Icon for Godly tarrin

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afrigeek
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Icon for Godly tarrin

Post by afrigeek » Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:46 am

So I was thinking after re-reading this series for the nth time:

It has been said multiple times that it takes a long time for a god to create an icon.. in fact years..and during that time, the god has no way to interact with the world or if the icon is damaged like for the one, he has limited ways. We know this applies to elder gods too since that is the whole reason val's forces were attempting to destroy the goddess' icon.

So that being the case:
1. How was Tarrin the elder god able to so quickly strike all the demon Lord's worshippers? Clearly he hadn't yet had the time to create an icon.
2. Apparently the meeting between Tarrin and the other gods was going to be physical since the One took his icon after the battle saying he had been summoned. if the meeting was not physical, given the ability of gods to do multiple things at once, he wouldn't have needed to leave right there and then. Again the question of where tarrin gets an icon from in such a short time comes up yet again.

My current postulation is that the shadow somehow took on physical properties somewhere else and became the icon when Tarrin thought he had destroyed it with the sword other than that I can't seem to come up with a way round this requirement..
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Re: Icon for Godly tarrin

Post by TStyle » Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:40 pm

I always chalked it up to that when a new god came into being their Icon is made then and there automatically possibly as a natural universal rule. If their Icon was destroyed or damaged however, that's where it takes them time to build up enough power/will to repair/create their Icon. After all, Elder God Tarrin suddenly had access to all the power of the original Elder God of that plane - and it wasn't really being used for much of anything at the time where as other pr-established elder gods already are maintaining and controlling stuff that is under their sphere of influence at the time their Icon is damaged or destroyed.

Even if none of that is true, remember the fact that the God of Gods pretty much placed Tarrin's godly half/shadow in that role and probably could of easily manifested Tarrin's Icon for him right away so he could take care of the Demon Lord and his worshipers.

Edit: Also keep in mind, even though it was a unnatural way to become a god, when Tarrin was elevated to godhood by the Firestaff his Icon was manifested right away.

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Re: Icon for Godly tarrin

Post by gnume » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:15 pm

TStyle wrote: Edit: Also keep in mind, even though it was a unnatural way to become a god, when Tarrin was elevated to godhood by the Firestaff his Icon was manifested right away.
note : it didn't manifest from nothing his mortal body turned into god stone and his icon was formed from that

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Re: Icon for Godly tarrin

Post by Byte Storm » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:43 pm

Because while it takes time to make the icon by the Elder God, the God of Gods elevated Tarrin's godly half himself, creating an immediate icon, and the full power of a true Elder God.

The Elder Gods merely shape the universe they are in. The God of Gods creates the Universe, and may do whatever he wishes with it.

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Re: Icon for Godly tarrin

Post by TStyle » Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:27 pm

gnume wrote:note : it didn't manifest from nothing his mortal body turned into god stone and his icon was formed from that
Quite true, however, I'd think that turning the mortal body into an Icon really doesn't make any difference on that scale, the energy/power required to create an Icon from nothing probably doesn't take hardly a drop more than the energy/power required to transform a mortal body to an Icon.

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Re: Icon for Godly tarrin

Post by gnume » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:22 pm

TStyle wrote:
gnume wrote:note : it didn't manifest from nothing his mortal body turned into god stone and his icon was formed from that
Quite true, however, I'd think that turning the mortal body into an Icon really doesn't make any difference on that scale, the energy/power required to create an Icon from nothing probably doesn't take hardly a drop more than the energy/power required to transform a mortal body to an Icon.
i reread the part again and from what i get the firestaff itself turned tarrins mortal body into god stone tarrins power just reshaped the god stone
that what i get from my understanding

and reshaping takes a lot less power than creating

and to Byte Storm : the god of gods only put tarrins godly half in his construct shadow from what i remember he did no more direct interference from that time on pyrosia

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Re: Icon for Godly tarrin

Post by Byte Storm » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:11 pm

It is never gone into what truly happened in that exchange, just finished re-reading it myself a week ago. But more than likely the God of Gods did the same thing to the construct that the Firestaff did to Tarrin, after linking the soul to it.

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Re: Icon for Godly tarrin

Post by Lochar » Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:51 pm

It's just as likely that as the Elder God of Pyrosia, the rules were never written that while in his own world, he required an Icon to effect it.

Just because Ayise requires one, doesn't mean every world does. Ayise put herself into the rules of Sennadar, which is why when Niami withheld magic from the world, she couldn't be overruled.

So while Elder God Tarrin may or may not have had an Icon, it is very likely that he could effect the world through the power sink that is the All. "You're a child of Pyrosia. You pray to a demon." Bamf! "You no longer exist."


It is Aiyse's role, that if a demon were to ever gain hold of Sennadar, to destroy her own Creation, something she could probably do without an Icon. Same idea, lesser scale.
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Re: Icon for Godly tarrin

Post by TStyle » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:25 am

A good point Lochar, one I hadn't considered.

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Re: Icon for Godly tarrin

Post by gnume » Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:51 am

me too :?

well we need to wait to fal to respond to get the truth

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Re: Icon for Godly tarrin

Post by afrigeek » Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:54 am

Lochar wrote:It's just as likely that as the Elder God of Pyrosia, the rules were never written that while in his own world, he required an Icon to effect it.

Just because Ayise requires one, doesn't mean every world does. Ayise put herself into the rules of Sennadar, which is why when Niami withheld magic from the world, she couldn't be overruled.
Actually the icon rule seems to be pretty much a general rule rather than a sennadar specific one otherwise the ONE wouldn't have been so weakened by Mist's attack on his icon.
Lochar wrote: So while Elder God Tarrin may or may not have had an Icon, it is very likely that he could effect the world through the power sink that is the All. "You're a child of Pyrosia. You pray to a demon." Bamf! "You no longer exist."

It is Aiyse's role, that if a demon were to ever gain hold of Sennadar, to destroy her own Creation, something she could probably do without an Icon. Same idea, lesser scale.
True, this wouldn't require an icon because she would no longer be affecting the world itself but simply causing it to cease to exist. At the same time I wonder about this... Because the demons wouldn't fight so hard to take over a plane if in the end their struggle is futile because the elder god of that plane will just cause it to cease to exist. It would be a useless quest and yet the fact that they probably have conquered some mortal planes means that the solution is not quite so simple.

I would think that it probably would be much more difficult for Ayise if the demons have actually won. I remember Fel mentioning somewhere that basically what the demons want is the power of the ALL of a world which means that in effect they would have taken control of her very power and thus could theoretically resist.
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What actually happened was that George Dubya Bush saw an Iraqi maths teacher carrying a geometry set, accused him of being a member of the notorious Al-gebra movement, and charged him with possessing weapons of maths instruction.

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Re: Icon for Godly tarrin

Post by Lochar » Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:18 am

Yes, which is why she was charged with destroying her world should they get close to that point.
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Re: Icon for Godly tarrin

Post by Hawkeye » Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:50 pm

Why should Tarrin have to build an icon?

When the godly part of Tarrin's soul was used by the god of gods to fill the role of the Elder god of Pyrossia by default Tarrin inherited everything which the former Elder god left behind, when he gave up his existence as Elder god.

That would also include the icon of the former Elder god of Pyrossia! Voila, Tarrin has his icon, which he can remodel after his hearts content, since every god can alter the appearance of his icon effortlessly as long as it is not damaged.

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Re: Icon for Godly tarrin

Post by Belgarion213 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:12 pm

I don't think it works that way. An "Icon' is a representative of the god in questions preense in the plane. While a God exists in a near infinite dimensions they need a metaphor for their power to well exist in a way, at least according to when Tarrin was turned into a Firestaff god. If the Eldar God had disconnected himself from Pyrossia he probably lost his icon or it was destroyed or something. Or its possible its still there and the Former Eldar God became a new Younger God in which case taking over another gods Icon would probably not fly.

EDIT: Remember that Gods are not just defined by power but their own personality and such. Even if Tarrin inherited the position of Eldar God, he just inherited the responsibility and big sea of endless power. I doubt he inherited the former gods portfolios. Since a Icon is a representative of TARRIN, who is markedly different in personality, maturity, knowledge etc to the former Eldar God, he would need to form his own Icon.

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