Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

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Mizriath
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Mizriath »

I believe Jason will definitely use a smoke screen before uplifting his LEgionnaires.

Always expect the unexpected. Since Jyslin is already in a direct war, JAson will already have a war on hand. Communication will probably be more creative. ala Kimdori Kiari -
The sea flows as long as Earth exist, Love is alive as long as people exist. I will read Fel's stories as long as my heart still beats.
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Metatrone »

Fiferguy wrote: But Jason has neither the resources nor the manpower to move all that food, supervise the farms, and just have general crowd control. He HAS to have outside help, and using another House's leased resources to move the food is the best idea. If he doesn't, he'll not meet the quota, and the Empress will give it right back to Trillane. By using the Imperial Marines only, he can keep the leased house inline and keep them from doing the kinds of things that Trillane is...

I just wonder what the "worse" things are that Zaa was talking about...
Yeah, that's why I was wondering about it. I just don't think Jason will really give the replicator technology. And besides it's Karinne technology and he wouldn't what to give it away...
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Quindo Ma »

Metatrone wrote:Yeah, that's why I was wondering about it. I just don't think Jason will really give the replicator technology. And besides it's Karinne technology and he wouldn't what to give it away...
The enhanced replicators off Karis will never be given away.
The specs for them, while Jason is on the Scimitar, that's something else.

Jason has already decided to split with some of the technology itself, maybe in some cases "dumbed down" to make it more primive, but still workable. The thing Jason will never do, is to reveal Karis itself, or to take anything (well, almost anything) off of the planet.
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Fiferguy »

Well, he also has to have a carrot to dangle in front of the Empress. Replicator technology that can replicate food would be a mighty big carrot. And it would be a powerful bargaining chip to ask for the return of Earth.
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Phantom »

Quindo Ma wrote:
Metatrone wrote:Yeah, that's why I was wondering about it. I just don't think Jason will really give the replicator technology. And besides it's Karinne technology and he wouldn't what to give it away...
The enhanced replicators off Karis will never be given away.
The specs for them, while Jason is on the Scimitar, that's something else.

Jason has already decided to split with some of the technology itself, maybe in some cases "dumbed down" to make it more primive, but still workable. The thing Jason will never do, is to reveal Karis itself, or to take anything (well, almost anything) off of the planet.
While i agree some what except anything can be taken off of Karis as long as it can't be traced back to there.

some where down the road those destroyers or that cruiser might just be needed.

The problem with Dumbed down tech is ....that some of it can and could be up enginerred ...just the seeing of the dumbed down something might give someone the insight how to make the full featured version of it.

even the Replicator once they get it .....who's to say some other bright engineer might not look at it and suddenly see a way to make it replicate better or a bit diffrently so it can replicate Gold ?

I think Jason should reopen the Karinne academy but only on Earth this time.....the bigest problem with this is not being able to use the old Knowledge and no CBIM ...


Phantom
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Phantom »

Fiferguy wrote:Well, he also has to have a carrot to dangle in front of the Empress. Replicator technology that can replicate food would be a mighty big carrot. And it would be a powerful bargaining chip to ask for the return of Earth.
and the imperial Marines he needs too.


Phantom
And in the fury of this darkest hour
I will be your light
A lifetime for this destiny
For I am Winter born
And in this moment..I will not run
It is my place to stand
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands
(bloodied hands)
And in our Dying, we're more alive-than we have ever been
I've lived for these few seconds
For I am Winter born
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Fiferguy »

I think he'll start building the CBIM and other Generations devices too... All the telepaths on Earth will be able to use them, as well as 235 other telepaths scattered around the Imperium. Also, the Kimdori will want their control bands and such. The manufacture of these devices will have to be done on Karis, as per the agreement between the Karinne and Kimdori, but I believe that there will be more of them. They will keep them secret though, on Karis and the home planet of the Karinne. Jason's already said that the gestalt and control interfaces stay on the ship or on Karis, which means that there won't be any around for people to see. Keeping the academy on an island by itself would also keep the secrets of the Karinne. I don't think he'll move it to Earth. Actually, I don't think he'll reopen the academy again. I think he'll use the knowledge, but I don't think he'll let any of the old Academy knowledge get out.
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Weresmilodon »

First of all, where do people get the idea that all the human telepaths are of the generation? There was only one ancestor of the generation on that ship, and Fel has said in the past that Jason is the only one with that ancestry. All the other telepaths are 'normal', in other words, the only difference in telepathy between them and the Faey is possibly, but not confirmed, that the human portion has equalled out the female is stronger bit. This is however doubtful, as there has been no interference at all to the telepathic genes. They are the same now as they were back in the beginning, the first generation of human-Faey crossbreeds.

And secondly, to reinforce the point that has been made several times in the story, and pointed out several times here on the forum; As far as everyone not on Karis, or in the immediate family of them are concerned, Karis is a radiation infested wasteland. You die before you can get near the planet, even with the most powerful shields available. No one have ever returned. Jason has said that he will not bring a single screw off the planet. Nothing. And no one will ever know about it being inhabitable unless they can be trusted to not ever reveal it. That means that most likely, no one in the rebellion will be told the whole truth, if they are told at all. As long as there is any risk of it getting out, that risk will be removed, and the easiest way to do that is to make sure it never exists in the first place.

(I don't mean to be unpleasant of anything like that, but it seems most people are determined to ignore the reality Fel has set down in order to make how-to-make-a-super-entity guesses and theories. I really wish people would read every chapter word for word, as it is made clear in them that most of the stuff is not going to happen.)
(And there I go again. I need some sleep. I'm getting ranty...)
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Phantom »

Fiferguy wrote:I think he'll start building the CBIM and other Generations devices too... All the telepaths on Earth will be able to use them, as well as 235 other telepaths scattered around the Imperium. Also, the Kimdori will want their control bands and such. The manufacture of these devices will have to be done on Karis, as per the agreement between the Karinne and Kimdori, but I believe that there will be more of them. They will keep them secret though, on Karis and the home planet of the Karinne. Jason's already said that the gestalt and control interfaces stay on the ship or on Karis, which means that there won't be any around for people to see. Keeping the academy on an island by itself would also keep the secrets of the Karinne. I don't think he'll move it to Earth. Actually, I don't think he'll reopen the academy again. I think he'll use the knowledge, but I don't think he'll let any of the old Academy knowledge get out.
Oh I think the ones on Karis (CBIM's) will be rebuilt for sure.
I was saying there wouldn't be one on Earth. and I agree on the Control bands.

The gestalt I think he is going to need to wear one himself for sure Like Miaari said in this quote.
“Why didn’t you just send me here right off, Miaari?” he asked, a bit annoyed. “We could have saved lives!”
“And they would not have taken you seriously,” she told him in reply. “We helped you, allowed you to begin the action against Trillane, to give you a name, Jason. To get the attention of the Siann and the Empress herself upon you, to know who you are. If you would have shown up on Draconis with the ring and declared your dukal rights, they would have laughed you out of the Palace. But this Jason Fox, appearing wearing a gestalt and with a reputation for strength, cunning, and power, they will listen to him. They may not believe him, but they will listen. And that is what you will need.”
That and Arriving in a Old and battered Karinne Scout ship. will Cement Jason's Claims to the Faey People most of all.
But the Gestalt is a Know Trademark of the Karinne.

It more than any other thing will let them see who he is.

Remember Jason if he was just a human wouldn't know anything about wearing a gestalt ....Normal Faey don't wear them no one has for over 1500 years ....But the Karinne all did.

Most Faey will Miss his wearing the Karinne signet Ring ....but they can't Miss his Wearing a Gestalt like all his ancestor's of old did.

It is an inportant part of being a Karinne. just as Blue skin is Faey.


Now as for a new academy wounldn't keeping it on Earth really add security <Grin> ( I mean besides the fact that Very few will ever know that Karis isn't a Dead planet )......it will be much more removed than that old island was.
Just now do you make it work with out a CBIM and the Old karinne Knowledge.... Hummmmm.



Phantom
And in the fury of this darkest hour
I will be your light
A lifetime for this destiny
For I am Winter born
And in this moment..I will not run
It is my place to stand
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands
(bloodied hands)
And in our Dying, we're more alive-than we have ever been
I've lived for these few seconds
For I am Winter born
The CruxShadows "Winterborn" (This Sacrifice)
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Belgarion213 »

All the telepaths on Earth will be able to use them
Actually I don't think thats true. Remember one of the reasons Jason was chosen was because he was a Noble of the Generation. Take for example Tim back on earth. I am pretty sure that he is not of the Generation. He is just decenant from an un-modified Faey/human coupling. Jason is basiclly Unique in that He is a decendant from the noble who was part of the generation that went on that trip.
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Hearly »

Ok, I'm confused Fel...

Early in Chap 18..
“And they would not have taken you seriously,” she told him in reply. “We helped you, allowed you to begin the action against Trillane, to give you a name, Jason. To get the attention of the Siann and the Empress herself upon you, to know who you are. If you would have shown up on Draconis with the ring and declared your dukal rights, they would have laughed you out of the Palace. But this Jason Fox, appearing wearing a gestalt and with a reputation for strength, cunning, and power, they will listen to him. They may not believe him, but they will listen. And that is what you will need.”
Later in the chapter..
“You will,” he told her. “I’ve already decided that everything here on Karis stays on Karis. The Imperium won’t see so much as a moleculartronic board from here. They won’t even know it is here. As far as the Imperium is concerned, Karis is still a radioactive wasteland, and it always will be. The only thing they’ll ever see of the Karinnes is this ship. I won’t even let anyone wear an interface or gestalt off this planet or out of this ship. When we leave the ship, they stay behind.”


So will he wear the gestalt or not when he goes to see the Emperess?
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Phantom »

Hearly wrote:Ok, I'm confused Fel...

So will he wear the gestalt or not when he goes to see the Emperess?
Want me to confuse you some more .....


Jason Brought a gestalt with him when he left on his way to Karis.

Miaari gave it too him


Phantom
And in the fury of this darkest hour
I will be your light
A lifetime for this destiny
For I am Winter born
And in this moment..I will not run
It is my place to stand
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands
(bloodied hands)
And in our Dying, we're more alive-than we have ever been
I've lived for these few seconds
For I am Winter born
The CruxShadows "Winterborn" (This Sacrifice)
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Hearly »

Phantom wrote:
Want me to confuse you some more .....


Jason Brought a gestalt with him when he left on his way to Karis.

Miaari gave it too him


Phantom
No actually the one he is wearing currently he got from the storeroom...
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Phantom »

Belgarion213 wrote:
All the telepaths on Earth will be able to use them
Actually I don't think thats true. Remember one of the reasons Jason was chosen was because he was a Noble of the Generation. Take for example Tim back on earth. I am pretty sure that he is not of the Generation. He is just decenant from an un-modified Faey/human coupling. Jason is basiclly Unique in that He is a decendant from the noble who was part of the generation that went on that trip.
Nope :shock: :lol: oh your correct Jason is Generation and kind of Unique at least on the human side. but in Chapter 18 Fel wrote
[After the institution of the Generations program, other breakthroughs were made. They developed a new type of biogenic crystal that could receive Faey sending, but not respond. But, instead of abandoning the Generations program, they decided to continue on, for the Generations were still far superior to the new technology. They did refine this new system, however. Gestalts were made for the unaltered members of the house made of these new crystals. They didn’t give them the same functions as true gestalts, but they did allow for some moderate usefulness. These interfaces allowed unaltered Karinnes to issue telepathic commands to machines, but only on a one way basis. They also lacked the amplifying abilities of the gestalt. They were built to resemble a gestalt, however, and it became a tradition for all members of the house to wear what you now wear, Jason. The gestalt and the interface became the singular identifying mark of the Karinnes.]
Those were the gestalts we were refering to that the other human telepaths could use. the same type that Maya and the rest of the Countesses are currently wearing at the end of the chapter

:P Phantom
And in the fury of this darkest hour
I will be your light
A lifetime for this destiny
For I am Winter born
And in this moment..I will not run
It is my place to stand
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands
(bloodied hands)
And in our Dying, we're more alive-than we have ever been
I've lived for these few seconds
For I am Winter born
The CruxShadows "Winterborn" (This Sacrifice)
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Re: Subjugation, chapter 18 - Spoilers

Post by Fiferguy »

I think Jason will wear a gestalt when he leaves the ship to see the Empress. But it could be passed off that he found it on Earth. But if he shows up with a dozen or more people all wearing them, they're going to know he didn't get those on Earth. It's a miracle that his original one survived as long as it did intact. For him and Myleena and all his marines and the doc to all show up what looks like thousand year old relics from a long dead house would be very, very suspicious. But for him to show up with a millennium old, battered scout ship and a gestalt that he "found" wouldn't be that hard to believe. Especially since he's already established that he is a rather crafty fellow.

That's why the Kimdori helped him the way they did. To establish him as a very capable, clever human who is also a telepath. He needs that reputation now.

So I think Jason is going to be wearing the Gestalt, while the Marines, the Doc, and Myleena leave theirs on the ship.
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