Fun With Faey tech

Locked
User avatar
Phantom
Leaders of the Off-Topic
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:19 am
Location: "We're everywhere, for your convenience."

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by Phantom »

ANTIcarrot wrote:A much simpler and (grass roots) tactic might be to design some high tech bullets for humanity's low tech guns, and dump the plans on CivNet where all the gun nuts can find them. A discarding sabot neutronium needle might be able to punch through Faey armor if propelled by a powerful enough rifle or shotgun.

Even if the Humans never get an opportunity to use them, the prospect of everyone having 'cop killer' bullets would be another turn to the thumb-screw on Trellane's finances. Especially if their soldiers start clamoring for more effective armor.

Or...

Take a regular human claymore mine, carefully remove the front cover, and the 'marbles' inside, and fill with very small PPGs. Then replace cover and send it to where it can find a lot of faey soldiers. SATNUC I believe is the term. "Pink mist would not even begin to describe the effect."

Remember people *Jason* played for laughs. After he got his arm blown off in Scotland, his wife is playing hard ball.
Sounds good on paper
but we get back to the real reason most can't fight back against the Faey ...Telepathy ..... The faey can take over minds at a distance and even turn then on their on Comrades.

It's one of those Visous Circle things unless you can negate the Faeys # one advantange with another telepath Your TOAST! .....

But Jsylin with a Railgun againt House Armor ....<shivers to think about it>

Oh and remeber Jason bought Armor for his people thats is almost as good as faey front-line Marines wear .....Not this pidly old 3 generation armor Most house troops are issued.

Phantom
And in the fury of this darkest hour
I will be your light
A lifetime for this destiny
For I am Winter born
And in this moment..I will not run
It is my place to stand
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands
(bloodied hands)
And in our Dying, we're more alive-than we have ever been
I've lived for these few seconds
For I am Winter born
The CruxShadows "Winterborn" (This Sacrifice)
Astardis
Initiate
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:15 pm

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by Astardis »

Would be nice to know, if you could use the basic technology of the gestalt and build somethings that can stop telepathy.

A personal telepathy deflector would help earth resistance alot but unfortunatly it would also be hard tokeep that technology a secrot any longer.

Astardis
User avatar
Phantom
Leaders of the Off-Topic
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:19 am
Location: "We're everywhere, for your convenience."

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by Phantom »

Astardis wrote:Would be nice to know, if you could use the basic technology of the gestalt and build somethings that can stop telepathy.

A personal telepathy deflector would help earth resistance alot but unfortunatly it would also be hard tokeep that technology a secrot any longer.

Astardis
I wondered that my self ....with all the research the Karinnes must have done on Telepathy.
It would seem to reason if they found a way to finaly make the gestalt's work ( kind of ) for normal house members ...
Then they must have discovered along the way a way to also Block Telepathy as well.

and if they do have one who says it has to be Karinne technology Maybe they could say Jason developed it durring his fight with the faey.

The Legion has after all succeeded in hiding from the Faey for quite awhile now.

Interesting thought can Jason Interface his Railguns with Karinne Generational gestalt technology .... it would be a great way to keep any of his people from being shot with one of their own weapons.

Plus the Karinnes Drive technology sound like lots of fun too.

Imagine Ordering a freighter full of Slaves to stop and be boarded when it suddenly Jumps away.

How if as it's as I supect Karinne's and Kimdori Have sensors that can track ships in Hyper .....and if so they can predict where that ship will emerge on the other end. so By using their Realtime Hyperspace Jump Engine's they can beat the ship to it's destination and again order them to heave too. or maybe they can intercept ships while in hyperjump.

Lot of those Tech ideas are comming back again <G> lots of new ones as well too


Phantom
And in the fury of this darkest hour
I will be your light
A lifetime for this destiny
For I am Winter born
And in this moment..I will not run
It is my place to stand
We few shall carry hope
Within our bloodied hands
(bloodied hands)
And in our Dying, we're more alive-than we have ever been
I've lived for these few seconds
For I am Winter born
The CruxShadows "Winterborn" (This Sacrifice)
Astardis
Initiate
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:15 pm

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by Astardis »

There is another idea I've got for a while now.

Jason's Railgun is using magnetic impulses to propel the bullet forward. We know, that MPAC's are using metaphased plasma as charges/bullets.
That plasma has to be magnetically contained inside the MPAC's barrel or it would damage or destroy the weapon.

So it probably should be possible to affect the magnetic containment field of the MPAC round with another magnetic field and thus a modified Railgun might be able to fire MPAC charges.
In chapter 6 Fel wrote:Since MPAC fire actually relied on the velocity of the plasma charge to help induce penetration, stopping that round’s velocity was a critical aspect of protection against MPAC fire.
As you can see, that weapon might be the mother-of-all weapons. :twisted:


Astardis
Sangoma
Initiate
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:50 pm

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by Sangoma »

Speaking about shields, Fel wrote somewhere that Karinnes shields can stop most other ship fire, but required so much energy when they spiked that the generators would quit. My question is why not create capacitor/ cell like devices to increase the shield duration.

For example you first make a standard, say, the largest ship weapon faey make requires so much energy to block. Then create the devices with as much minituarization as possible to make them small, then shove them into a bubble like the PPGs. I mean the bubble of a PPG is big enough to fill with a sun, then how much of these capacitors/batteries can you fit?

That way you made your capacitor/cell and they are rated to stop, e.g. 25 hits from the faeys most powerful weapon each and since they made like a PPG you can hook em to your singularity generator to keep recharging.
Your local Witch Doctor
User avatar
Fiferguy
Cloudy, 12C, to -2C o/n with a chance of scattered postings
Posts: 1367
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:03 pm
Location: Kidarn Mountains of Dolaria
Contact:

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by Fiferguy »

Why try to modify a railgun to shoot an MPAC round when there's already a gun that does that? Besides, the railgun is strong enough to punch through even Faey's main combat armor, not the century old junk they have on Earth right now. So why change it? To quote a saying, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

I wonder though... A while back Fel wrote about an idea Jason had for shields against an MPAC round--using a magnetic field to reflect the magnetic envelope of an MPAC round instead of trying to reflect the plasma in the round. I wonder if it would be possible to combine that with the Tetryon armor of the Karinne scout ship. Fel said that the power drain on the Tetryon armor is immense, so I wonder if the magnetic field would help? Maybe not even reflect it, but slow it down enough so the power spike and strain on the Tetryon shielding isn't so bad... Just an idea. 8)
Wingsolution
Katzh-dashi
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:09 pm
Location: LEGO Moon Base
Contact:

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by Wingsolution »

hmm, the way fel has set this up, is telepathy can only be messed with by biologicals, so building a device to interfere is a no-go. however it may be possible to create a bactiria or virus that interfears, but that's illigal and dangerous...

as for redesigning the railguns; that would take a full lab, and several weeks of effort, and with time as short as it is, is impractical, depending on exactly how the field for an MPAC is made in the first place, it might be impossible to have both in the same barrel, or too bulky, or too heavy... though having a second MPAC barrel below the railgun might work, like a standard/grenade launcher configuration... but making specialized ammo is probobly a better bet, think of a larger railgun for ship battles, that launces sabotaged PPGs, I doubt many shields could stand up to that, though I could be wrong...
bored and lazy... it's more fun to talk on gaia...
Quindo Ma
Sorcerer
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:09 am

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by Quindo Ma »

Sangoma wrote:Speaking about shields, Fel wrote somewhere that Karinnes shields can stop most other ship fire, but required so much energy when they spiked that the generators would quit. My question is why not create capacitor/ cell like devices to increase the shield duration.

For example you first make a standard, say, the largest ship weapon faey make requires so much energy to block. Then create the devices with as much minituarization as possible to make them small, then shove them into a bubble like the PPGs. I mean the bubble of a PPG is big enough to fill with a sun, then how much of these capacitors/batteries can you fit?

That way you made your capacitor/cell and they are rated to stop, e.g. 25 hits from the faeys most powerful weapon each and since they made like a PPG you can hook em to your singularity generator to keep recharging.
This would only work with a combination of the current technology, as the space warping wasn't as advanced back with the Karrines as it is now. And since the Karrines didn't need that tech to create their mini-suns for power generation - as they had something entirely different - they didn't truly bother to do that.
But it is something that can be considred.
However, at some point, even those capacitors would overload. The big problem would also be to discharge them somehow. At best, you could create a high energy output beam that (directed at the enemy maybe) could throw that energy back out. Still, too much power influx, and even that would overload. At worst, and this Fel indicated, it wouldn't be the incoming energy that was redirected/absorbed, but the energy output of the shields required to deflect the attack that caused those problems. At one point, the shield generator would simply be unable to keep up the power flow and either force-shutdown, or blow.
Wingsolution wrote:hmm, the way fel has set this up, is telepathy can only be messed with by biologicals, so building a device to interfere is a no-go. however it may be possible to create a bactiria or virus that interfears, but that's illigal and dangerous...
The Karrines already have telepathic technology, and it just so happens to be based on organic material. Anything further is a different question. We know that they have the tech for normal Faey to send telpathically to an interface, and we know that the Generations are fully compatible with the tech. Because of those two things, and because the Karrines believed they would be furthering the Generations rather than trying to build something for the rest of them, that branch was never developed further.
With the background knowledge, it might or might not be possible to create a fully interactive transfer for any non-Gen, but to create telepathic jammers should be, comparatively at least, easy, as you don't have to understand anything specific, just blow noise.
Fiferguy wrote:I wonder though... A while back Fel wrote about an idea Jason had for shields against an MPAC round--using a magnetic field to reflect the magnetic envelope of an MPAC round instead of trying to reflect the plasma in the round. I wonder if it would be possible to combine that with the Tetryon armor of the Karinne scout ship. Fel said that the power drain on the Tetryon armor is immense, so I wonder if the magnetic field would help? Maybe not even reflect it, but slow it down enough so the power spike and strain on the Tetryon shielding isn't so bad... Just an idea. 8)
The armor isn't a power drain, the shield is what could potentially be problematic, due to the overload. The armor itself though is most likely completely incompatible to using Jasons MPAC shields and stealth, unless it were layered on top of the actual armor. If you've ever seen the last 2 episodes of Star Trek: Voyager, then think of that armor buffer they used to block out the Borg weaponry, something in that regard, plopped out when necessary, would be a possible solution. Of course it could just be permanently mounted to the hull, but that has two flaws: the shield/stealth could easily be destroyed even though the armor itself would block any further damage and the wiring to keep it working properly would either have to be external, or have to be broken through the actual armor, making it pretty much worthless in that regard.

It should be possible to do though, if only as an overlapping layer of protection.
User avatar
Fiferguy
Cloudy, 12C, to -2C o/n with a chance of scattered postings
Posts: 1367
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:03 pm
Location: Kidarn Mountains of Dolaria
Contact:

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by Fiferguy »

I meant combining the shield technology. Combine Jason's postulated magnetic MPAC shield and the Tetryon shield. We know that the Tetryon shield will stop MPAC rounds, just not a whole bunch at a time. If he could combine the magnetic field technology and the Tetryon shielding, I think it would increase the usefulness of the Tetryon shielding. The magnetic field could either repel or at least slow down the MPAC round, decreasing the impact energy of the MPAC round, and theoretically decreasing the power spike on the Tetryon shields.

The compressed Neutronium armor is, per Fel, "Compressed Neutronium Armor is crystallized neutronium (neutronium whose molecular structure is altered into a diamond-like tetrahedral crystalline form) that is exposed to a singularity, a miniature black hole. This exposure crushes it, reducing its volume by 65%, and completely closing any molecular anomolies that a weapon might exploit to breach the armor."

So it's still Neutronium. I think that the stealth tech and inverse emitters will work just fine on it. But, Jason has neither the time or resources to do a stealth treatment before North America is incinerated. However, after he gets the Legion out and gets Trillane kicked off North America, I bet he'll be able to do it to all his ships. I believe he'll have to make it a little more redundant though, since it is a combat ship.
Astardis
Initiate
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 10:15 pm

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by Astardis »

Jason's stealth is quite useless on starships since it doesn't mask the gravity distortion of the ship itself. Faey can detect the mass of the ship as soon he leaves the gravity well of a planet.

So either the Karinne got their own version of stealth Jason could use or he will have to go in "hot". :)


Astardis
User avatar
Fiferguy
Cloudy, 12C, to -2C o/n with a chance of scattered postings
Posts: 1367
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:03 pm
Location: Kidarn Mountains of Dolaria
Contact:

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by Fiferguy »

I think he's going to have to do that anyway. He'll need to get the Legion off the planet as fast as possible, and there's no guarantee it'll be night when he gets there. There are too many of the Legion to fit into a dropship or a skimmer, so I think he'll have to actually take the scout ship to Cheyenne Mountain. All while under fire from Trillane Battle Cruisers and Fighters. It's going to be a lot of fun... :twisted:

Ok...Star Trek crossover time... I wonder if the Karinne had any kind of matter transporter device... I doubt it, but it's worth a shot. :wink:
User avatar
ANTIcarrot
Sui'Kun
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:19 pm
Location: Stevenage, UK
Contact:

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by ANTIcarrot »

Phantom wrote:Sounds good on paper but we get back to the real reason most can't fight back against the Faey ...Telepathy .....
Is over rated. A Faey soldier surrounded by tens of thousands of humans cannot possibly watch them all. Any given person can only concentrate on a few things at once. Even random sampling wouldn't help beyond a certain point. Once just one person snaps and gets off a single lethal shot then everyone will know that it is possible.

I believe that going from being surrounded by people who all know they can't hurt you to being surrounded by people who believe they can hurt you or one of your friends if they get lucky, and who all want to, would be a psychological blow to Faey moral.
It's one of those Visous Circle things unless you can negate the Faeys # one advantange with another telepath Your TOAST! .....
That's the same kind of false logic that lost Vietnam. You can always counter something powerful indirectly, in the same way the Iraqi insurgents are currently blowing up tanks even though they have no tanks of their own. However you design telepathy from a story telling point of view, a sufficiently creative person or people will be able to devise ways around it.
User avatar
Fiferguy
Cloudy, 12C, to -2C o/n with a chance of scattered postings
Posts: 1367
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:03 pm
Location: Kidarn Mountains of Dolaria
Contact:

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by Fiferguy »

You have to remember though, it was said several times throughout the book that normal, non-telepath humans broadcast their thoughts. That's why Jason was always getting scanned--the Faey couldn't passively hear his thoughts. Any human that actively thinks about rebellion will be monitored. The only exception are those in Cheyenne mountain, who have telepaths for shielding, and those living in the Preserves. And they don't have weapons that will be effective against Faey armor. At the beginning of the book, Fel describes one of the Faey getting hit by an SUV before they understood Earth crosswalks. The Faey bounced for a few feet, dusted herself off, and got up. And this is with hundred year old surplus junk. Now that Jyslin has upped the ante, I would imagine that they're properly equipped. Do you think that anything that a human could possess that would even have a chance at that? A round from a tank would probably bounce off it. They're designed to take a hit from an MPAC, and by that time it'd be too late.

For the numbers thing, yes a thousand or so humans could overwhelm a single Faey. But that Faey would definitely have time to send for help, and a platoon of Faey would descend onto the crowd. While one Faey couldn't control that many people, a platoon most likely could. Add that to the fact that a crowd of a hundred or more would probably draw a patrol's attention, you would never see that many Humans against a single Faey. And even if someone did get off a lucky shot, it's doubtful that they'd get off many. And the treatment that Trillane would do to the perpetrator would discourage any further attempts.
User avatar
ANTIcarrot
Sui'Kun
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 12:19 pm
Location: Stevenage, UK
Contact:

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by ANTIcarrot »

A round from a tank would probably bounce off it.
An MBT tank round has ten times more energy and is not going that much slower than one of Jason's rail gun rounds. Fel has decided elsewhere that KE rounds *do* work against modern armor. He's also said without telepathy human weapons would have had a stand up chance of hurting the Faey.

Every time FEL talks about MPACs, he ends up describing them as either HEAT and/or APEX rounds. Neither of which are particularly difficult to armor against. Based upon how they're described a water balloon would stop one, and two 2mm sheets of aluminum separated by a foot of polystyrene would act as perfectly suitable ablative armor.
You have to remember though, it was said several times throughout the book that normal, non-telepath humans broadcast their thoughts.
Broadcasting thoughts won't help you. Listening to ten thousand people talking at once is not going to be easy. And that's assuming the person attacking you is within 10km or you. If they're on the other side of the world (which is quite possible with Feay or our tech) then jedi mind tricks simply won't work.

Other simple tricks like releasing mods for popular computer games so that lots of people at any given time are thinking about killing that bastard Faey on the second level with the MPAC, who just won't die. After the hundredth false alarm, will then Faey react so quickly as they did the first time?

And you assume the Faey will actually be doing their job. I'd be surprised if (after a year or two) the marines are doing that even 80% of the time. The army might well be hovering between 20% or 40%. Believing yourself to be invincible is tantamount to proving your not.
Quindo Ma
Sorcerer
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:09 am

Re: Fun With Faey tech

Post by Quindo Ma »

Just remember that the Faey haven't been there that long.
On March 12th, 2005, they arrived in two immense starships and addressed the peoples of Earth via radio transmission, in every major language, that Earth had two weeks to surrender to the Faey Imperium or face war.
Chapter 1
Raista, 9 Shiaa, 4392, Orthodox calendar;
Wednesday, 14 May 2007, Native regional reckoning
New Orleans, Gamia Province, American Sector
That's just over 2 years between their arrival, and Jason's first introduction to us.
What you are describing would most likely work, but it would take a lot longer to implement, a lot longer until the Faey would relax enough to allow such games to happen. Not to mention that there has been trouble in getting everything under control, and most Faey are still highly alert about the situation, even if some weren't anymore.

And with the appearance of The Legion, most such things would be seen as being Jasons fault anyway, even if he had no idea about them. So while a revolt in such a way might be plannable, this story is not theirs. We follow Jason, and his life. :)
Locked