So Fel, what are you not telling us....

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Hearly
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So Fel, what are you not telling us....

Post by Hearly » Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:23 pm

About the CBIM?

I mean, Throughout Chapter 18, it's very very interesting how Miaari tells Jason that Fealty of Cybi is a powerful powerful thing, and when the DenMother gets there she says (quoting from chapter.)

“I wanted to come down and see you with my own eyes. I wanted to see a CBIM once more.”


To me there is something else than a computer who can think, and the knowledge it contains, There is something Specific about a CBIM, that causes them to stand in awe (not sure of any other word) in front of one..

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Re: So Fel, what are you not telling us....

Post by Fiferguy » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:13 pm

I think it's just because it was the ultimate computer that the Karinne's built. A truly artificial intelligence able to think independently (with certain restrictions, like obeying the ruler of the house for example), and communicate telepathically. Add to that the fact that she is the repository of all the knowledge the Karinne possessed, I can understand why she was wanting to see one.

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Re: So Fel, what are you not telling us....

Post by Hearly » Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:18 pm

Fiferguy wrote:I think it's just because it was the ultimate computer that the Karinne's built. A truly artificial intelligence able to think independently (with certain restrictions, like obeying the ruler of the house for example), and communicate telepathically. Add to that the fact that she is the repository of all the knowledge the Karinne possessed, I can understand why she was wanting to see one.
But Fifer, she (denmother) when she said that, did not know any data had been saved from the Academy... Thats what makes me think there is something Fel isn't telling us, but hinted in the chapter.

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Re: So Fel, what are you not telling us....

Post by Fiferguy » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:13 pm

Hearly wrote:
Fiferguy wrote:I think it's just because it was the ultimate computer that the Karinne's built. A truly artificial intelligence able to think independently (with certain restrictions, like obeying the ruler of the house for example), and communicate telepathically. Add to that the fact that she is the repository of all the knowledge the Karinne possessed, I can understand why she was wanting to see one.
But Fifer, she (denmother) when she said that, did not know any data had been saved from the Academy... Thats what makes me think there is something Fel isn't telling us, but hinted in the chapter.
But that's my point. She knew that the computer was there, and she remembered what they were capable of doing. I think merely the POSSIBILITY that the knowledge was stored was a powerful thing. And knowing that the computer existed was also a powerful thing. And they couldn't make the control bands or manufacture any more of their biogenic things that they had promised to only produce on Karis. To me, the mere possibility of all that knowledge and possibility of producing the computers and biogenic devices again is enough to warrant a reaction like the Denmother's.

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Re: So Fel, what are you not telling us....

Post by Wingsolution » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:37 am

but didn't the denmother say that the bracelets weren't that important? something about being nice but not nesicary...

I think what the denmother considered important was all the other tech from the acadamy, as all that tech is better than any one piece of other tech, however usefull...

edit: I'm searching chap 18 now for conformation...
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Re: So Fel, what are you not telling us....

Post by Wingsolution » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:09 am

found one quote:
“When we agreed to help the Karinnes, we agreed that biogenic manufacturing facilities would only exist upon Karis. When Karis was destroyed, we honored those oaths and have not made any more. The memory bands we had ceased working centuries ago.”

“So, the Kimdori had a real interest in getting the Karinnes back.”

“Of course we did. But those reasons are but shadows when compared to the recovering of lost family, Jason,” Zaa told him. “Yes, it will be nice to rebuild the biogenic labs and produce new memory bands and new computers. But they are nothing but tools, and we have functioned without them for hundreds of years quite well. This, this is the true treasure of Karis,” she told him, putting her hand deliberately on his shoulder. “When the Karinnes were destroyed, we despaired. Not for the loss of a trading partner, but for the loss of our cousins, for the people we have known for centuries, who knew the truth of us, people who understood us like no others could. They were not just our partners, Jason. They were our friends, our family. Restoring the family means more to us than anything else. If you commanded that no more biogenic crystals ever be made again, we would abide by that decision happily, for they truly do not matter. They are nothing compared to the two I see before me now.”
in my not-so-humble opinion, that's fairly conclusive that the armbands are minor... but I'll admit that quote can be argued either way...

I also think that the denmother wasn't talking about the research data when she said that cybi's loyalty is no small thing, I think it was more about what it means to have a computer that good, I mean, a CBIM was basicly the best supercomputer that karrine's could build... and that's 50 years ahead of anything that the other faey have, not including telepathic communciation anywhere jason's likely to go... well, maybe not telepathic, but whatever...

my point is, what cybi can do is more important in the long term than what she knows, after all, none of the knowledge is going to be saved, but a secret perfect secratary is priceless...
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Re: So Fel, what are you not telling us....

Post by ANTIcarrot » Sat Jan 20, 2007 4:11 am

Hearly wrote:and when the DenMother gets there she says (quoting from chapter.)
That computer is the last surviving member of an entire sentient species. An entire type of life form that was almost exterminated over a thousand years ago because the Kimdori dropped the ball. She's also someone the Denmother might have want to meet (but couldn't) for the same length of time.

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Re: So Fel, what are you not telling us....

Post by lapland » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:43 am

Wheren't the computers also engenered using Kendori DNA? I thought there was a biogenic connection within the computer. THerefore isn't Ciby actually a cousin to the Kemdori?

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Re: So Fel, what are you not telling us....

Post by ANTIcarrot » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:22 pm

The *generations* were engineered with Kimdori DNA. The CIBY is based largely upon technology/abilities the Kimdori already had. Designing a Faey to interface with a computer rather than the other way round, remember?

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Re: So Fel, what are you not telling us....

Post by Hearly » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:49 am

ANTIcarrot wrote: That computer is the last surviving member of an entire sentient species. An entire type of life form that was almost exterminated over a thousand years ago because the Kimdori dropped the ball. She's also someone the Denmother might have want to meet (but couldn't) for the same length of time.
Now this I could buy, With the way they reacted to Jason once he was Grand Duke/Knew the truth..

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Re: So Fel, what are you not telling us....

Post by lapland » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:54 am

The Project is the Biogenics program, a dual objective program with two branches. The first branch of the program created me. It is biogenic computer technology, utilizing organic crystals that can simulate Faey telepathy.
This indicates that there is a biogenic aspect to the computer itself, not just to the generations. Thus, the biogenic aspect most assuredly came from the Kemdori and that makes Cybi a cousin as well as the Generations. THis would definitly make the DenMother want to visit.

If I misunderstood this perhaps Fel can tell us what he really ment with the organic crystals.

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Re: So Fel, what are you not telling us....

Post by lapland » Sun Jan 21, 2007 12:55 am

The Project is the Biogenics program, a dual objective program with two branches. The first branch of the program created me. It is biogenic computer technology, utilizing organic crystals that can simulate Faey telepathy.
This indicates that there is a biogenic aspect to the computer itself, not just to the generations. Thus, the biogenic aspect most assuredly came from the Kemdori and that makes Cybi a cousin as well as the Generations. THis would definitly make the DenMother want to visit.

If I misunderstood this perhaps Fel can tell us what he really ment with the organic crystals.

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Re: So Fel, what are you not telling us....

Post by Mad Monk » Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:29 am

It does seem suspicious that viewing the CBIM core was the denmother's one act.

The Cybi says "The knowledge of the Karinnes is preserved.”

“Thank the gods,” Zaa breathed, patting her chest. “To lose that would have been a tragedy of untold dimensions.”

It seems to me that the information stored there is not just knowledge, but also something that is needed for some reason. It might also be time critical, because elsewhere the Denmother says: "We were about to undertake the task of bringing Myleena here when we discovered you, Jason, quite by accident."

It seem that the information stored in Cybi might be needed soon for some reason, otherwise why wait 1300 years, tracking Karrinne "Generations" then suddenly decide to send one to Karis?
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