heat is kinetic energy on molecular level. We know, that standart shields are deflecting kinetic energy. An idea could be, to install shields on the inside of the armor, which stops the heating of the inner compartments. Without a way to 'bleed' into the ship, the heat will spread over the hull slowly.

There are several problems as well. First, as mentioned several systems need direct contact to space, like sensors and weapons so that the heat shield is effectively compromised at those locations.
To minimize the problems, the weapons could be mounted behind the shield and only when needed, drawn out to minimize exposure to the heat. The sensors would have to be heavily isulated since they couldn't be pulled into the shield.
Secondly, if the heat can't dissipate into the ship the armor will heat up much faster and probably be destroyed at some point even if the mpac rounds can't penetrate it.

Astardis.

That's a bit of the problem .....we have two different systems working here

an Active system the Class V Composite Harmonic Teryon Shield...

and a Passive one The standard AE-5 Compressed Neutronium armored hull.


The problem we need to solve is to Upgrade the Teryon Shield generators to keep them from overheating and shutting down.

This keeps us from having to use the Passive Compressed Neutronium Hull system.

I should point out they had quite some heat Build up from their quick re-entry into Earths atmosphere also.

But upgrading the shield generators for greater power output should help a lot. maybe even add a second or maybe even a third Backup shield generator to help in the event the primary or secondary ones fail due to overheating.




Phantom

What if Jason built a weapon that was totally powered by all that extra heat energy? Some sort of heat absorption/syphoning device. That way, he could just fire it anytime it looked like anything was going to overheat, possibly damaging an enemy while cooling off.

Come on guys, all well and good but this is more a 'fun with faey tech' topic. We were talking about what Jason could do to help the Imperium.

Admittedly upgrading the Karrine ships sheilding an obvious 'good thing' but except for maybe his personal transport he can't use the Karrine tech openly.

He had decided to keep the Karrine tech base QT as per the request of the last House head. He can only use the Karrine tech on Karris.

The trick is how can Jason help the Empress & the Imperium.

Maybe marry the Empress as someone suggested?


AMPWS

Or would Jyslin strangle him.

ampws wrote:Or would Jyslin strangle him.

Na, she might Strangle the Empress thou, From what Fel said, If she sends him a White rose, he cannot say No..