Possible loose ends that get tied up in Insurrection

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boballab
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Possible loose ends that get tied up in Insurrection

Post by boballab »

There is a few loose ends from Subjugation laying around that Fel might use in Insurrection so I will list what I can think of and lets see if we can fathom Fel's devious brain.

1. What ever became of the Faey from the scout ship that Jason recalled?

2. What ever bacame of the ship that brought Zuy to earth?

We know it either had to have crashed or been hidden like the scout ship Jason recalled. My bet is that it crashed and Trillane found some Karrine tech including a gestalt that has taken them 5 years to reverse engineer. That would explain loose end #3.

3. What was that huge discrepency in mass that left earth?

The number of people taken doesn't account for it nor does simple mining but if they found a crashed Karrine scout ship it would.

4. What ever became of the female human telepath taken from earth?

Here is I belive the PIVOTAL loose end that will be used in Insurrection to neutralize Jason.
The logic Cybi used that the Karrine's were to small in number to survive and need to start a breeding program, I believe Zuy would have thought of the same thing. She would have worked from a worst case scenerio and assumed she was the last Karrine noble and to protect the generations would have had as many children as possible. I belive the captured human telepath is a descendent of Zuy just like Jason, a 97th generation and able to use a gestalt. Since Females of the same line are stonger telepaths then males I belive Trillane brainwashed her and are planning to use her against Jason since she would be stronger. Remember Myleena a 97th generation of the same line is stronger then Jason. Remember also she might be strong but she would have no training and she was captured by the Trillanes. We also know that probes have been showing up at Karis what if one of those Probes was a manned one with her on it in gestalt? She could commune directly with Cybi and she could instruct him not to tell anyone she did so and he would obey since she is a Karrine. Remember even tho Cybi is the most advanced AI/computer around he is a computer and would not volunteer Info he has to be asked. She could plunder all the Karrine Tech info and Jason wouldn't know anything about it also even if a Kimdori got near her in or near Karis they would just assume she was just another Karrine unless it was Kiarri or Miarri, they wouldn't know any better without sharing which they wouldn't do withour permission. She could theortically have full run of Karis and not be found out. We also don't know the full extent of Noble chaters for example if she is a Karrine noble can she contest Jason's right to the Karrine Throne and if so how does it work. This in my humble opion is the biggest loose thread out there, it could doom everything about the Imperium and the Karrines.

5. Why did it take so long for the sensors to find telepaths in the London area and when they did that was when Jason was found out?

When the Trillanes captures the human telepath they must have discovered the Faey connection and traced it back to England. Remember the the cargo ship that Jason discovered came from London. I believe the Trillanes were grabbing human telepaths from the London area some might even be generations. Once Jason grabbed that telepath from New York the Trillanes knew Jason was actively hunting them and set a trap in London for him.

I believe the resources that the Kimdori don't know about that are mentioned by Fel in his little blurb is reverse engineered Karrine Tech that will give them and their partners and advantage over the Imperial fleet. Remember in chapter one Jason and Dahani are wondering why the Uzmuni would back Trillane when they would normally get wiped out by the Imperial fleet. The answer could be a trap to wipe out or severly damage the fleet using Karrine Tech.
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kabalman2000
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Re: Possible loose ends that get tied up in Insurrection

Post by kabalman2000 »

# 1
Spoiler
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yes, I wondered why Jason hasn't already scouted the planet mentioned in the Scimitar logs at the beginning of Insurrection. I certainly would have had that near the top of my to-do list.

A group of lost Karrines is one of the first things I thought of after reading the Insurrection teaser, but not the Scimitar's crew.
# 2 it would be good to know, but it either did not survive (or Cybi would have sensed it) or they figured out some way to keep it in another time frame and have it pop out every hundred years or so to see what is going on (ref: Brigadoon).

# 3 it could very well be water as well as artifacts (mentioned by Dahani in her tirade at ?Mirae? Trillane)

# 4 there are actually at least 3 telepaths taken from Earth. Myleena tells Jason that he is one of 5 known human telepaths, take away him and Tim and that leaves 3 others. She doesn't know about Temika or Ian at the time. But it would seem far fetched that none of the other human telepaths is a Generation.

# 5 is explained by coincidence and plot device. The coincidence is that Myleena finally got angry enough to figure out how to find the secure relay, the plot device is that it was necessary for her to find it when he was outside of Cheyenne mountain for an extended period, otherwise the rebellion falls apart.
boballab
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Re: Possible loose ends that get tied up in Insurrection

Post by boballab »

If the ship that brought Jason's ancestor to Earth crashed and the communications equipment was destroyed or taken apart, then Cybi wouldn't be able to detect that ship. Somewhere/Someplace that ship or wreckage of it still exists it will be interesting to see if Fel uses it in this book or in a Third or later Book. Aslo after the events in Chapter 3 I think Maeri is really going to be up the creek without paddle unless she plays nice with Jason. I think when it is all said and done she will have to come clean to him about all she knows.
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Hearly
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Re: Possible loose ends that get tied up in Insurrection

Post by Hearly »

boballab wrote:If the ship that brought Jason's ancestor to Earth crashed and the communications equipment was destroyed or taken apart, then Cybi wouldn't be able to detect that ship. Somewhere/Someplace that ship or wreckage of it still exists it will be interesting to see if Fel uses it in this book or in a Third or later Book. Aslo after the events in Chapter 3 I think Maeri is really going to be up the creek without paddle unless she plays nice with Jason. I think when it is all said and done she will have to come clean to him about all she knows.
I thought someplace Fel said that the people who landed on earth, took all there Tech loaded it into the ship and launched the ship towards the sun..
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Re: Possible loose ends that get tied up in Insurrection

Post by kabalman2000 »

Well ... I guess it's possible the ship accounted for the mass but let's do some math. The mass of the Earth times the stated percentage loss.

(5.9742 × (10^24) kg ) x 0.00354% = 2.1148668 × 10^20 kg (x 10^17 metric tonnes)

So the amount of mass the Earth is short is 211,486,680,000,000,000 tonnes.

Now ship mass. A command ship is a couple of miles long so let's call it a Borg cube 3 miles to each side. Now we'll make it solid gold massing 19gm/cm^3 or 19,000,000,000 tonnes/km^3 yielding:

((3 miles x 1.609344 km/mile) ^ 3) x (19 x 10^9) tonne/km^3 = 2.13827728 x 10^12 tonnes

So a solid gold command ship (no interior spaces) would be less than 0.0000102% of the missing mass. I have to think that a destroyer sized vessel would be an even more insignificant portion of the missing mass. Compressed neutronium would have to be at least a million times heavier than gold to even get near 1% of the missing mass by removing a scout ship.

Not that they couldn't have recovered one. It's just that expecting it to be a significant portion of the missing mass doesn't hold up.

Although, I just did the calcs and the Trellanes would have had to remove about 15% of the total water on earth to remove that much tonnage.

((5.9742 × (10^24)) x (0.00354% + 0.0000117%)) / (1.4 × (10^21)) = 15.2%

If this was all from the oceans it would drop sea levels by over 54 meters (or about 180 feet). I'm thinking people would notice. So now I'm wondering what they did remove .....
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Re: Possible loose ends that get tied up in Insurrection

Post by boballab »

kabalman2000 wrote:Well ... I guess it's possible the ship accounted for the mass but let's do some math. The mass of the Earth times the stated percentage loss.

(5.9742 × (10^24) kg ) x 0.00354% = 2.1148668 × 10^20 kg (x 10^17 metric tonnes)

So the amount of mass the Earth is short is 211,486,680,000,000,000 tonnes.

Now ship mass. A command ship is a couple of miles long so let's call it a Borg cube 3 miles to each side. Now we'll make it solid gold massing 19gm/cm^3 or 19,000,000,000 tonnes/km^3 yielding:

((3 miles x 1.609344 km/mile) ^ 3) x (19 x 10^9) tonne/km^3 = 2.13827728 x 10^12 tonnes

So a solid gold command ship (no interior spaces) would be less than 0.0000102% of the missing mass. I have to think that a destroyer sized vessel would be an even more Insignificant portion of the missing mass. Compressed neutronium would have to be at least a million times heavier than gold to even get near 1% of the missing mass by removing a scout ship.

Not that they couldn't have recovered one. It's just that expecting it to be a significant portion of the missing mass doesn't hold up.

Although, I just did the calcs and the Trellanes would have had to remove about 15% of the total water on earth to remove that much tonnage.

((5.9742 × (10^24)) x (0.00354% + 0.0000117%)) / (1.4 × (10^21)) = 15.2%

If this was all from the oceans it would drop sea levels by over 54 meters (or about 180 feet). I'm thinking people would notice. So now I'm wondering what they did remove .....
Nice math and I haven't had to us that since Naval Nuclear Power School but I think you over looked one factor in your equations.

I don't think Fel used this type math when he wrote Subjugation. I think he just pulled numbers out as a plot device to show that Trillane was doing something more then just taking a few million people off the planet, as well as mining and farming. I believe he left a deliberate loose thread there for later storyline use.

Now to the other thing on the ship, I believe the poster is mixing up 2 different ships. The one that crashed/hidden from earth and the scout ship Jason used. The scout ship that Jason used was stripped and sent to a Nebula to be hidden. The one on Earth is never mentioned because the only evidence of Faey on Earth was in Mythology. Fel has never written anything that I have found were Jason went back to find out more about his ancestors on Earth. He just accepted what he was and got caught up with what he needed to do.

Hopefully the speculation we bring up might give Fel some Ideas for more Subjugation stories in the future.
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Hearly
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Re: Possible loose ends that get tied up in Insurrection

Post by Hearly »

Fel did say what happened to the ship, it was in an IRC chat.


[15:58] <Fel> those genetic patterns will be apparent. But finding out the WHY is
what's going to be very difficult, because the survivors of Karinne actively hid
themselves and left no trace of their existence behind
[15:58] <Fel> they literally came to earth naked...they didn't even bring clothes, so
NOTHING could be used to track back to them.
[15:59] <Fel> no tools, no technology, no ships, not even clothing.
[15:59] <Fel> the ships that brought them were sent off by remote control and flown
into the sun



Knew there was something someplace.. From a Chat log in Oct of 2005
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Fel
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Re: Possible loose ends that get tied up in Insurrection

Post by Fel »

Yeah, just so. Zera Karinne and her people literally came to Earth naked. They sent their ship and everything in it into the sun, so the Imperium could not use it to try to find them.
Just another guy from the shallow end of the gene pool.
boballab
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Re: Possible loose ends that get tied up in Insurrection

Post by boballab »

Well sneaky pulling hidden info out I didn't have access to, well thats tied up at least. Now we just got to see what other suprises are out there.
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Re: Possible loose ends that get tied up in Insurrection

Post by SYED »

this is just me, but when jason was told of 5 telepaths known to the empress by Myleena, so where did they go jason, tim, the girl on campus and two unkowns. also are the 3 million human soldiers, with the Uruma or on acturus, also can jason really order his forces to fire on the mind controlled, espeacially on karis, also are they going to tell all three fleets where the enemy is going to appear and give mines, also trillane is screwed they almost implemented a plot when made them the puppets of a species aiming at taking down the imperium, if they stilla house they are going to be gutted, their navy is definitly gona get a beating, a fleet of 15 ships taken out by three, so around 138 ships heading to thier planet, so they need a fleet of a minimum of 700 ships of equal or higher ships class ships. also consortium energy beings that have some skill in hyperspace, what would 1000 years of the program, on karinnes who saw their familyy hunted down and slautered, planet murdered, driven to become power full enough to have revenge on the imperium that betrayed them. also they hate jason and his as they believe them traitor to the karinnes for helping the imperium at all. .oo354 mass missing, water, ore, people, cattle ,plants and soil, add to that treasures from all over would, could barely make this
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boballab
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Re: Possible loose ends that get tied up in Insurrection

Post by boballab »

Yeah the 5 only Telepath thing is only what Myleena knew at the time, I'm sure Maeri Trillane wasn't taking Myleena into her confidence on her slaving activities. We know there is more then 5 Human Telepaths just from what Jason found and brought into House Karrine. We know that the Trillanes were hunting Human Telepaths before Jason was and they had all the advantages in finding them ie: the physical that Jason would have had to take a Tulane. It seems beyond reasoning that Jason was able to find as many as he did while hiding out and with Trillane having a head start and have Trillane only find 1 and that was the girl that expressed at Tulane. Another thought remember its been over 5 years since that girl expressed how much you want to bet that after they went to work on her they used her as a brood mare to produce more. There could be Generation childeren still in enemy hands. We are also assuming that this girl had no brothers or sisters and that her parents were dead. The Trillanes would have taken all her relatives when they took her so any siblings she had are also Generations and so was at least one of her parents. It sure seems a strange coincidence that she is from scotland and that is also were Jason found Seamus and the clues to his heritage.
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Re: Possible loose ends that get tied up in Insurrection

Post by Blyker »

There is one flaw in your reasoning: How would anyone outside of the small group around Jason know about a generation? To them its just a human telepath.

The one thing that irks me is the imo to active role of the Denmother in this story. Sure she could be active but why would she leave her own planet to go to earth?
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Re: Possible loose ends that get tied up in Insurrection

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Blyker wrote:There is one flaw in your reasoning: How would anyone outside of the small group around Jason know about a generation? To them its just a human telepath.

The one thing that irks me is the imo to active role of the Denmother in this story. Sure she could be active but why would she leave her own planet to go to earth?
The Generation thing would come back to DNA, they could have matched her DNA strands to any Karrine that might have married/bred into Trilliane or any other house. For example it is in Imperial records that Myleena has a Karrine Ancestor and all it would take is a look at the DNA. They would compare her DNA to the normal Human Telepaths and find a difference, also Jason's DNA was in Trillane records from the time he took the tests, including every physical he took while in college under the Faey. Remember Jason used that DNA test to show he had a Faey ancestor and that the Empress pronounced he is Karrine, so all it would take would be to compare any Human Telepath's DNA profile to Jason's DNA recond to see if that person was Karrine.

The Denmother being there was because she was a Generation and only the second one that was Human. She is making damm sure nothing would happen to her or Jason. The Denmother has shown that she cares Deeply for both Jason and Myleena, it would be natural for her to want to make nothing bad happens to Rahni.
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