So who is the strongest?

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Lochar
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Re: So who is the strongest?

Post by Lochar » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:28 am

Why would the contents keep what the container had, once it is outside the container?

The shadow wasn't part of the Elder God Tarrin. The shadow was just something protecting Tarrin's godly soul from attaching to the All of Pyrosia too early, as the God of Gods said.
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Re: So who is the strongest?

Post by boballab » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:52 am

expedient wrote:We can deduce that Pyrosia is near the Core because it is a world strong in magic. What it is not is a Prime world of which Sennadar is one of seven and the closest to the Core of any other material planes by some distance.
Pyrosian Chronicles 3 - Demon's Bane, Chapter 1, Fel wrote: “Mother, if I may ask, why does she call us a ‘Prime?’ It seemed that she had meaning beyond that this is the prime material plane.”

“Sennadar is one of the seven prime material planes closest to the Core,” she answered. “It’s hard to explain, daughter, but in the multiverse, with the limitless planes and alternate material planes, there is a definite center to everything. Well, Sennadar is very close to that center, one of seven material planes that is, while all the others are much further out. There’s a big gap in distance between the seven Primes and the next closest material plane in relation to the Core. That proximity is why our magic is so strong, and why I have special rules I have to follow in the Outer Planes. I’m what’s called a Prime god, a god from a Prime world. I have more restrictions on me than other gods, because of my power.”

“It sounds as if it garners great respect.”

“Fear is more like it,” she answered evenly. “I’m fully restricted to the Outer plane I call home,” she explained. “Other gods may move between planes freely, but we’re not allowed. I can send projections, surely, but those projections aren’t nearly as powerful as the real me. The only time I’m allowed to leave my home plane is to visit the realm of Ayise in her home plane, and nowhere else. All the Elder Gods can visit Ayise, so we can meet and talk in person rather than through projections.”

“I did not know that.”

“We don’t like to talk about our liabilities, you know,” she smiled. “We have tremendous power, daughter, the Elder Gods do, far beyond other Elder Gods of other planes, but that power comes at a price.”

“Power always does, even if you cannot see the cost.”
Short Story about Tarrin's adventures working for Cassiter GoG, Fel wrote: This world was shadowed, it had no magic at all. It was a magic-dead dimension, far, far from the Core, and the color pool that represented it in the Astral was literally nothing but a window that allowed one to look in, but not enter. Only a magician of extreme power could unlock the portal to enter, but no magician in his right mind would come here, because no magic worked at all within the boundaries of this dimension. Once in, he would be trapped here and unable to leave. Only someone with Mother Wynn’s abilities could escape this dimension, and people like her were the rarest beings in the multiverse.
So Elder God Tarrin is not a Prime god but he was born mi’shara and of the Firestaff, both of which indicate that he is a force of Entropy and therefore likely able to overcome conventional restrictions of power and ability.
No the Elder God Tarrin is not a Mi'shara. The Mi'shara aspect and its powers is tied to his mortal soul and you can figure that out by rereading the Pyrosian Chronicles. From the time Niami reanimated Tarrin at the end of Book 5 of Firestaff until Ayise allowed the All to cleave his soul in half (making a mortal soul and a godly soul), he never once was able to use the abilities of a Mi'Shara. If he was able to on top of his Godly powers he wouldn't have lost in his first fight with the One (who is a Younger God). Remember the One simply overwhelmed him, if he still had the Mi'shara abilities at that time he would have been able to beat the one. Also another example that shows that once Tarrin became a God and got a God Soul that he loses the abilities of a Mi'Shara (or that they don't work with his Divine powers) is that when he faced Val (another God of the Firestaff) they were equal in strength. If Tarrin could have used his Mi'Shara abilities with his powers as a God he wouldn't have needed to blow himself up to take Val out with him.

Now as to the question of could the Elder God Tarrin defeat a Prime God of Sennadar, that question was answered by Niami in the Pyrosian Chronicles:
There’s a big gap in distance between the seven Primes and the next closest material plane in relation to the Core.  That proximity is why our magic is so strong, and why I have special rules I have to follow in the Outer Planes.  I’m what’s called a Prime god, a god from a Prime world.  I have more restrictions on me than other gods, because of my power.”

     “It sounds as if it garners great respect.”

     “Fear is more like it,” she answered evenly.  “I’m fully restricted to the Outer plane I call home,” she explained.  “Other gods may move between planes freely, but we’re not allowed.  I can send projections, surely, but those projections aren’t nearly as powerful as the real me.  The only time I’m allowed to leave my home plane is to visit the realm of Ayise in her home plane, and nowhere else.  All the Elder Gods can visit Ayise, so we can meet and talk in person rather than through projections.”

     “I did not know that.”

     “We don’t like to talk about our liabilities, you know,” she smiled.  “We have tremendous power, daughter, the Elder Gods do, far beyond other Elder Gods of other planes, but that power comes at a price.”
Even though The Elder God Tarrin did not divide his power like Aiyse did he is still weaker then each of the individual Prime Gods of Sennadar.
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Re: So who is the strongest?

Post by expedient » Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:26 pm

I realize that in normal circumstances the Prime Elder Gods of Sennadar would beat the Elder God of Pyrosia, I quoted the same segment that you have. However Tarrin has come up with impossible solutions where he has been overpowered before, particularly in removing Val and Gruz. Even Sennadar's pantheon were not able to predict his plans, else they would have attempted to intervene.

Also as a mortal mi'shara Tarrin was overwhelmed and nearly killed a number of times, willpower allowed him to survive and he did just that when he faced The One. I would say he came out of that encounter better than a number of his earlier defeats/setbacks. It is clear in the subtext that when Tarrin was a godling in Crossroads he didn't have the werecat rage taking over his actions. It is less clear that he wasn't mi'shara during that time. Almost everything he faced before invoking the All of Pyrosia, save The One, wasn't much of a threat against his powers. He didn't need to be strong so much as determined to destroy the Firestaff and find a way to kill Gruz. That determination could be argued to be a force of will.
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Re: So who is the strongest?

Post by expedient » Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:48 pm

Reading back my previous comment I might come across as indignant. This was not my intention :oops:, I should have taken more time on the response. I acknowledge that on paper Elder God Tarrin is less powerful than the Prime Elder Gods.

So the question now comes to if Tarrin still has some entropic quality as an Elder God and if he overcome the advantages that the Prime Gods hold.

Firstly he has to get at them when they are either in their home outer planes, in Aiyse's domain or possibly in transit between those locations. For Aiyse herself he'd have to confront her, where she is most powerful, in her home outer plane.
Pyrosian Chronicles 3 - Demon's Bane, Chapter 1, Fel wrote:“Fear is more like it,” she answered evenly. “I’m fully restricted to the Outer plane I call home,” she explained. “Other gods may move between planes freely, but we’re not allowed. I can send projections, surely, but those projections aren’t nearly as powerful as the real me. The only time I’m allowed to leave my home plane is to visit the realm of Ayise in her home plane, and nowhere else. All the Elder Gods can visit Ayise, so we can meet and talk in person rather than through projections.”
Secondly he needs to somehow find or create a threat powerful enough to make each Prime Elder God summit to him, or capable of killing them (we know of one). He would need to capture such knowledge without his objectives being uncovered before he can put his plans into action.

Thirdly he'd need some reason to confront them.

Finally the God of Gods would need to not successfully counter his actions.


He could form a similar threat that the Demon Lords do to the material planes. Where confronting him would cause so much damage that all that the Prime Elder Gods of Sennadar would cause everything they value to be lost. Creating enough of a distraction to cause them to hesitate. Giving Tarrin a chance to overpower them.


If the different worlds [material planes] change status then perhaps Pyrosia could somehow become a Prime World?
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