Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

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Hearly
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Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by Hearly » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:15 pm

Jason's Warships, To me right here is a Major problem I think, he had all 3 damaged, said to the Imperial navy women, that a few days in Space Dock they'll be as good as new, Now shouldn't Dahnai picked up on this or someone else that he has a space dock someplace? and wouldn't the first place they "check" out be Karis?

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Re: Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by Lochar » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:31 pm

I think Fel meant in 'a' space dock. As in, put them into the docks for repairs.

Any docks would work for the repairs to get them moving again, and since it's tech no non-Karrinne Faey understands, they probably wouldn't realize that the repairs almost didn't count even as a patch job.
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Re: Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by Hearly » Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:42 pm

Lochar wrote:I think Fel meant in 'a' space dock. As in, put them into the docks for repairs.

Any docks would work for the repairs to get them moving again, and since it's tech no non-Karrinne Faey understands, they probably wouldn't realize that the repairs almost didn't count even as a patch job.
Ya, I understand that Lochar, but what space dock? Earth doesn't have one, and I'm pretty sure if they pulled into any Space Dock in the Imperuim I think Dahnai would be one of the first people to know...

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Re: Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by ANTIcarrot » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:46 am

Dahnai also knows that the Kirranes have always stood on the edge of the Imperium. It woudl be entirely feasible (from her PoV) to get assistance from outside the Imperium.

Though Hearly is right to point out that checking out Karris very closely would be a logical thing to do once the house appears again. It's a flaw in Fel's work that he often gives secondary or minor characters mental blinkers to cover holes in logic and plotting. Something he has in common with Anne McCaffery and David Weber.

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Re: Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by Mizriath » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:25 am

I am sure Dahnai, being really inquisitive and intelligent, will send people to investigate Karis. But will anyone return, after being sent to investigate? Note, Imperium current communications rely on stargates. So those sent to investigate will just disappear. Similarly, if Dahnai ever contract a Kimdori, the Kimdori will refuse.

And if checked from afar, Karis is just a planet full of radiation, STILL.
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Re: Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by ANTIcarrot » Fri Jan 26, 2007 3:26 am

Mizriath wrote:And if checked from afar, Karis is just a planet full of radiation, STILL.
We have telescopes on the drawing board that could count the hairs on Jason's head from the orbit of Pluto. We have electro-mechanical devices that are completely immune to the effects of radiation. And we tend to investigate harder that which we don't understand.

I find it difficult to credit that the Faey have worse technology than we do. And Dehnai doesn't strike me as an idiot. If something there is killing her ships then she will know the planet's not as dead as most people believe. And I could have sworn I remember something about Faey liking mysteries as well.

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Re: Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by Fel » Fri Jan 26, 2007 5:39 am

Oh, Dahnai is looking, there's no doubt. That wasn't a slip, that was intentional, a plot device I left in the book that could be used for a later story.

Nice to catch it ;)

As to telescopes: yes, eventually, someone's gonna train a telescope on Karis and see the changes, and investigate. Nobody's done so yet, because for over a thousand years there was nothing there to see. But, it can, and eventually will, happen.

They won't see the space dock, though. That's INSIDE the moon, which is effectively hollow. Even the main doors of the facility are camoflaged to hide them.
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Re: Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by montie1123 » Fri Jan 26, 2007 6:56 am

Also rember NO ONE gets into karis without jason's say so not even the Kimdori step onto the planet without his ok, and over the last 1000+ years have made sure of that. Anyone that goes will most likely never be hurd from agin inless jason says other wise. OH and Fel i really want to know if jason is planing on a larger railgun for his warships, i could see one firing a round the size od a small car that would GUT a Fay startship not to mention mines that could be used to keep people out of his area. I SO hope you write a 2nd book from this univers as i so want to see the other major house get pimpslap by the male from earth.

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Re: Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by Mizriath » Fri Jan 26, 2007 8:34 am

Well... As Fel has said it. I will wait patiently for it. No time frames. finishing the book is already a major accomplishment.

Dahnai is just being Dahnai.
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Re: Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by Phantom » Fri Jan 26, 2007 9:32 am

Also don't forget The kimdori are still tasked with security of the Karis system.

And we have never seen what a Kimdori ship (or several) are able to do yet.

It just could be the Kimdori's ships are Much more advanced then even the Karinne Ships and in the Karis system they are allready under orders from a Karinne to attack anyone not authorized to be there.

Something they have been already doing for over a thousand years

The fact that the Kimdori have destroyed ships in the karis system and Shevak's Knowledge in chapter 20 is more of the proof that they have Warships and not just transport, or scout ships. add to that the communication capiabilitys of the Kimdori we've seen It took what all of a few handfuls seconds for the Kimdori to inform Zaa of the attack on Jason at draconis and her to order Miaari to jump the Defiant in to assist Jason.
The lead Kimdori bowed him, a massive, eight-foot tall black-furred Kimdori male. “I am Shevak,” he said, putting his hand on Jason’s neck. Jason felt that feeling of expansion that came when a Kimdori was sharing, seeing what Jason knew In an instant, the entire functional details of the Defiant and the two destroyers flooded into him. In that instant, he knew everything about the ships; their maneuverability, their firepower, their defensive systems, their capabilities and limitations. And what was more, Shevak was an Elder of martial history, one of the Kimdori living libraries dealing with tactical ship combat, just as Kerreth had been a living history of medical knowledge. In that touch came an education in the aspects of space based combat, a lesson in vectors, firing angles, angles of attack, ship movements, and fleet deployment. In that second of contact, Jason was given centuries of education about the arts of naval warfare. In that instant, Jason became as seasoned as any Naval admiral.
Also Remember that the Kimdori only share with other kimdori or a Karinne Generation.

It was interesting the chat jason had with Zaa about the Faey and Wars
She just smiled at him. “Every day, I am more certain that we could not have found a better man to place on the seat of Karinne,” she told him with a warm, toothy smile and a pat on his shoulder. “Your compassion is as much a credit to you as your resolve, and your adherance to duty. But this is not a hopeless situation, my friend. The Kimdori have seen the very same thing as Dahnai, who is a clever and capable woman whom I respect. We have had many debates on the matter, and have come to the conclusion that it is impossible to change the Faey. They are an immature, arrogant, violent species. They have their bright spots, but they are also too dangerous to be left unattended. That is why we interact with them. The Kimdori work to keep them under control, to prevent them from boiling forth from their borders and waging war on everyone around them. By keeping them focused inward, it keeps the rest of the galaxy safe from them. It may seem cruel, but understand that as we keep them focused on each other, we also try to mitigate their activities, preventing them from warring with each other, holding a shifting peace within their species. Since the failure we suffered that was the Third Civil War, and the loss of our Karinne cousins, we have debated our methods and have decided to take a more active hand, should this situation rise again.
“And it is about to rise. There is much you can do to help without betraying your duties to the house, Jason. The first of which is to know that the Karinnes can take sides. Always before, their obsession with the Program blinded them to the realities of the Imperium. You are not so blind as they. If you do not want to give them Karinne technology, then use Karinne technology for them, but also keep it away from them.”
“The warships.”
------
We have learned over the years that one of the few stimuli to which the Faey will respond is overwhelming force. That is how Dahnai maintains her position, with the threat of force. But her force no longer frightens the Dorranes, Shovalles, and Trillanes. You must add to her force, Jason. Only then will the other houses back down.”
The Kimdori are Babysitting the Faey and have now set up Jason and the Karinnes as keepers of the Faey as well.

But notice the last paragraph they understand overwhelming force.
wouldn't that mean the Kimdori allready have that force to use should it become needed as a last resort.

The Kimdori is would seem are a much much older race then the Faey or even most of the other races in and around the empire.


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Re: Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by ANTIcarrot » Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:46 pm

Fel wrote:They won't see the space dock, though.
Hollowing out the moon's interior will have change the orbital parameters of Karris though. That will be detectable, as will subtle distortions in the solar radiation flux, and the apparent Karris radiation flux. Mathematically, there is no known way of completely eliminating such inconsistencies.

Beyond shooting everyone who comes near you. Or knowing that the Faey might consider checking such obvious information beneath them. Water is (usually) wet after all. Nobles playing scientists probably wouldn't understand why they should check such things.
And we have never seen what a Kimdori ship (or several) are able to do yet.
Speaking of telescopes, if you park a light year from the Karris system a year after the last ship disappeared, you can watch what happened. The Kimdori likely realise the extreme difficulty of completely eliminating that kind of evidence. Besides which, big ships don't strike me as the Kimdori way. I think it's more likely that they keep an eye on those who might investigate the Karris system, and then discredit or blocks funding for anyone who suggests a method that might uncover the truth.

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Re: Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by Lochar » Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:15 pm

ANTIcarrot wrote:
Fel wrote:They won't see the space dock, though.
Hollowing out the moon's interior will have change the orbital parameters of Karris though. That will be detectable, as will subtle distortions in the solar radiation flux, and the apparent Karris radiation flux. Mathematically, there is no known way of completely eliminating such inconsistencies.

Beyond shooting everyone who comes near you. Or knowing that the Faey might consider checking such obvious information beneath them. Water is (usually) wet after all. Nobles playing scientists probably wouldn't understand why they should check such things.
The problem with that idea, is that the Karis moon has been hollowed out a VERY long time. Even during the time the Karrinnes were an active House on Karis. So anything wierd that shows up would actually be the normal, known effect that's been there since before Karis got all glowy.
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Re: Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by Fel » Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:48 am

ANTIcarrot wrote:
Fel wrote:They won't see the space dock, though.
Hollowing out the moon's interior will have change the orbital parameters of Karris though. That will be detectable, as will subtle distortions in the solar radiation flux, and the apparent Karris radiation flux. Mathematically, there is no known way of completely eliminating such inconsistencies.

Beyond shooting everyone who comes near you. Or knowing that the Faey might consider checking such obvious information beneath them. Water is (usually) wet after all. Nobles playing scientists probably wouldn't understand why they should check such things.
And we have never seen what a Kimdori ship (or several) are able to do yet.
Speaking of telescopes, if you park a light year from the Karris system a year after the last ship disappeared, you can watch what happened. The Kimdori likely realise the extreme difficulty of completely eliminating that kind of evidence. Besides which, big ships don't strike me as the Kimdori way. I think it's more likely that they keep an eye on those who might investigate the Karris system, and then discredit or blocks funding for anyone who suggests a method that might uncover the truth.
The deal with that is that they won't be looking at what happened in the past, they're interested in the present.

Modern telescopes are attached to ships with jump engines, so they jump in, get their pictures, jump out.

Using distance to get pictures of the past works...used mainly for history. ;)
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Re: Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by ANTIcarrot » Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:29 pm

Lochar wrote:The problem with that idea, is that the Karris moon has been hollowed out a VERY long time.
It will still be obvious the moon masses only 1/1000th of what it should. (Again, if they bothered to do the math.) It would be hard to see that as natural.
Fel wrote:The deal with that is that they won't be looking at what happened in the past, they're interested in the present.
If in the past the last five ships have disappeared with the loss of all hands, and the present involves me about to follow them and putting my neck on the line, then I imagine I'd be rather interested in exactly what happened to the last one, before it happens to me in the future. Close relatives might also be somewhat interested in what happened to the lost crew, as would insurance companies/salvage companies/pirates with regards to the lost ships.

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Re: Something I picked up on... (spoilers)

Post by Bastor » Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:46 am

quote from AntiCarrot
It will still be obvious the moon masses only 1/1000th of what it should. (Again, if they bothered to do the math.) It would be hard to see that as natural.) end quote

1.You are assuming that all moons are made of the same material. 2. That mass measurements are able to differentiate between natural and artificial mass, 3. The moon as it is now does not weigh the same or perhaps heavier than it should. 4. That the specs that they have for Karis moon is the original data. After 1000+ yrs I'd think the Kimdori would have changed the data.
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