OK Subjugation has ended

User avatar
madathlon
Initiate
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Shingletown, CA
Contact:

OK Subjugation has ended

Post by madathlon » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:12 am

So how many are Hoping that there will be more to it some day? I think its to good of a story to just end.. And Hope there will be many more parts to it...

Spec8472
Weavespinner
Posts: 1535
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:00 am

Re: OK Subjugation has ended

Post by Spec8472 » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:15 am

madathlon wrote:So how many are Hoping that there will be more to it some day? I think its to good of a story to just end.. And Hope there will be many more parts to it...
I think it's safe to say that we're all hoping that one day it'll continue - but lets not get into the begging/harassing Fel for a new book/chapter thing.

User avatar
madathlon
Initiate
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Shingletown, CA
Contact:

Re: OK Subjugation has ended

Post by madathlon » Sat Jan 27, 2007 5:17 am

Oh, Im not begging.. Im just wondering out loud :D

Spec8472
Weavespinner
Posts: 1535
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:00 am

Re: OK Subjugation has ended

Post by Spec8472 » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:03 am

madathlon wrote:Oh, Im not begging.. Im just wondering out loud :D
Same difference.

User avatar
madathlon
Initiate
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:37 pm
Location: Shingletown, CA
Contact:

Re: OK Subjugation has ended

Post by madathlon » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:07 am

No really.. I did enjoy it.. And I know he has move back on to Demon Bane ( And I cant wiat for it to be released ) I was just curios of what his plans are for this one.. Is it really over.. Or will there be spin off? OR is it Undecided.. And what other Peoples thoughts are..

Spec8472
Weavespinner
Posts: 1535
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:00 am

Re: OK Subjugation has ended

Post by Spec8472 » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:11 am

madathlon wrote:No really.. I did enjoy it.. And I know he has move back on to Demon Bane ( And I cant wiat for it to be released ) I was just curios of what his plans are for this one.. Is it really over.. Or will there be spin off? OR is it Undecided.. And what other Peoples thoughts are..
Check out Fel's previous posts -- it's been answered several times.

eg: <a href="http://sennadar.plebian.net/forum/viewt ... 0">Here</a> just the other day.

barock88
Talent
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:49 am
Location: Philippines

Re: OK Subjugation has ended

Post by barock88 » Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:04 pm

I have been only introduced to the world of sennadar recently, and I quite appreciate fel's writing. I was wondering if any of his loyal readers had suggested before to take up the mantle in writing short stories or similar lengthy novels of their own to continue some of fel's stories. I notice a lot of clamour for fel to write sequels specially with him finishing recently "Subjugation". I know it may not be the same but fel can always guide the new story weaver on how the sennadar universe works.

This may ease some of the pressure on fel to release new works since he is preoccupied with real life. We can continue to enjoy the universe that fel has introduced and we will not be limited to discussing story ideas or spoilers just in this forum. We may even stimulate more creative juices within fel and maybe give his writing muse a good kick in the b**t.
"Death is Death" from A MASTER'S RING by EL SOL

Spec8472
Weavespinner
Posts: 1535
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:00 am

Re: OK Subjugation has ended

Post by Spec8472 » Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:44 pm

barock88 wrote:I have been only introduced to the world of sennadar recently, and I quite appreciate fel's writing.
Welcome!
barock88 wrote:I was wondering if any of his loyal readers had suggested before to take up the mantle in writing short stories or similar lengthy novels of their own to continue some of fel's stories.
If anyone wanted to write in the universes created by Fel, you'd need to contact Fel personally.

Legally speaking - all the fictional characters, places, and events described in Fel's stories are copyrighted, and the copyrights are, of course, owned by Fel.

User avatar
ANTIcarrot
Sui'Kun
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:19 pm
Location: Stevenage, UK
Contact:

Re: OK Subjugation has ended

Post by ANTIcarrot » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:58 pm

madathlon wrote:So how many are Hoping that there will be more to it some day?
I'm going to play Devil's advocate and say, "Not me."

As fun as many parts of the story were, the story highlighted the weakness of Mr Galloway's style of writing even more than the Sennadar stories. To put it simply, count how many human characters there are in Subjugation. Not 'humans with telepathy' or 'humans with magic' or 'humans who are a fashion accessory to a 'with X' human'. How many major or secondary characters are there in Subjugation are there that are subject to exactly the same laws of reality as us lot?

The answer is zero. James almost always makes significant changes to any 'default' human (adding magic/telepathy/fur/wings) before the character appears in a story of his. I strongly believe the reason for this is that he's not very good at writing about humans. Hence he writes about modified humans, which while they look similar behave very differently. On a world of magic you can to an extent get away with this. On Earth it is a hell of a lot more noticeable.

Another example: Count how many human concerns there are in the last chapter. Beyond mentioning the UN early on, 90% of it is about Jason (who's effectively a Faey with pink skin) dealing with other Faey. Earth and humanity aren't mentioned except as a prize to be fought over. The humans on Earth (all six billion of them - including the politicians who have been doing their job for longer than Dahnai) behave like the Trillanes were crop dusting with with Soma. They do nothing, say nothing, protest nothing (not even politely) and play no part in this section of history.

Does that sound like humanity to you No. That's exactly my point.

High fantasy stories like Demons Bane where it's non-humans against non-humans is Mr Galloway's strength. You can make up your own rules then. But our species is defined by reality, and comes with its own set of existing rules. Ignore those rules and you simply get it wrong, and that is his weakness.

dstar
Sorcerer
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:58 pm

Re: OK Subjugation has ended

Post by dstar » Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:23 pm

ANTIcarrot wrote:
As fun as many parts of the story were, the story highlighted the weakness of Mr Galloway's style of writing even more than the Sennadar stories. To put it simply, count how many human characters there are in Subjugation. Not 'humans with telepathy' or 'humans with magic' or 'humans who are a fashion accessory to a 'with X' human'. How many major or secondary characters are there in Subjugation are there that are subject to exactly the same laws of reality as us lot?
Why is this a weakness? You _are_ aware this is fantasy, correct?

Your criticism strikes me as being of the 'SF isn't as good as _real_ writing', and has just as much validity.

Shalon Wood

User avatar
Mistra
Katzh-dashi
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:39 pm

Re: OK Subjugation has ended

Post by Mistra » Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:21 am

yeah, btw, if you read subjubation carefully, you would have noticed that there were rebellions, they just didn't have any telepaths to back them up... hench, humanity couldn't fight back. BTW, most politicians i know would try to get a possition as comfty as possible and live out there life, there aren't alot of idealistic politician.

and... if you'd write about the discovery of America, would you give notice to the fact that the Brittish are having elections?

no pun intended ofcourse, exept for you fel, your stories are so good, it opens a whole new set of amazing possibilities to my imagination,... and that place was already crowded :D

User avatar
ANTIcarrot
Sui'Kun
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:19 pm
Location: Stevenage, UK
Contact:

Re: OK Subjugation has ended

Post by ANTIcarrot » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:29 am

dstar wrote:Why is this a weakness?
Because it's not one of his strengths? Writing has rules. Rules like spelling and grammar. Another rule is 'if you include something from the real world you either change it beyond recognition to cover mistakes, or you get it right'. Sometimes you can break these rules, but only if you are very careful about it.

People won't notice if you get the exact distance between Mars and Neptune wrong, but something as basic as human behavior isn't exactly an obscure subject that can't learn about at the library, or by turning on the news, or by looking out the window. For his own reasons, Fel chose to bypass the issue of macro human behavior as much as he could. I'm guessing it was because he either doesn't like writing that, or knows he isn't very good at it.

And I didn't say 'he got it wrong' I said 'he didn't include it'. His stories also don't include dancing green flamingos. It was not a criticism. If I wanted to do that I'd point out that no tale of the French Resistance would be complete without a scene showing the brutal oppression the French sufered at the hands of the Nazis, and that the lack of such a scene is a gaping hole in Subjugation. He tells us about many a dark and terrible deed, but doesn't show us anything. Off the top of my head, the worst thing that actually happens on camera is the gross abuse of power shown by Jyslin & her buddies in the first few chapters as they stalk Jason.
You _are_ aware this is fantasy, correct? Your criticism strikes me as being of the 'SF isn't as good as _real_ writing',
There is a difference between fantasy and scifi. In both the author can make up whatever rules they like, but in science fiction the author has to stick to them. That's where the name comes from, the stories are about fictional science - and the consequences of any given set of rules for the rest of us.

Missing it out spoils Subjugation for me, and since I do otherwise enjoy his work and find it a gold mine for ideas, I'm hoping he'll spend his future efforts on works where the effect is less noticeable.
Last edited by ANTIcarrot on Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ANTIcarrot
Sui'Kun
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:19 pm
Location: Stevenage, UK
Contact:

Re: OK Subjugation has ended

Post by ANTIcarrot » Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:50 am

Mistra wrote:yeah, btw, if you read subjubation carefully,
Have you ever heard the expression, 'Don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs?' A less well known expression was taught to me by a writer at one of her classes, 'Readers are just tourists admiring the scenery. As a writer, you live here now.' As one of the residents of fantasy land, I speak with complete authority when I say that the tour-guides don't always tell you the truth.

I know how to wonder off the tourist trail and look at all that fancy glitz and glamor from the rear. It's just as interesting from back here for what it doesn't show as it is on your side.

And if you read Subjugation between the lines, instead of on them, you'd see what I see too.

dstar
Sorcerer
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:58 pm

Re: OK Subjugation has ended

Post by dstar » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:46 am

ANTIcarrot wrote:
dstar wrote:Why is this a weakness?
Because it's not one of his strengths? Writing has rules. Rules like spelling and grammar. Another rule is 'if you include something from the real world you either change it beyond recognition to cover mistakes, or you get it right'. Sometimes you can break these rules, but only if you are very careful about it.
Yes. Those rules do not, however, insist that you include everything possible.
You _are_ aware this is fantasy, correct? Your criticism strikes me as being of the 'SF isn't as good as _real_ writing',
There is a difference between fantasy and scifi. In both the author can make up whatever rules they like, but in science fiction the author has to stick to them. That's where the name comes from, the stories are about fictional science - and the consequences of any given set of rules for the rest of us.
I said fantasy, not sf, and I _meant_ fantasy. He's got faster-than-light drives, magic power sources, and shapeshifters. That's fantasy, not SF. You're complaining that he didn't include something you wanted. Hey, great. Everyone has things that they want.

_That doesn't make it a weakness,_ either in the writer or the writing, and to claim it does requires an astonishing degree of arrogance, because it implicitly means that the person making the criticism has the right to tell the writer what to write.

User avatar
Fiferguy
Cloudy, 12C, to -2C o/n with a chance of scattered postings
Posts: 1364
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:03 pm
Location: Kidarn Mountains of Dolaria
Contact:

Re: OK Subjugation has ended

Post by Fiferguy » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:33 am

I think there are several important things to remember here. #1--It's Fel's stories. He can write them however he wants. #2--It's Fel's stories, and he can write them however he wants. #3--If Fel wrote about every little nit-picky thing in the Multiverse he'd be writing for thousands of years. He simply can't write on everything at once. Fel did write about "normal" humans in his book. But they weren't the central idea of the book. The book focused on Jason and his friends. There were many non-telepaths with him, but it focused on JASON. If Fel wandered around talking about this Joe Blow and this Jack Schpitz he'd never get the actual story told. And though good fiction writing might be partly about good use of the language and correct grammer, it is mostly about telling the story. Just like a movie, the author has to make a decision what is important to the story and what isn't.

As far as Fel missing human behavior, I think he did a good job of it. It's hard to have a rebellion against anything if the oppressor knows what you're thinking. As in so many other things with this book, Telepathy is the great equalizer. Without that, there would have been armed resistance all over the world. But the ability to neutralize one's enemies without firing a shot is insurmountable. Add to that the Faey's incredibly advanced technology and you have--to humans at least--an unbeatable enemy. Interstellarly speaking, humans are barely above cavemen. It would be similar to a human going against a dog--the dog may get a bite or two in, but the human is vastly more intelligent and technologically savvy than the dog and would always triumph. Such would be the fight between humans and ANY true space-faring race. Resistance is possible, but if a race was truly able to effectively travel interstellar distances they would have to be much more advanced than current human technology. Add to the equation telepathy and it's a no-win situation for humans.

Also, Fel left a lot of plot threads open on purpose. He needed to leave room for some short story sequels. :twisted:

Locked