well all things considered

[dellstart]

yeah , have to agree with some of the above , though not all obviously.I am not fan of Obama or his policies trust me, ( lets not even start on Obama care etc ), yet to be honest with all the Hurricane sandy stuff going on locally , it kinda just passed us .The crazy three or four hour waits for polling stations , didn't help matters.

[lapland]

Most overt signs of biggotry seen at tea party events have been traced to a small group of left wing activist trying to denounce the tea party. The tea party is primarily made of two groups with a singular cause. The conservatives and the libertarians both agree that small government and balanced budget are essential. Other then those ideal, any others expressed are from one side or the other and can fracture the union.

[Fel]

Lap: that may be true where you live, but here in WV, where they don't really bother to hide their racism, it's an entirely different story.

As someone who grew up in such a racist environment, I can see it in the way the tea party operates. First off, racists are never blatant about it unless they're among their own. They put on a polite face in public, but those sensitive to the undercurrents lurking under that polished veneer can see right through it.

What you want to look for are the codewords. John Sununu, one of Romney's surrogates and a tea party backer, threw out just about ALL of them during the campaign. Referring to Obama as "lazy" was one of the RED ALERT BEEP BEEP BEEP codewords, harkening back to the days of slavery where the plantation masters thought their slaves were lazy because, omg, they didn't want to work 18 hours a day at backbreaking labor with almost no food and water. Saying that he needs to learn how to be an American is also a way of saying he is "not us," ergo, "not white." Gringrich, Hannity, Limbaugh, and that jackwagon Ann Coulter have also thrown out codewords that have convinced me, as one of the bastions of the base of the Republican party in that I'm an old, fat, white Christian man, that they are rampaging racists.

And no, I'm not a firebreathing liberal. I just grew up in one of the most racist regions in this nation and heard this crap being spewed by my own family members. When obama got elected in 2008, you couldn't walk into any public area in this town without hearing someone raging about how the "F***ing n*****r got elected. And guess what, it happened again just a week ago.

So yeah, I know racism when I see it. I've lived surrounded by it most of my life. And I say this with complete and total honesty and confidence:

The Tea Party is racist. They represent the dark underbelly of the base of the Republican Party, and the sooner the G.O.P. dumps them and runs them out of their party, the better it will be for them.

Oh, and let me say this again. If you're not white, don't come to West Virginia. Just drive right on through, and when you do drive through, go no further than 1 mile from the interstate. If you don't see the gas station or the restaurant at the exit, don't exit. Find an exit where you can SEE where you need to go from the exit ramp.

And I MEAN IT.

[hermit-bob]

Thank you, Fel, I'm glad I'm not the only one who had warning lights go off during this election. And whose warnings about racism were ignored until afterward.

[bigthunder]

The problem with the " Tea party" republicans is they tend to collect any group of nuts that thinks the republicans are drifting to far to the center. In the SW it's all the anti immigration groups, in the Midwest it's the anti union groups, and in the south you have the racists.

[J-Man5]

Actually I heard the racism in both sides of this election. Down here more south than you Fel in Texas we get fun things done by both parties. The only election that I heard that was won by someone who wouldn't lie was won by a local mayor who died after the primary and they couldn't take his name off the ballot. Unfortunately I think that’s what should be done with all politicians. Line them up and shoot them in the foot every time they make some sort of campaign promise. Then move ever higher.

Actually I think that we will end up having to use a draft system to put people in office. You would have to provide your civic duty for x years and then you go back into the workforce. You would not be able to work in that political branch for life. This would keep lifetime politician and families of politicians from becoming entrenched. Plus even if someone was a total incompetent it wouldn't be worse than what we've seen for the last 50 or so years.

Yes I think that the welfare system is broken. No I don't think it should be completely scrapped. I do think that people should be made to work on something if they have the physical ability. Something like the WPA or Civilian Conservation Corp would help rebuild the country’s infrastructure by using people who are on the government dole. Plus it would provide on the job training for many people. I believe that if you don't work and are healthy enough to you shouldn't eat. I don't believe that everyone needs higher education. I am happy I don't have student loans that put me in an underwater position. I think technical training in public schools is what we need more of. Hey my plumber makes more per hour than I do. In fact he makes more per hour than most doctors when you subtract out their malpractice insurance costs and student loan repayments.

I do believe that our grandparents and great grandparents were correct in saving money and only buying when you have enough money to pay cash. With the possible exception of a house. Even then live within your means. Credit cards should be outlawed. So should pay-day loans. TV ads by politicians and political parties, newspaper ads and radio diatribes by either party. Keep talk radio about things that are beneficial or at least non-controversial. Gardening, Auto repair shows, home improvements, sports and news.

If there is one thing I have learned is that no matter what with politics it can get worse. I'm glad at least for the next 3 - 3 1/2 years we don't have to hear the horrible ads. I had given up on listening to the news or watching TV or reading the newspaper for the last 3 months. Unfortunately there is not a part of the ballot that allows for a “none of the above”. We always end up making the choice of a lesser of two evils. And that is just it. Both sides are just simply evil. Neither has the interest of people. Only their own interests.

Sad. Yes, I AM bitter over it. But that’s the way things are. At least until I get to be the emperor of the earth when our galactic overlords come and fix these problems.

J-Man5, Emperor to be.

[Fel]

Welcome to the new/old system, J-man.

And btw, I agree with a lot of what you put up there. I belong to no party because no party wants me. I'm a fiscal conservative with moderate leanings, so the democrats hate me because I think that welfare should have a hard cap and anyone on welfare should be forced to report to a work center and sit at a table for 8 hours a day to get that welfare if there's no work available picking up trash or digging ditches. But, I'm also a social moderate with libertarian leanings, which means the Republicans think I'm the antichrist because I believe that I have no right to enforce my personal beliefs on others.

This is what pisses me off more about the Republicans than anything else. To me, anyone who votes based on their religion with the intent of forcing others to adhere to their beliefs are no better than the Taliban or Al Qaeda. It's political terrorism carried out with a ballot, not a bomb. Those who say they believe that America has freedom of religion and then turn around and try to make everyone conform to THEIR religion are the darkest and most sinister kind of hypocrite ever devised. Jesus warned his followers not to get involved in politics, "render unto Ceasar that which is Caesar's." This was a stern warning that no Christian should try to use their religion as a battering ram in a political venue. As a Christian, albeit a nearly heretical one by most other Christian's measurements, I am of the firm and enduring belief that religion has no place in law, and one can uphold the law while objecting to it on religious grounds. That is the very essence of what "Congress shall pass no law concerning the establishment of religion" meants to me at the deepest level.

Do I like abortion? Hell no. I think that it should not be a form of birth control, that it should ONLY be used in the events of rape, incest, or the life of the mother. Safe, legal, and RARE is my view. But do I try to change the law to make others conform to my moral belief? Hell no. Abortion, in my opinion, is legal under our Constitution, and while I don't like how some women are using that right, I will uphold their right to have access to it.

Both George Washington and Alexander Hamilton PLEADED with the people not to form political parties. The one time we should have listened to them, greed overtook common sense, and we're paying for it some 200+ years later.

[Seastallion]

Well, Fel, I pretty much agree with everything you said for the most part. I'm probably not as hard as you on the Religious Right (maybe since I used to be one...), but I'm with you. I agree with your stance on Abortion 100%. The last party I was affiliated with was the Republicans, but my brother says he thinks I sound more like a Libertarian. He is essentially one himself as well, and he hates BOTH parties. I'm pretty upset with the Republican Establishment, myself. I haven't forgotten how they treated Ron Paul and his supporters. I'm not a Ron Paul devotee, but I did like most of his positions. I'm a little iffy on his foreign policy stuff, but otherwise, I liked him a lot.

We're both fiscally conservative, and socially moderate. So, right on dude..!

[Mizriath]

Well, I have to say my small part in it.

I have the same issues in my part of the world. Racism exists although the majority try to dampen it or do something about it. Cross-marriages are very frowned upon, still a taboo and being stared hard at and some snide remarks almost always comes across. I came from the minority side and my side of the family is supportive but I have felt the hatred from the other side of the family although it has gotten better over the years.

Politically, I have disagreement over the policies of the ruling party as most time it is self-serving. The spin they put on it is always for the betterment of the community. The opposition is much worse though. At times real anarchist in their brand of politics. Better of the 2 evils. But the opposition voice has been rising and the ruling party has decided to wake up and do more for the community or at least look their part. They won by the slimmest of margins in the elections.

But hey like Fel said, we cannot impose our belief on others but can only try to understand theirs and agree to disagree. Make the best of life nad hopefully we can be real happy and live with the decisions.

[Bester]

Fel, I agree with the vast majority of you say. Politically, you stated my position almost verbatim.

I will say that I somewhat disagree with you on abortion in perspective, if not in law. While I dislike the idea of abortion, I think it is A) not the place of men (of which I of course am one), who make up the vast majority of lawmakers, to dictate what happens to a woman's body or life, B) not the place of the law to intervene, and C) hypocritical to pursue given the level of sex education (abstinence only) given to children and particularly to teens.

The basic problem is that pregnancy, particularly early (teen) pregnancy is a life-changing event for everyone involved, not just for the woman. Our children (both boys and girls) are taught that they should avoid sex before marriage, which is akin to the guy with the fire extinguisher trying to put out an entire house on fire. Very few teenagers are going to make it through their teenage years without sex and, between ignorance and the outright falsities that are known amongst the teenage population, are going to do so completely unprepared to mitigate the risks that are associated with the sex. When common knowledge says that girls "can't get pregnant the first time," or many other such nuggets of wisdom, we are going to face a great number of problems.

As a result of this, girls predictably get pregnant. They are then ostracized by their peers, usually by the father of the child, and sometimes by their own parents. So they get shuffled out of the way where the good girls (or more likely, more lucky girls) can't see them. After this, their chances of getting into college are essentially nil, their chances of getting good job not much better than that, and very few men (particularly young men) are interested in a woman with her own built in family. Face it, at this point, their lives are pretty much ruined; most will try and make do as a single parent, find a job (or two) to try and subsist, and live paycheck to paycheck with the slightest disruption ready to tumble whatever dominoes they've built up of their life. It isn't a fairytale life.

There is adoption, but from my understanding there are a limited number of people looking to adopt, which is further reduced by the weeding out of unsuitable potential adopters. Not to mention that it does nothing for the girls that have to go through the entire pregnancy being ostracized by friends (and very possibly family).

There was an interesting opinion article on CNN not too long ago (I hunted it down here http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/29/opinion/f ... index.html ). I don't agree with everything in the article, but I remember being interested in a part of the article speaking of the Netherlands. The Netherlands has one of the most liberal abortion laws in the world, but has one of the lowest abortion rates in the world. In the 90's, their abortion rates started to rise precipitously, and so they investigated. What they found was that the abortion rate among native (born in the country) countrymen was as low as ever, and the spike was being caused by immigrants with subcultures that didn't have the education and the birth control availability. This led to a 31% increase, over 7 years, for the entire population despite the fact that those born in the country (the vast majority) had no significant increase. I find that interesting and true to human nature; the more you try and clamp down on something the more resistant and problematic it comes.

How do we fix abortion? Well, that requires a multiple part answer, and the various parts aren't palatable to most, especially the religious.

A) We need to fix sex education. Abstinence only education has proven itself to be futile and actually harmful (as in, it causes things to be worse than if there was no sex education). We need actual education that can dispel the innumerable myths and inaccuracies that are rampantly spread through the teen population, and there needs to be direction that teens can follow to minimize risk (both of disease and pregnancy), including birth control methods. Abstinence is unrealistic, and it just simply does not work.

B) We need to give support to those that do become pregnant. We need to educate people so that they aren't so isolated and ostracized. We need to get family to support the pregnant teens, or at least move them out of harmful environments to where they can get support. We need to get them counseling so that they can make decisions and cope with their future. The fathers should shoulder as much of the burden as well. The days of fathers walking away, and maybe paying some child support (and even many of those trying to avoid it or ducking payments) needs to end.

C) We need to improve outlets for adoption. Obviously, we need to protect the safety of those adoptees, and god knows that we need to prevent (further) abuse, but we also need to vastly expand the pool of people willing to adopt. Personally, I think that it might not be the worst thing for adoption law to get a long hard look for improvement, but that is a soapbox for another time.

D) We need to get them opportunities for schooling, for help with job placement, and the other things that can help mitigate the harm to the mother's future if she should decide to keep the child. That's not to say we should place them on permanent welfare, but we have to get them a chance to make something of their lives even while they are supporting their child.

I think that ultimately, if you put into place education, birth control availability, and support mechanisms, then there will be enough relief mechanisms that abortion will be a last resort instead of a first resort that it is in too many places. As long as abortion is the only relief mechanism, it shouldn't come as any surprise that it is, depending on your definition, abused.

And that soapbox came out of no where. I'm going to quietly step away, now.

[the_scot]

Well said Bester!

[GBLW]

To start with, I'm Canadian, so other than chuckling at the many 'threats ' of various Republicans that they were "emigrating to Canada," I looked on the whole election with puzzlement. Had I been a citizen of the US, I'd had voted 'None of the Above,' but I live in Canada and I have to suffer with Harper's 'leadership' (such as it is) so I really can't say a dang thing about your problems - we've got just as many problems as you do, and in some ways ours are added on top of the ones you face.

Anyway, I thought this article might be of interest to you: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20301477 (I didn't think that was possible! - - - Didn't you folks fight one civil war over that already?)

[Mizriath]

Well said Bester.

And then comes the implementation nightmare where religion and culture needs a big shift. But the try we must.

[Isengrim]

Well, it isn't possible to secede just by voting for it.

On the one hand, the story strikes me as hilariously stupid. On the other hand, that could get really ugly if it escalates.

[Spec8472]

Do I like abortion? Hell no. I think that it should not be a form of birth control, that it should ONLY be used in the events of rape, incest, or the life of the mother. Safe, legal, and RARE is my view.

I really didn't want to get involved in this, but, well... here goes:

I believe the view that abortion is being used as a "convenient" form of birth control, has little or no basis in reality. There are many, many reasons why contraceptives may not have been used and resulted in an unintended pregnancy.
Even when contraceptives have been used according to directions, they are not completely effective.

In any case, I honestly don't care about anyone's religious or philosophical beliefs - forcing a women to carry a child to term against her wishes is, to put it mildly: cruel and bizzare.

I agree that schools should be teaching kids about safe sex and contraceptives. I also think that there should also be somewhere that teens can get cheap or free access to contraceptives without harassment or humiliation.