Walker of the Path, Chapter 3 (Spoilers)

[SYED]

SO we now know the game changing device. A reality altering device that works on a huge range. There was talk about eliminating muskets at some point. SAy they arm their army all with muskets, then use shaman magic, to turn those muskets in to the more modern rifles the arcan army uses. Most guns on this side of the ocean are musket based, so they could potentially remove the enemyguns, while keeping their own working. During the attack on cheston, they made a call that only arcans could hear, to help save them from the humans. SO say after they unlock/deactivate all collars, they send a message telling all arcan they are now free and to head to safety as soon as possible.
Another possible use in addition to just hutting down talkers, is the breaing of crystals.

With no guns or alchemical weaponry, then in a fight humans will be very disadvantaged against the stronger and faster arcans. Say the humans have blades, and the arcan only have claws it would be very close, but if both sides have blades it could go extraordinarily bad for the humans.

Would kyvern be able to protect his force's crystals, by placing them in the shadow realy, while he takes out the enemy ones.

If the noram church is shaped to make arcan slavery acceptable, would the arcans make sure that this religion suffers, so all their places of worship will get targeted. They need to destroy the infrastructure, so that when the missionaries come, they have fertile land to make their church grow. According to the new girl, the spirits could be those seraphs in religous lore. so a place for the shaman are there. If they are catholics, does that mean the pope still exists? If kyvern could gain his support, it would allow him potentiall allies in rebuilding noram.

So in the long term strategy, is to draw the southern armies to defend thier homelands, before the true extant of the arcan forces are known. So to prevent the human armies from uniting. Denna would be more able to defend against the just hte northern armies. SOme time in the future, they could send forces into the north to force the arcan to freedom similarly as done in the south. It is possible that denna can hide the true extant of the arcan army until she is able to retreat in order from the destroyed mines. Imagine, if kyvern can time it right to isolate hte human armies from the arcan armies enough, to destroy all their alchemy weapon in one blow. This stike might wait till they are forced to settle in for winter conflict.

If he keeps that medallion after he becomes human, i wonder if it can allow him to keep using arcan form. We know he is too weak to use most spirit magic, but could he be able to achieve similar effects like the shadow fox.

[SoronelHaetir]

The fun thing is that I suspect Kyvin to be lying about the device (and where the plans came from - that Kyvin created the plan rather than finding it). Oh, it can do the things he claims, but not for the reason he gives. I suspect that it is actually a ruse to allow Kyvin to use his illusion powers on a grand scale by having others re-enforce his own will upon reality. But because it is actually his affinity for illusion re-working reality if the device were to be captured it would be little more than a worthless trinket, since that user would not be nearly so compatible with illusion as Kyvin is.

[Greymist]

The fun thing is that I suspect Kyvin to be lying about the device (and where the plans came from - that Kyvin created the plan rather than finding it). Oh, it can do the things he claims, but not for the reason he gives. I suspect that it is actually a ruse to allow Kyvin to use his illusion powers on a grand scale by having others re-enforce his own will upon reality. But because it is actually his affinity for illusion re-working reality if the device were to be captured it would be little more than a worthless trinket, since that user would not be nearly so compatible with illusion as Kyvin is.

^ I was thinking a similar thing. Especially considering what we read in the last book where Kyven found the ancients bunker, and was shown the past by his spirit.

Also part of the reason it will work, is because the person who made it (Virren) believes it will work, which is all that alchemical devices are in this universe, things that work because people with a very strong will craft them while believing they'll do what they're made to do. So Virren making a device which he believes will can alter reality combined with people imposing their will on reality (al la Kyven), bada bing bada boom, my little pony!

Oh sure there's still some energy provided by the crystal, and some affinity with the colour of crystal used, but imagine if someone was trained to believe that using a green crystal they could make a device that would heal people, would probably work (almost?) as well as a yellow...It's all about the belief.

[SYED]

I think blue crystals are for illusion magic, and that is what kyvern was all about. The thing is is the device simply bolstering his abilities, or it is casting the spell itself. If it was bolstering kyvern, could it bolster other shaman or those that use spirit magic, say monsters or shadow fox arcans? Kyvern claimed the device was something the loremasters destroyed all copies of and killed the creator. A deviced to make a shaman or monster more powerful would be seen as a threat to all noram. For big magical acts, most shamans make a bargin with spirits, this offers another option. A shaman can get some crystals from other shamans, to boost their spells.
If this device works, i wonder if it can be used to boost every of the 3 spells the shadow fox taught kyvern. THe illusion, drain and fear spell. He drains a region, then uses fear on all the rest, large scale devestation to a city.

[SoronelHaetir]

I would think casting either the life-drain or ultimate fear spells on a wide area would get into the sort of dangerous territory that Kyvin mentioned in the last chapter. Since it affects everything/everyone in range.

Sure, you could try to exclude arcans but if you mess up in any way you have just put yourself in a world of hurt.

Just guessing, but I'm thinking it would generally be far safer to just win battles normally than to attempt those kinds of workings.

[SYED]

He did say the range of the device can be altered, so a smaller region would be affected, say a settle ment, so a town, village or even a city. ALso, i am betting if he is joined to the device, there is a chance it wont affect him, so all he needs to make sure is that he is surrounded by enemies.
We know for huge distances, it can alter small changes to reality, but say he decreases the range to something specific designated, could he increase the reality change. What would happen if he froze a river solid at a certain section. The city where new orleans was, is a river city, so what would happen if it froze, and where would the water then go.
What if instead of targeting humans and arcans, he targets the surround ecosystem? SAy he drains the life from all the plant life, and possibly the animals, he is sure to devestate the region, so forcing them to abandon it. This could potentially allow for the humans to be driven away. We know the human armies will be battaling over the mine region, but say every farm and ranch and the wildlife was sudderenly made barren, or their food drained of nutrients. They would be be forced to rely on their logistical systems, which are vulnerable to interception.

[SoronelHaetir]

A different idea for talkers and how to use the device. Change reality so that the talkers with the arcans can be 'tuned' to match existing talkers rather than having to find one that is on a network. That way the arcans could both know what the humans are doing and potentially send out conflicting orders while maintaining the security of their own communications.

[SYED]

What about a device that not only allows any walker to be listerned to, but jammed intercept with a false voice, and tracked? most scouts get outfitted with a talker, so it woud be very dangerous for any force to go in blind.

Imagine a device that tracks and locates every stone in noram. It shows not only where charged alchemy devices are, but those deposits still in the ground, and stored away by the nations. If all their supplies can be tracked, the shadow fox can be sent to eliminate those held by enemy human nations. Crystals have power, so if the shamans have a total monopoly on them, they can use that to influence the human nations in the future.

I talked about the Arcans finding a way to preserve the monsters creatures from potential extinction due to the lack of crystals. what if they go the Shadow Fox Route and make monster race arcans. it is possible to make humans into arcans, monsters into arcans, all this would be is turning a type of arcan into a new one. We know there are wolf, bear, cougar arcans off the top of my head, so get volunteers to get upgraded. I just figured it out, there are monsters due to humans making arcan, the breach was a giant explosion of spirit energy, monsters were created due to the existing imprint of the transformation that created the arcans. So the using the same animals made into arcans, the monsters arose. But with out the device, it simply make them so much more. We know there are feral arcans, would they want to become monsters themselves? It would give them an advantage to survive. Currently shadow fox arcans are not believed to be able to breed with the other types of fox, I hope this could be fixed other wise the potential of a class/caste system arising is always possible.
Are we sure for certain that monster powers come from eating crystals? Alchemy and shaman magics are said to be the same but done in different ways. But in the fighting pens, while shaman and alchemy was blocked, monster powers were allowed. Kyvern has never eaten crystals. Monster potentially do as crystals would boost their powers, but my theory is that monsters have a naturally occurring link to the spirit world, which allows it to gather energy to fuel its abilites. Crystals are found buried mostly underground, I just don't see how most monsters would get to them.

Just had a great idea, using the wide spell device, simply aim it to send every human asleep, deep sleep which they won't wake for hours. That allow the army to walk right in a no take everything, then get away. Sure they could do a lot of damage, but the effect of them being able to just walk in like that would be terrifying.

[SoronelHaetir]

FEL,

A quote from when Kyven is learning to shadow walk: he found no need to
breathe, in fact could not force his lungs to exhale

Given that description I do not see how speech is possible. I could see Kyven being able to produce sound some other way, illusion maybe, but those he's taken and talked with (Nightfall and recently Toby if I recall correctly) do not have any such ability.

[SYED]

The SHaman are the Arcan secret weapon, so it would make sense to create devices just for them. Things to augement and aid their powers. Potenially allows for shamans to be able to do more. Like stalker can not heal, i bet a device that copies the imprint of the spell could work, so all he would need to do is provide the spirit energy. I doubt it would allow mastery in all aspects for all shaman, but it could allow all shaman at least average abilities in every aspect of magic. Kyvern might not be a powerful shaman, but he has stamina. Say he had a device to give all shaman a healing ability, he wont be able to heal the big stuff, but he could use it to heal many minor afflictions. That would allow those with greater healing ability, to preserve their energies to heal the biggest issues and injuries.
SHaman have to gain their power throught htier own skills or ask spirits, they can also drain cystals. I wonder if an alchemy device can act as a bridge to allow shaman to share energies. So less need to make spirit bargains. It could allow them to work a joined project, to allow them to use the groups power and aspects of power. Imagine a group with powerful shaman to provide energy, and shaman with the greatest healing ability, so together they can make the best green crystals.

Imagine the reality warping device aimed at the human armies as they attempt to march on haven during winter. It could take out the crystals, then suppress the fire fires that keep them warm.

[MartinK]

Are you insane? What shall the spirits make of that? Surely you don't want to suggest that spirits don't know what they are doing? If a hunter and stalker would be able to do healings, wouldn't that take away from the times he spends using his main abilities, honing them even further? And a spirit as a proud and powerful as the shadow fox surely you don't want to imply that she is so weak that you would put devices in her shamans hands. To even consider such a thing would be disrespectful and just plain rude to any spirit that has chosen a shaman. And imagine giving those shamans that are considered shamans of all spirits some of those devices. You can't have them outperforming their chosen brothers and sisters across the board. No, no, if the spirits would want their shamans to be more powerful, they would do so themselves. See those nifty medallions the shadow fox uses.

I believe there is a text somewhere, in a military strategy book, that considers the optimal application of force to be no more and no less than the minimum necessary. Of course, the better known proverb simplifies that somewhat with this: To shoot sparrows with a cannon.

[SoronelHaetir]

Martin,

I prefer the "you don't hunt mosquitoes with a crossbow" formulation.

Kyven certainly has no problem using devices to do things he already can but would tire him out to do as a shaman (fire tubes for example).

As for using devices that somehow allow shaman to perform magic they don't normally have access to I believe Kyven is something of a special case due to his totem nature. The Shadow Fox told him fairly early in his walk that there is no alchemical device he cannot duplicate, either she was lying (not an unlikely possibility) or was thinking of the illusion power he had yet to be told about. An example of that, I remember Kyven using an illusory black crystal attack against Devaur (when Kyven made the battle at Riyan not happen) but Kyven didn't have the ability to make it kill at that time.

[SYED]

There 2 kinds of magical object, ones made by shaman, or those made by alchemists. Both might be built to augement shaman, so to allow them better able to serve their people. It is not like these items will get massed produced, shaman will always be limited and only used where they are needed most. SOme might be used up in magic, but some are likely to be renewable and long term, so the firetail shaman, could end up being in charge of an armory/collection of magical devices that are useful the the shaman. So it doubtful they will creeate limitless devices, and due to the shaman having different needs, they will have a wide selection of items.
We know the existing crystals will soon be gone, so any future for magic in noram is dependant on the shaman to produce crystals. While a limited supply would make them valuable, if they wish to keep the potential power and influence, a good supply and production of htem are necessary. It takes a strong shaman to make them, and it is not like a shaman can spend all their time making them. SAy those with the greatest affinities to a particular type of crystal, join with those with the greatest strength. It would make it easier
We know that totem shaman have 2 restrictions, no deal with anyone other than their patron, and some magic is forbidden. They can still use alchemy to get the same result, but the actual sppells dont work for them. I think shaman devices might be another loop hole, but that would only ever grant limited ability.
Currently little magic has spread over the oceans. We know that they dont like the idea of slavery there, so to gain human allies, they could aid in the spread of magic there. I am wondering just how did the second human shaman get born there. The female human shaman suggested that there might be a place in her religion for spirits, so if they use that to form a connection to them, then they could potentially build an alliance. They could set up a arcan mercanary company, armed with alchemy equipment. THey could use them to aid the local rulers, and do good work with the church. Healing and aid in the building of public works.