Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

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Not a ID
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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Wed Jan 29, 2020 2:00 am

NSC wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:41 pm
I'm rather surprised that Jason, and Dahnai, appear to have moved on so quickly without tearing down the medical service and pinpointing the individual responsible for the retrovirus, and making a galaxy wide example of them.
They don't have proof that the medical service was behind it. Until then, it is hard to take any meaningful action.

This also ignores the matter that they have a wide-ranging medical crises still underway in Faey space, and they need the Medical Service to address that.

The other matter is Zaa was in charge of breaching the security of the facility where the records are likely being kept. She's a bit preoccupied at present.

The ongoing crises gives the Medical Service another excuse for keeping things on lockdown on their end. Cabin fever has to be setting in for those guys at this point, I'd think. Basicaly the Kimdori are busy dealing with the mayhem the retrovirus unleashed, and while they likely have people watching for activity there, active operations for getting in are on hold for the time being.

And even if they did get the information they want/need, they're not likely to move on it just yet as the Medical Service is performing a vital role in things right now, until that situation stabilizes, they're getting a pass.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by mjkj » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:04 am

kyli wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 6:44 pm
mjkj wrote:
Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:40 pm
So, I was just wondering about that part of the story:
as Jason's musings, Fel wrote:The other, lesser-known aspect of a Generation was being used by the KMS as a security feature as well, and that was radiation resistance. They had plans to install radiation emitters on every KMS ship that would make the ship hazardous to non-Generations. The ships would have an internal low intensity radiation field that was just enough to cause radiation sickness in invaders after prolonged exposure, but not strong enough to irradiate the Generation’s belongings, thus making him or her a hazard to non-Generations off the ship.
How would that help if all races in the sector/milky way are about to become generations...??? ok, for the next year or two it might help but not so much after that... :?
You forget,one of the biggest threats right now is non-generation races beginning a war of genocide against the Generations. And depending on which route they take, it might be a lot longer then 2 years before everyone is a Generation. The Karinnes are also scouting the surrounding galaxies and the greater universe. Always good to have an extra security feature against non radiation resistant species as that's what most species out there are.
Ah, thanks, makes more sense now :)

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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by NSC » Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:25 pm

They don't have proof that the medical service was behind it. Until then, it is hard to take any meaningful action.

This also ignores the matter that they have a wide-ranging medical crises still underway in Faey space, and they need the Medical Service to address that.

The other matter is Zaa was in charge of breaching the security of the facility where the records are likely being kept. She's a bit preoccupied at present.

The ongoing crises gives the Medical Service another excuse for keeping things on lockdown on their end. Cabin fever has to be setting in for those guys at this point, I'd think. Basicaly the Kimdori are busy dealing with the mayhem the retrovirus unleashed, and while they likely have people watching for activity there, active operations for getting in are on hold for the time being.

And even if they did get the information they want/need, they're not likely to move on it just yet as the Medical Service is performing a vital role in things right now, until that situation stabilizes, they're getting a pass.

This is all the more reason I'd expect Jason to be working triple overtime to get to the bottom of it. If I recall the story line correct when this all started, it hinted that the goal was to only affect the Faey. The ongoing plot where it has affected multiple species, and now they're envisioning it affecting every species, shows either a lack of control or a far deeper reaching scheme. SOMEONE has to be behind it all, and I'd expect Jason to be gunning for that person at all costs.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by kyli » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:07 pm

Jason is probably already going triple overtime on the situation. It's a matter of priorities and the FMS is not at the top of that list. All Jason can really do is wait on the Kimdori anyway and they will have people working on it. And the FMS probably just didn't realize just how quickly the virus can adapt and mutate. They also might not have considered that it could at all effect other races, even Terrans, duo to unconscious bias.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold, and revenge is sweet, so for all intents and purposes, revenge is ice cream."

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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:47 pm

NSC wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 1:25 pm
This is all the more reason I'd expect Jason to be working triple overtime to get to the bottom of it. If I recall the story line correct when this all started, it hinted that the goal was to only affect the Faey. The ongoing plot where it has affected multiple species, and now they're envisioning it affecting every species, shows either a lack of control or a far deeper reaching scheme. SOMEONE has to be behind it all, and I'd expect Jason to be gunning for that person at all costs.
A few issues:
1) The Kimdori are working on finding the answer. They are the best ones to be working on it, Jason trying to (further) involve his own people in it just makes things harder for the Kimdori and himself as well. It would also cause needless friction with Zaa and the Kimdori.
2) The virus has already been released, confirming the source does nothing in helping them deal with the consequences of it having been released. As such, dealing with the consequences takes priority at this time.
3) The initial "Karis" mutation appears to have been a legitimate accident in the form of "unintended outcomes" when the engineered "Faey retrovirus" encountered Jason and the special retrovirus he has due to the synaptic pathway issue that is unique to Terran Generations. The only ones who even know about that specific retrovirus are the CBIMS(assuming Cybi shared that information with the rest) and the Kimdori, not even Jason or Songa know about it.
4) The subsequent mutation that brought in the Urumi likely cycles back to "unintended interactions" and the Kimdori viral elements influencing things. "Too many" Urumi on a planet with "too many" Faey causing a LOT of the virus to be around, eventually leading to the virus finding a way to infect an Urumi. I figure it's a matter of time before the other races of the Faey Imperium get infected, and Terra starts seeing it jump over to non-Faey/Non-human species... Assuming Dahnai doesn't short-circuit the process in the Imperium by offering to deliberately infect her non-Faey citizens with the Karis strain. (Under more controlled circumstances--more later)

I thought the non-Karis version had mutated to impact others beyond the Urumi, but a quick search of the relevant chapters indicates just the Urumi so far. The Pai and Muri were hit with the Karis strain.

I'm still disappointed nobody has pointed at using the Benga Superships as a controlled environment for intentionally infecting people. ;)

Getting back to Dahnai possibly "piloting" the controlled/intentional infection of people with the Karis strain. THAT would likely be an event which would immediately cause friction with the Medical Service. If she does go that route, any Medical Service personnel involved would likely be screened by the Kimdori first(which will be a new kind of awkward as the newly minted Generations can sense the joining), and attached to the Karinne Medical services for the duration of the endeavor. The Medical Service will not be given any data relevant to the Karis strain.

But more likely, IMO as I think about it, if any such "pilot program" is done regarding deliberate infections, and in particular the use of Super Ships to control it. I'd suspect it will actually be House Karinne running the project, and it won't be Empire specific in keeping with Karinne neutrality. The first participants would likely be a mix of the remaining Imperium races not impacted by the currently known Imperium strains(except the Pari), the Grimja and Sha’i-ree. Others would likely follow after the larger summit meeting occurs, something I just noticed Fel hasn't given us information on in regards to when it is being scheduled. Jason should know by Chapter 11, but nobody shared it with us.
kyli wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:07 pm
Jason is probably already going triple overtime on the situation. It's a matter of priorities and the FMS is not at the top of that list. All Jason can really do is wait on the Kimdori anyway and they will have people working on it. And the FMS probably just didn't realize just how quickly the virus can adapt and mutate. They also might not have considered that it could at all effect other races, even Terrans, duo to unconscious bias.
Agreed on the unconscious bias regarding the Terrans. It might go a bit further than that given the situation with Kevin Ball and whatever they had been attempting with him during the Subjugation. While the reason it did impact the humans is a "duh" thing for us as we know the Faey are an engineered variant of humans. They only know that Humans closely resemble them genetically, closely enough to be able to interbreed, but nothing more on the how/why behind that resemblance.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by kyli » Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:50 pm

I'd completely forgotten about the other Imperium races. I don't think they've really been mentioned at all. I expect that the same thing that happened between the Faey and Urumi is likely to happen very soon with the rest of the Imperium races as well. They live surrounded by infected faey and it only takes one virus mutating.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold, and revenge is sweet, so for all intents and purposes, revenge is ice cream."

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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:10 am

kyli wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:50 pm
I'd completely forgotten about the other Imperium races. I don't think they've really been mentioned at all. I expect that the same thing that happened between the Faey and Urumi is likely to happen very soon with the rest of the Imperium races as well. They live surrounded by infected faey and it only takes one virus mutating.
Pretty much, my money would be on IF they did some kind of pilot program for those races, the Imperial virus will mutate to start transitioning them at about the same time the first candidates arrive to participate in the trial run. Wouldn't invalidate the trial though, IMO. The faster they can get people through the transition, the less risk there is of future (more dangerous) mutations happening. If anything, that particular mutation just means the Medical Service can setup their own operations to speed the process along using the new strain--no need for them to ever touch the hyper-mutating Karis strain.

And if they're using a ship to do the transitions in, they have potential ability to "Reset"(sterilize) the ship before the next group comes along, so they can further reduce the risk of new mutations appearing. It may not entirely eliminate it, but it does mean each group has the same "start point" rather than Group B having a start point at the tail end of Group A's run, meaning it's already had 40 days to start mutating in the interim. Much safer to have it back on the "day 1" version instead. Fewer compounding errors(mutations) to potentially address. At least until it encounters the one guy with a rare genetic marker/illness that sends everything sideways.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by NSC » Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:57 pm

Now that numerous empires are becoming generations, and it's a foregone conclusion that eventually the whole galaxy will be changed, what's keeping other empires from researching and developing biogenics?

I'm not talking about reverse engineering Karinne tech (that's based on thousand year old advances and research if I recall correctly).

I'm thinking that others know WHAT can be accomplished, and now they have half of the equation because they've been changed.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:05 am

NSC wrote:
Thu Jan 30, 2020 7:57 pm
Now that numerous empires are becoming generations, and it's a foregone conclusion that eventually the whole galaxy will be changed, what's keeping other empires from researching and developing biogenics?

I'm not talking about reverse engineering Karinne tech (that's based on thousand year old advances and research if I recall correctly).

I'm thinking that others know WHAT can be accomplished, and now they have half of the equation because they've been changed.
They might be able to develop a variant, but they will not be able to duplicate Karinne biogenics.

Karrine biogenics are based off of a biological crystal native to Kimdori Prime which they knew the Kimdori could interact with.

The Generations are based on genetic engineering which made use of Kimdori DNA to allow them to interface with the crystal.

So it is one of those "You cannot get there from here" situations, the material they need to create biogenic systems can only be found "in the wild" on Kimdori Prime, and otherwise requires getting their hands on a biogenic crystal.

It also requires not getting caught by either the Karinnes or the Kimdori while still in development. Evading the Kimdori may be easier for the Generations thanks to the "Kimdori sense" and their inability to use telepathy/commune. But as has been recently disclosed to Jason, the Kimdori have a workaround for that in process now as well, at least in regards to commune. Give the Kimdori a chance to get their hands on the Resonance technology that one Galaxy has, and they'll likely close the telepathy gap as well.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by Wolfee » Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:09 am

Not a ID wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:05 am
It also requires not getting caught by either the Karinnes or the Kimdori while still in development. Evading the Kimdori may be easier for the Generations thanks to the "Kimdori sense" and their inability to use telepathy/commune. But as has been recently disclosed to Jason, the Kimdori have a workaround for that in process now as well, at least in regards to commune. Give the Kimdori a chance to get their hands on the Resonance technology that one Galaxy has, and they'll likely close the telepathy gap as well.
I think you have missed the point about telepathic resonance technology - the Karinnes already have it. Telepathic Resonance technology is just that other galaxy's name for Biogentic technologies.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:20 am

Wolfee wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:09 am
Not a ID wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:05 am
It also requires not getting caught by either the Karinnes or the Kimdori while still in development. Evading the Kimdori may be easier for the Generations thanks to the "Kimdori sense" and their inability to use telepathy/commune. But as has been recently disclosed to Jason, the Kimdori have a workaround for that in process now as well, at least in regards to commune. Give the Kimdori a chance to get their hands on the Resonance technology that one Galaxy has, and they'll likely close the telepathy gap as well.
I think you have missed the point about telepathic resonance technology - the Karinnes already have it. Telepathic Resonance technology is just that other galaxy's name for Biogentic technologies.
Possible, we'll find out when/if the Karinnes or Kimdori learn more about it.

I'm still leaning strongly towards it being a "simple" telepathic interface like the Karinnes initially sought to create. So it won't have the "extra features" of the biogenic systems. More specifically, it won't amplify/boost telepathic/telekenetic abilities in the same manner, if at all. We already know that other (powerful/skilled) telepaths can hear commune, even if they cannot use it themselves. As such, the resonant tech, or its user, being able to detect a biogenic broadcast wouldn't be surprising, as the real surprise was simply the matter of their having their own telepathic interface tech.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by kyli » Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:39 am

Wolfee wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:09 am
Not a ID wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:05 am
It also requires not getting caught by either the Karinnes or the Kimdori while still in development. Evading the Kimdori may be easier for the Generations thanks to the "Kimdori sense" and their inability to use telepathy/commune. But as has been recently disclosed to Jason, the Kimdori have a workaround for that in process now as well, at least in regards to commune. Give the Kimdori a chance to get their hands on the Resonance technology that one Galaxy has, and they'll likely close the telepathy gap as well.
I think you have missed the point about telepathic resonance technology - the Karinnes already have it. Telepathic Resonance technology is just that other galaxy's name for Biogentic technologies.
Somehow I doubt Telepathic Resonance Technology is on the same level as Biogenics. It will either be far more powerful or less powerful. Most likely, I figure it will be unable or at least substantially less powerful at amplifying abilities, but much better at communication, both in bandwidth and distance. That's just my theory on it.
"Revenge is a dish best served cold, and revenge is sweet, so for all intents and purposes, revenge is ice cream."

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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by Not a ID » Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:04 am

kyli wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 11:39 am
Wolfee wrote:
Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:09 am
I think you have missed the point about telepathic resonance technology - the Karinnes already have it. Telepathic Resonance technology is just that other galaxy's name for Biogentic technologies.
Somehow I doubt Telepathic Resonance Technology is on the same level as Biogenics. It will either be far more powerful or less powerful. Most likely, I figure it will be unable or at least substantially less powerful at amplifying abilities, but much better at communication, both in bandwidth and distance. That's just my theory on it.
Agree, whatever it actually does, how it does it is very likely going to be different from Biogenics. That difference in turn is likely to give it a unique set of benefits and drawbacks relative to biogenics. The only things we do know is it utilizes telepathy, and presumably without need to alter the telepath to do so. That it seems to work across species in it's home galaxy suggests it works with "baseline" telepathy, although I guess it's possible they had their own round of retroviral outbreaks in the past, deliberate or not.

That said, based on the comments in Chapter 11, it seems unlikely that avenue will be pursued or investigated further in this book except maybe as a tease for the next one. As it was on the periphery of where the KES could reach shortly before the outbreak happened. With their pulling the KES back to Karis, it'll be months before they get back out to that corner of the universe. Once they decide to return to exploration, which doesn't look likely to happen anytime in the next few months.

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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by kyli » Mon Feb 03, 2020 6:26 am

And Revolution is likely only a few chapters from conclusion. At least, looking at its length, it will be approaching the length of the past few arcs in another couple chapters. So someone will do something stupid, the Karinnes will smash, and everyone will get smart, end of Revolution. :lol:
"Revenge is a dish best served cold, and revenge is sweet, so for all intents and purposes, revenge is ice cream."

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Re: Revolution Chapter 11 (Spoilers)

Post by imthejman85 » Thu Feb 06, 2020 12:34 am

I dunno about anyone else but I REEEEEALLY wanna see Jason and Co bitchslap the Faey Medical Service. They're long past due for one given the shit they pulled but I dunno if Fel will get around to it until maybe the last chapter in Revolution.

BTW, how many books has Fel said were left in the Subjugation series? Anyone remember?
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. -George Orwell

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