Spirit Walker - Spoilers - Chapters 1 through part of 14

[MrNerdHair]

I’d take a guess at this point that the shamans appearing is caused by Spirit energy influence. Arcans have crystals close to them all their lives in the form of collars. Kyven spent ten years working with crystals and his father was a crystal miner. Would generational build up of talent be explained by closer proximity to spirit world energy? It might also explain why affinity to those energies appear in arcans first.

OOOH! I like this idea! It's already been established that the majority of crystals are in Arcan collars, so it stands to reason that they would get most of the dosage of magic crystal radiation of mutation and shaman-dom. And, what's more, it solves the problem of why the spirits seem to like the shamans more than the humans: the spirits don't select people to be shamans, as the quote "So you are not crazy, human, though I think the spirits have lost their minds" seems to imply (of course, this statement is made by Stalker, not skilled plot-dissectors like us), but whoever has a certain genetic marker in a certain strength has a conscious connection to the spirit world. The spirits provide them with the ability to channel their power as magic, which essentially binds them to the spirit (not literally, but think about it... free magic for going on a spirit walk? Even I'd take that deal), and allows the spirits to build up a following they use to influence (manipulate?) events in the real world. The spirits aren't sympathizing with the plight of the Arcan by giving them lots of shamans... they're just taking what they can get.

And consider this: my pet theory may be that the spirits are more sinister than they portray themselves to be, but the spirits need shamans, going so far as to stake claims on them before the shaman even realizes what they are. The spirits will go to any lengths to prevent another Breach, and to do that they need to influence events... and to do that they need the only thing that consciously bridges the spirit and material worlds: the shamans. Therefore, the spirits have a vested interest in keeping as many people near crystals as possible, human and Arcan alike, and as the Arcan collars are the most widespread use of crystals in the world, then the spirits would have a vested interest in keeping the Arcans in slavery as long as possible, albeit in conditions as good as possible. I wonder if that's part of the reason that they haven't already acted to free the Arcans... after all, it's been hundreds of years (IIRC), so why does it take the threat of massive Arcan (read: potential shaman) deaths and another Breach to get them to act?

Now, for my naysayers, there are a couple of points off the top of my head that I've neglected to address. First, the shadow fox said she'd take care of the ferrets for him, how did she get them out safely? Did she have to send another shaman for them? Seems like a lot of logistical overhead if every summoning is simply to ask the spirit to calm/heal/kill someone (which is pretty basic stuff) or to ask them to send another shaman. Secondly, the spirits wouldn't have a conflict of interest in Arcan slavery if it produced the first few shamans, and then they simply interbred to make more. Well, this is obvious and correct, but I prefer to stick my head in the sand, so my explanation is that interbreeding combines the genetic markers for "shamanism" in new combination, but stronger shamans must have more mutated magical genes, so the only way to breed a more powerful shaman is to strengthen your shamans by exposing them to crystals. (Then again, maybe there's a magic mutation radiation spell. Eh.)


EDIT: Hey, maybe the magic crystal radiation stuff is what made the Arcans intelligent? It'd be a lot easier for the Loremasters to spew vile lies if they were actually true at some point... say, two hundred years ago, the Arcans were dumb, feral creatures... and the slaving collars are what made them intelligent in the first place? It would explain a lot, including why some Arcans are born less intelligent or feral: they just didn't get many of the magically crystal mutated genes, so they go back to their "natural" level of intelligence. Which, of course, hints at why they are there in the first place... During the war, the losing side was desperate and trying crazy experiments to get an edge, eventually causing the Breach. But along the way, they experimented with Incredible-Hulk-style beefed-up animal supersoldiers that obey orders (read: are pretty dumb). Some escaped the lab or the battlefield, got their freak on, and the rest, they say, is history. Certainly explains where the myth that Arcans were created to serve humanity came from... it's actually true in the first place!

(Edited again for spelling errors... always use the preview button, kids.)

[MrNerdHair]

Heres some food for thought: Fel's original outline for the story
http://forums.sennadar.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1078

Oh my. That does shed new light on things. And indeed, this has some of the standard hallmarks of a furry story. Fel does seem to like his stratified societies, and you can't get more stratified than furry.

And I'm afraid if that is the plot, I'm going to have to throw my lot in firmly with the Loremasters. Corrupt and stupid as they are, they can stand on their own feet (once they get over their silly crystal obsession) and they can in theory get better. The arcans have chosen to be dependent on hand outs from the spirits. They've swapped one collar for another, and while that is their right, I would not want to join them in that venture.

I completely agree. +5 wootness points to boballab for the link, and I've gotta go with the path which has potential for future growth... though the Loremasters should probably be kicked in the butt until they get over their government kick. Engineers ruling a society? As an engineer, I've gotta say that's a recipe for disaster.

[boballab]

The Spirits can influence Humans and Arcans without using a Shaman to do it as seen by this:

He blinked and looked at the nine boys. They seemed to shimmer to his eyes, and then he saw a tiny little cat sitting on the workbench in front of one of them, staring up at the boy with curious eyes. The cat had long, silky white fur, and was surrounded by a soft blue nimbus. It reached out and put its paw on the boy’s wrist, and the boy seemed to calm down a little, his shaking hands becoming still.

As seen the Cat Spirit calmed the boy down so he could pass the test. The Shadowfox could have simply did the same to the farmer that Kyven ran across, but instead of calming it lead him to the ferrets or vise versa. Also think on this, that farmer is very kind to the Arcans that he owns going so far to try and help an aging Arcan Female that in the slave system no longer has value. I think it is more then a coinicdence that he finds a very rare, flawless crystal right where he was having his field plowed. The farmer wanted to help that Arcan but couldn't afford it, that crystal is worth alot, kyven just happens to go to that farm, the ferrets need a good place to go. As you can see too many things for it to be a coinicidence, that was out and out spirit manipulation. The other thing to remember about the spirits: They are diverse, each has an aspect they represent. Some are kind, some are not and they are not all in agreement as shown by the Shadowfox.

You also brought up what ties the Shaman to the spirits. Most Shaman do not have a Totem spirit, they can ask for one if they want but most do not. The reason is as Stalker said without a Totem they can use all types of Magic, once you have a Totem you become resitricted to the aspects of your totem and what they allow. The benefit to having a Totem is that magic within your Totems aspect is stronger for a Totem Shaman then for those without. Now why do the the Shaman listen to the Spirits? Simple really, the Shaman may be genetically able to handle the Spirit Energy but that energy is only given to them at the consent of the spirits. A Shaman that loses the favor of all the spirits can no longer do magic, they become just ordinary Arcans after that whose off spring have the potential to become Shaman. If the Shaman had a Totem Spirit the Spirit would more then likely kill the Shaman. Also remember that the Spirit walk is not a cake walk some Shaman die on their walks.

“Most don’t survive if they fail,” the wolf said simply. “Do not believe that the Walk has no danger in it, human. It will be the most dangerous thing you have ever faced. But that is in the future. Before you can begin the Walk, you must learn about Shaman magic.”

[expedient]

What we're missing here, in order to make a more educated guess, is an understanding of the limits of the spirits ability to influence. The spirits we've seen interacting with humans have only seemed to affect moods. The cat calmed the boy. The eagle perhaps provided confidence to the initiate.

The Shadow Fox has interacted much more physically with Kyven, transforming him and even fighting him into submission. She has also led him on a couple of occasions to crystals and away from danger etc.

“The magic you will use is not kind or gentle, human,” the wolf told him. “It takes a strong body and a strong will to control it. It taxes the body and wearies the mind. You are soft. You would be burned out trying to channel a lick of flame. I must strengthen you, make you ready.”

The channeling of the magic takes a toll as spirit energy is passed to the material plane. What we don't know is if anything is channeled in the other direction from the material plane to the spirit to compensate. When elementals were summoned in Sennadar by sorcerers they gained strength back in the elemental planes. Maybe something similar is happening here. Maybe the more a spirit works with humans or arcans the greater the influence they have in the material plane.

The Shadow Fox created a new species, perhaps in the Breach, which suggests that she already had great influence over the material plane. If the other monsters are a form of avatar for other spirits then these may be the ones with the most power.

“Because the type of magic I will perform cannot be done to those who are not willing,” he answered. “You must accept the aid freely.”

Stalker needs consent to bless Kyv. The Shadow Fox needs to exact consent as a price for a Summoning spell in order change him into an arcan. So here is one limitation.

So, in a way, the spirits have to give consent to channel the energy and so do the shamans. They also have to ask for the use of energy in the first place, and they are tested by the spirits during the Walk. Perhaps there is a risk to the spirits as well that we are not yet aware of, so they kill those who fail the Walk.

Crystal mutation theory may still hold true if the apprentices have mild ability. The ferrets have been collared so they too may have some ability. Shadow Fox is not not one to explain why something can or cannot be done. She tests Kyven to see if he'll help the ferrets but she doesn't explain how she'll get them to the farm. She is a master of deceit and cunning.

The crystals Shadow Fox directs Kyven to may or may not have already been there. The white one may have been planted years before as a contingency for buying out his indenture. Moved by another shaman perhaps. The reds are not so uncommon and would be revealed by powerful spirit sight.

Of course while we try to figure out all these strands, Fel may throw a real curve ball at a later date

[furry_wolf2001b]

One note against the crystal radiation theory.
Humans, especially rich humans use and are close to crystals -every- day.
Poor people like that whore are -not- close to crystals in any form.
Except perhaps grains in the currency, but i doubt allot of it as poor people don't have all that much currency.
And if it where true all crystal cutters or at least allot of them would have the possibility to become shamans, or at least more then regular humans.
It was a whore who got seeded and not a female crystal cutting apprentice, if there even are any, seems to be quite a bit of sexism around.
As far as i know that is, i could be wrong, Dana is not oppressed i think, but i don't remember how kyvens reaction to a fem in armor was .. >_> :-/

Edit, one other thing.
About changing kyven, the shadowfox has a connection to him, she is his totem after all.
That may have made it a bit more easy to, channeling all that energy i mean.

[furry_wolf2001b]

I forgot one other thing too.
-If- some sort of crystal radiation was a trigger. or forming/influensing action, having every free Arcan living in haven wearing or carrying a crystal would boost their Arcan shaman numbers.
As it is the number they have is low, but considering the "walk" is so dangerous, and their jobs, the number is probably not "bad".
And as for hereditary shamanism, it would be to the Arcans benefit to have all shamans spawn like mad if it where.
I would imagine all compatible males and fems would line up to possible have/sire a future shaman.

[MrNerdHair]

One note against the crystal radiation theory.
Humans, especially rich humans use and are close to crystals -every- day.
Poor people like that whore are -not- close to crystals in any form.
Except perhaps grains in the currency, but i doubt allot of it as poor people don't have all that much currency.
And if it where true all crystal cutters or at least allot of them would have the possibility to become shamans, or at least more then regular humans.
It was a whore who got seeded and not a female crystal cutting apprentice, if there even are any, seems to be quite a bit of sexism around.

Eh, so the shadow fox is sexist. I can deal with that. Though maybe the whore was the daughter of a high-potential pairing already.

As for the high-class being exposed to crystal radiation, I don't think that is as big a deal as you'd think, because we don't know about the physics involved with the magic crystal radiation. The difference between the Arcan collars and the devices humans use is that the collars put the crystal smack dab against the Arcan's neck. Now, ordinary radiation follows an inverse-square law, so they'd get a heavier dosage anyhow, but I suspect that the so-called "crystals" are not quite what they seem.

I'd like to find out what their chemical composition and lattice structures are, because I suspect they're made of ordinary earth materials. After all, it's said that when a crystal is used up, it shatters. What about the shards or dust left behind? Their energy has been used up, so they aren't magical anymore, and they don't even have enough residual energy to hold them together, so the leftovers can't be from the spirit world, they have to be from the real world. The energy must exert some physical force, holding the materials together in a configuration they would not naturally be inclined to settle in. Any sort of magical crystal force involved is probably very short-range, because the crystals bond to their settings, which I'm assuming has to do with the same sort of binding force that holds the crystal together because of the ability of the magical power in the crystal to flow through the setting and into the device. Therefore, if there is some binding force that welds crystals to certain materials and metals, it must be short range and have a very strong falloff, greater than the standard inverse-square, I'd bet, because otherwise crystals would either be grabbing hold of any metal they came into the proximity of, or would be bound to their settings loosely enough for them to be removed with a bit or work.

Anyhow, all this is a build up to the argument that the magic crystal radiation is probably caused by (or has the same characteristics as the) magic crystal force, meaning that it's much, much stronger at short range: hence the Arcans' strength in shamanocity because their crystals are literally strapped to their skin or very near it, and the humans' crystals are usually used in devices a little farther away, like lights, automatic forks, etc.

And I know that someone's going to say "That's great and all but it's magic and therefore unpredictable", but where's the fun in that?

[furry_wolf2001b]

Err, i was not trying to say that the shadowfox spirit is sexist, but the human culture around kyven -may- be.
But it may be that having a room full of both gender teenagers are not a good way to teach a trade.
Hormones will always be there after all.
So it could be that things are separated that way, and some professions may there for not be that many of one sex in it because male teaching males and fems teaching fem classes.
Oversimplified i hope you all understand, but i think i made it a bit understandable. :-/

And again, if crystal radiation was a strong factor, it would be simple for shamans making crystals and a bit of jewelry for everyone in haven to boost the number of shamans.
Perhaps calling em "freedom collars" or something, but really don't need to be collars i think, as neither kyven or his parents wore any as far as we know.
Might have some useful function to em too, if they got decent alchemists to make the jewelry.
Heck, some have mating "collars"(edit: in some furry stories), so making something a tradition of it for some reason or other would not be all that hard.
Except some like to run around totally nude.

edit: boy i still write horribly, just fixed it alittle..

[hoppy]

Err, i was not trying to say that the shadowfox spirit is sexist, but the human culture around kyven -may- be.
But it may be that having a room full of both gender teenagers are not a good way to teach a trade.
Hormones will always be there after all.
So it could be that things are separated that way, and some professions may there for not be that many of one sex in it because male teaching males and fems teaching fem classes.
Oversimplified put you understand, but i think i made it a bit understandable. :-/
*snip*

Five other examples of sexism:
1. The girls around kyven's home town were looking at him as good husband material, because he was sure to succeed(thus be a good provider.)
2. The tavern owner, she acted in every way to establish her authority. While this could be the way she was. It seemed to me that she acted that way, because she had a hard time gaining, and keeping her authority.
3. The double standard over the tavern keepers arcans' nudity.
4. The plantation owners husbands problems with her being the boss.
5. The fact that the plantation owner "settled" for the husband she had, and let him act for her in business transactions.

[boballab]

You can't look at Sexism in a Sub modern civilization culture through modern civilization eyes. Remember after the War the Human race fell back to almost Stone age existance ie: Hunter-Gatherer. In Hunter-Gatherer societies work was split up between the sexes not based on political views but on very real differences of the sexes that led to survival. Look at our own distant past to "caveman" times. To get enough food you had to go out, get close to a large oft times dangerous beast and jam a spear into it. Now who do you want to do the deed? Five 135 lb 5'2" Women or five 190lb 5' 10" Men? Biologically the Men are stronger and taller then the women which lets them generate more force in jabbing a spear into a animal, which makes it easier to kill said animal with out loosing too many of your own people. Women are more naturally detail oriented and can last longer doing repetive tasks which allowed them to make better and longer lasting clothing then men did from the dead animal hides. As technology advances it allows the sexes to use said technolgy to counter balance each others natural advantages example: Anyone can learn to shoot a gun no matter what sex. However it takes time to attain that technological base and so what was once a necessary means of survival turns into a cultural bias which we still see today. Now translate that to Kyven's world, the same progression applies. So yeah you will see sexism in a 1700's based technological society just like in our own.

P.S. as a side note most pregnancies, even today, occur during the winter months. The reason is simple, the people spent more time in doors with longer lasting times of darkness. This translated to most births occuring in july through September. Women couldn't take the time in the following months to go out and kill beasties. As we progressed to a agri society that time was for harvesting crops again the women had to stay behind and tend the babies (Remember all babies back then are breast fed). The time of July thru October is important back then to make sure there was enough food to last the winter. This of course lead to a cultrual bias against women that stuck through to modern times.

[ANTIcarrot]

You can't look at Sexism in a Sub modern civilization culture through modern civilization eyes.

Should we also show leniency to Stalin, and not judge him through modern eyes either? You seem to be assuming that just because since the 'first' cera 1700 society was sexist, that another cera 1700 society must be sexist too. It needn't be.

But if that's going to be your view, you should stick to it. Caveman are a victorian invention. Late stone age (mammoth era) hunters used javelin-style weapons to hunt, not spears. Women can throw them just as easily. Maybe they did. Modern farming shows that 'prey' react equally to man, woman, and dog. Chances are women woudl be assisting with the hunt. And since hunting weapons woudl be so important, the knapper would be the one who's best at the job, male or female. Ditto for other tasks.

Women couldn't take the time in the following months to go out and kill beasties. <snip> This of course lead to a cultrual bias against women that stuck through to modern times.

Not so much of the 'of course'. People who stay behind while others do the grunt work are also called leaders, managers, or generals. Also remember that up until recently views about women were shaped by the abramic religions; which has spent a great deal of effort hammering home the opinion that women were inferior. It's difficult to estimate how much such thinking has influenced our views of what is and is not natural.

[GBLW]

Sorry, AntiCarrot, but I have to disagree with your idea that there was no sexism in the hunter/gatherer societies. You see a some of my relatively recent ancestors were what would now be classed as 'hunter/gatherers' - I am Metis, so some of my ancestors happened to be natives of the North American continent. There were definite 'sexist' divisions within the tribes. Men spent much, if not most of their time fishing,hunting, etc. Women spent much of their time gathering, preserving food, caring for children, and so on. I won't go so far as to say that I know what tasks were limited by sexism, but some certainly were.

Of course there were also exceptions, but then humans are known for that trait, so you cannot make blanket statements about any human society. As an example of what I mean, while most North American tribes were ruled by the strongest men or the best hunters, some were ruled by the priests or shaman, while others were matriarchal societies.

Having spoken to natives from as far away as Australia, New Zealand, and Hawaii, I can say quite vigorously that the same sort of relationships existed in many places even in the last couple of hundred years.

[boballab]

The use of the throwing spear came about as an invention due to the losses early man had hunting down large game. From there came the invention of the atatl, a short spear that was thrown by using a mechanical device. However for thousands of years before the throwing spear ancient man hunted large game with a jabbing spear. Onto Native American cultures, my ancestors are of the Leni Lenape tribe, better known as the Delaware Indians. I learned a lot of about the old customs from my Grandfather, things were done by neccessity not by what gender you were. Food was a necessity, clothing was a necessity and you got a lot of those things from deer. Now deer are easily scared by a squalling infants so having the mothers running around with bows and arrows for a week at a time with said infants kind of defeats the whole purpose. Now on the other hand Blackberries don't mind squalling infants one bit.

[GBLW]

things were done by neccessity not by what gender you were.

True, but the training necessary for hunting was usually passed on to the young male child and the training for preserving or preparing food was often passed on to young women, but please don't assume that was a blanket situation in any and every tribe, or even any family. Instead, let's say that the situation I stated was quite often encouraged.

[ANTIcarrot]

For the record, I think the idea of any disaster knocking people back to the stone age is incredibly silly. Large amounts of technology will survive, or humans will be wiped out. One or the other. Having said that...

Sorry, AntiCarrot, but I have to disagree with your idea that there was no sexism in the hunter/gatherer societies.

Bob essentially wrote that cavemen are sexist. I said they might not have been and that there are other ways to organise a stone age society. And then you essentially said, "I disagree. There were exceptions. Not all societies were the same." So what are you disagreeing with?