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The next seige was won, as soon as he could shadow walk. The city will have the walls as an outer defence, with the island as a fall back position. Kyvern can not be stopped by any barrier but magic nulifier. Shario will likly have a way through or under the walls or the monster sewers. The loreguard can man their positions or hunt shaman not both. If he bottles the leadership on the island and goes after crystal, wwith an altered ground pounder, blow the armory.

Quick question: Dose anyone remember who told Kyven that he would always be weaker (as a shaman) than all of the others. (was it the trickster Shadowfox?) who may only want him to believe that he was weaker (or maybe only told the truth of that specific instant). Shaman power and physical power are connected, and Kyven seems to be matched against (and loosing to) the cat (can't remember her name) - she is much more skilled than him. How does he fair physically against the other arcan. I know that his endurance is less (at we are told by Kyven himself that this is true - mabey being mislead again by Shadowfox?). But what about burst strength? Could he stand toe to toe powerwise against Shadow or clover for a few minutes?

Also if Kyven is actually stronger than we and he are currently thinking, why would Shadowfox want him to think that he is so weak? Maybe to make him more subtle and devious?

Also remember this was before his human form was upgraded by his shadow powers, a body using both shaman and shadow has to be stronger than most, also it was be just like the fox spirit to upgrade his power levels, also his shadow powers constantly dram energy from the spirit world, could kyvern lear to use tthat to at least maintain and sustain his spells..

Wasn't it Fel personally who told us he'd be weaker?

Sure he cant do huge spells, but he can do far more smaller ones.

Weresmilodon wrote:Wasn't it Fel personally who told us he'd be weaker?

You seem to have forgotten that Fel is for more devious than the shadow fox...

I don't quite understand this need to always try to overpower the main character with raw power. It's already been done, and Kyven is not going to become another Tarrin. He's not going to be able to challenge any/everything in the world in a fight of raw power. He doesn't need to. He doesn't want to. And that's not the point of the story, or the development he's going through.

The point of Kyven is skill. To use the least amount of power possible to get the biggest possible effect. That is what makes him, to me, more interesting then any of the other main character. I don't need to read yet another DBZ my-power-is-greater/no-MY-power-is-greater/oh-yeah-well-i'm-even-stronger type fight. I see too many of those all the time from the low to average skilled authors out there. Fel is better then that. He doesn't need overpowered characters in overpowered battles to make his stories interesting. It takes more skill to do the same with a weaker character, and it is much more interesting to read about, in my opinion.

Not that i really mind the occasional overpowered character, if the story is well written, but they are getting so common that they are boring in comparison.

Mind you the 'illusion superseding reality' even if it takes a lot of power is an incredibly frighting power. I haven't re-read the stories in quite a while however IIRC the Shadow Fox mentioned that he had barely touched the surface of the ability. I wonder if at some point we might learn the truly terrifying ability to near warp reality itself through illusion. Not just something like 'theres a wall here i can't get through' but when you really really think of true reality warping, there are nearly no limits... Its a truly terrifying power, more so because it doesn't, as you said, rely on having massive power and having a huge brawl with somebody.

Yeah, Kyven is one character whose mind is more deadly/dangerous then pretty much anything else he can get a hold of. Just how many other character like that can you think of that don't involve tele-whatever?

Weresmilodon wrote:I don't quite understand this need to always try to overpower the main character with raw power. It's already been done, and Kyven is not going to become another Tarrin. He's not going to be able to challenge any/everything in the world in a fight of raw power. He doesn't need to. He doesn't want to. And that's not the point of the story, or the development he's going through.

The point of Kyven is skill. To use the least amount of power possible to get the biggest possible effect. That is what makes him, to me, more interesting then any of the other main character. I don't need to read yet another DBZ my-power-is-greater/no-MY-power-is-greater/oh-yeah-well-i'm-even-stronger type fight. I see too many of those all the time from the low to average skilled authors out there. Fel is better then that. He doesn't need overpowered characters in overpowered battles to make his stories interesting. It takes more skill to do the same with a weaker character, and it is much more interesting to read about, in my opinion.

Not that i really mind the occasional overpowered character, if the story is well written, but they are getting so common that they are boring in comparison.

I actually agree with this whole heartedly. I was just wondering if he truly is weaker than the others, or is actually just as strong (definitely not stronger) as some/most of the other arcan shaman.

Dreamer wrote: I actually agree with this whole heartedly. I was just wondering if he truly is weaker than the others, or is actually just as strong (definitely not stronger) as some/most of the other arcan shaman.

Based on what Fel has said, Kyven is weaker than all of the Arcan Shaman, but he's got a particular talent for illusions and can use skill to produce some interesting effects. As I recall it is as if Kyven's capacity to hold power is very low, while his ability to repeatedly hold power is no better than average.

To be more precise I would say that Kyven has a smaller capacity to hold energy than the Arcans, however that is balanced with a incredible talent for Illusions, probably even before the Shadow Fox's involvement. In pure straight up 'power vs power' combat he is definitely weaker, however I would probably bet on Kyven against all but the greatest Shamans in terms of combat (and not just because he has been trained as an assassin). Once He fully learns everything I have no doubt his effective 'power' is going to be orders of magnitude greater than his pure ability to hold energy.

The thing is agreat deal of shaman magic, and alchemical tools is that they are generally only usable if you can see. SHaman magic is in their eyes and what they see, i wonder if this means kyvern can render a shaman powerless and can shaman see through his shadow. That device on his head was likly powered by a blue crystal, he can replicate it as a spell.

Fel has stated repeatedly that Kyven will NEVER be as powerful as a regular shaman - because he started out with a major disadvantage -- he was and is a human, first and foremost. He has neither the strength nor the stamina of a 'normal' shaman. What Kyven does have is a human's intelligence and adaptability so he is both clever and innovative. He has the ability to look for imaginative solutions to his problems and he isn't afraid to ask for help from others who are more powerful than he is. His best and strongest ability is being able to adapt to any situation and THINK his way out.

Kevin is not bound by either technology or talent because he can use one or the other, but if he needs to he can use both.

As a writer myself, I simply cannot understand why people seem to insist that a prime character must always be "Mr. Powerful" with the muscles of grizzly and the build of Adonis. There are times and situations when a sneaky weakling can do far more than a muscle bound monstrosity.

Er your missing my point GBLW, 'powerful' is not the same as 'strong'. Kyven is powerful because he has a huge level of effective combat ability. His relative level of energy he can retain and stamina he can have compared to a Arcren limits him somewhat but his ability to be mind boggling precise and imaginative with his use of energy DOES make him 'powerful' if not exactly 'in the form of 'energy reserves' or something arbitrary like that.