Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

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GotToGo
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Re: Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by GotToGo » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:20 pm

SYED wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:18 am
I just had an awesome idea. Those quantum entangled computers link the ships to some sort of central command for the navy. Can they use that connection to target a free form wormhole using the portal station? That has to be a key location, so if shudderingly destroyed, it would affect their logistics deeply. To target the portal, you need a real time connection, which is usually done by the biogenic systems, but why not the QE systems.
Syed, it won't work because they use other forms of comminucations too, that do work good well within their own galaxy . QE makes a big difference between different galaxies and they couldn't com back home. But they could still communicate between their ships within the same galaxy, just at slower speed without QE.

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Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by SYED » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:10 pm

The plan seems to be using the loss of the oracles and the speedy defeat of the invasion fleet, to force the benga to agree on a treaty. The thing is I don't see the benga giving up, but I also don't see many viable options. Sure they could just send another fleet, but with out the advantage of the oracles, they would be far more vulnerable. They some how need to learn about he confed advantage, and devise ways around them.
.S.A.M.K.M

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Re: Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by SoronelHaetir » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:54 pm

Redundancy costs, and we've seen just how tight-fisted the Benga are. They have backup QE on the super-ships but I would actually be surprised if any ship built after QE was developed retains the older communications equipment. (The older ships will have it simply because the Benga also don't throw stuff away if they don't have to).

GotToGo
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Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by GotToGo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:21 pm

SYED wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:10 pm
The plan seems to be using the loss of the oracles and the speedy defeat of the invasion fleet, to force the benga to agree on a treaty. The thing is I don't see the benga giving up, but I also don't see many viable options. Sure they could just send another fleet, but with out the advantage of the oracles, they would be far more vulnerable. They some how need to learn about he confed advantage, and devise ways around them.
I agree with you, but it has not been made clear if the Benga got off with the some of Dreamers working in the Benga city, just that all the settlement hid from them. Also, their are those Dreamers within some of the Benga's command ships. Jason had stated he was determined to free them all (negotiation?). We are early in this book, so I guess Tefler is withholding info from us, imagine that - LOL.

Don't forget the title of this Book - 'RETRIBUTION' - defined as: punishment inflicted on someone as vengeance for a wrong or criminal act:
"employees asked not to be named, saying they feared retribution" · [more]
synonyms: punishment · penalty · one's just deserts · revenge · reprisal · requital · retaliation · vengeance · an eye for an eye (and a tooth for a tooth) · tit for tat · lex talionis. We have not seen anything like that - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - YET!

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Re: Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by GotToGo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:32 pm

Also, of the opinion that the Benga will not negotiate in good faith, without the Corporations and their Leadership on the "Home World" is in fear of losing control or being destroyed completely.
















als

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Re: Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by Rakshasa claw » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:01 am

A treaty obviously won't stop the Benga from taking what they want. They are unscrupulous corporate types that will find a way to ensure that any treaty allows them enough wiggle room to justify doing what they want. But without the Oracles they will hesitate to start a war.

As for the ones remaining on the Syndicate ships.... umm Kimdori, anyone? They wouldn't have been able to steal the entire population away that way, but stealing one from a ship regardless of how many different ships still have one? Totally in the Kimdori's bailiwick.

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Re: Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by MartinK » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:24 am

Rakshasa claw wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:01 am
A treaty obviously won't stop the Benga from taking what they want. They are unscrupulous corporate types that will find a way to ensure that any treaty allows them enough wiggle room to justify doing what they want. But without the Oracles they will hesitate to start a war.
Uh... treaties might restrict big entities like governments or corporations but there are always criminals or criminal organizations around that like to take advantage of situations. I doubt any pirates can muster the resources or will to travel to other galaxies but I can see that the Benga would think that some sort of contact between their galaxy and the milky way galaxy is essential. And once that is part of the peace agreement, they'll both go into a cold war, sending hordes of spies to get their hands on technology and organized crime who just happened to find their way to the milky way galaxy and is hunting for examples of unknown technology.

The Benga leadership doesn't need to forcefully take what they want, they certainly won't do so if the costs are too high. But as long as there is contact, the greed and ruthlessness of others will eventually see to it that the technology and intelligence will find its way into Benga society.

As a side question: If some smaller entities of the Benga galaxy are sending small groups of a few ships over to the milky way without telling anyone, how will the milky way galaxy natives learn about it before they arrive? Or will they only learn of it when they encounter a world with a society that mysteriously happens to know a lot about giant humanoids with a penchant for war? It doesn't have to be a race that is already known to the forces of the milky way galaxy so identifying them at a glance might not be possible.
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Re: Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by SYED » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:31 am

Using normal hyperspace jump tech, there is a limited avenue of travel between the Galaxy. So it is possible to monitor if a ship is attempting to cross the void. I think that the newly created hybrid engine FTL, would be impossible to watch for as ship approaches could be any thing due to sheer speed.

The only way to trust the benga won't try to invade if they can't. I am thinking of a series of strikes designed to cripple the benga just enough to allow the consortium to be a threat to them once more.
.S.A.M.K.M

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Re: Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by arargh » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:23 am

Grabbing all the dreamers would pretty much do that.

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Re: Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by Rakshasa claw » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:15 pm

MartinK wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:24 am
Rakshasa claw wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:01 am
A treaty obviously won't stop the Benga from taking what they want. They are unscrupulous corporate types that will find a way to ensure that any treaty allows them enough wiggle room to justify doing what they want. But without the Oracles they will hesitate to start a war.
Uh... treaties might restrict big entities like governments or corporations but there are always criminals or criminal organizations around that like to take advantage of situations. I doubt any pirates can muster the resources or will to travel to other galaxies but I can see that the Benga would think that some sort of contact between their galaxy and the milky way galaxy is essential. And once that is part of the peace agreement, they'll both go into a cold war, sending hordes of spies to get their hands on technology and organized crime who just happened to find their way to the milky way galaxy and is hunting for examples of unknown technology.

The Benga leadership doesn't need to forcefully take what they want, they certainly won't do so if the costs are too high. But as long as there is contact, the greed and ruthlessness of others will eventually see to it that the technology and intelligence will find its way into Benga society.

As a side question: If some smaller entities of the Benga galaxy are sending small groups of a few ships over to the milky way without telling anyone, how will the milky way galaxy natives learn about it before they arrive? Or will they only learn of it when they encounter a world with a society that mysteriously happens to know a lot about giant humanoids with a penchant for war? It doesn't have to be a race that is already known to the forces of the milky way galaxy so identifying them at a glance might not be possible.
Are you agreeing with me, or trying to disagree? Because nothing you wrote seems to be a disagreement with my statement that the Benga will find a way around any treaty.

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Re: Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by MartinK » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:17 pm

Rakshasa claw wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:15 pm
Are you agreeing with me, or trying to disagree? Because nothing you wrote seems to be a disagreement with my statement that the Benga will find a way around any treaty.
Ah.. nope, seems we are in agreement. Isn't that wonderful? ;-)
What does a signature tell us about a person that has a signature significantly longer than the text he posted in his last post?

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Re: Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by Rakshasa claw » Wed Mar 07, 2018 4:52 pm

MartinK wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:17 pm
Rakshasa claw wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:15 pm
Are you agreeing with me, or trying to disagree? Because nothing you wrote seems to be a disagreement with my statement that the Benga will find a way around any treaty.
Ah.. nope, seems we are in agreement. Isn't that wonderful? ;-)
yeah, was just a little confused. But's this is better. 8)

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Re: Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by GotToGo » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:02 pm

MartinK wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:17 pm
Rakshasa claw wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:15 pm
Are you agreeing with me, or trying to disagree? Because nothing you wrote seems to be a disagreement with my statement that the Benga will find a way around any treaty.
Ah.. nope, seems we are in agreement. Isn't that wonderful? ;-)

You two do know that 98% of the tech in question is fully controled by two races, the Karinnes and the Kimdori? The Kimdori have controlled their secrets almost forever and the Karinnes, with Kimdori's help, do the same. Hell, they are even cousins! Also, the Kimdori are on the Benga home world and spread thru out their Gov't, with their ears everywhere. Furthermore, only very few know how to engineering, manufacturing, and installation of the tech in both them.

What makes you believe that any info would be released, transmitted be the two galaxies, and have the time to build it, installed through their fleets before the Kimdori and/or the Karinnes stop it and retaliate? And just which of their secrets are you thinking would make a profound difference.

So, I guess I have to disagree. :shock:

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Re: Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by Rakshasa claw » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:55 pm

GotToGo wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:02 pm
MartinK wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:17 pm
Rakshasa claw wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:15 pm
Are you agreeing with me, or trying to disagree? Because nothing you wrote seems to be a disagreement with my statement that the Benga will find a way around any treaty.
Ah.. nope, seems we are in agreement. Isn't that wonderful? ;-)

You two do know that 98% of the tech in question is fully controled by two races, the Karinnes and the Kimdori? The Kimdori have controlled their secrets almost forever and the Karinnes, with Kimdori's help, do the same. Hell, they are even cousins! Also, the Kimdori are on the Benga home world and spread thru out their Gov't, with their ears everywhere. Furthermore, only very few know how to engineering, manufacturing, and installation of the tech in both them.

What makes you believe that any info would be released, transmitted be the two galaxies, and have the time to build it, installed through their fleets before the Kimdori and/or the Karinnes stop it and retaliate? And just which of their secrets are you thinking would make a profound difference.

So, I guess I have to disagree. :shock:
?? We weren't discussing technology. We were discussing the fact that you can't trust the Syndicate. Even if you had a treaty signed by them, that literally said, "We will never leave these XX systems, never attack your planets, fleets, or citizens.. Ever." They still would find a way to violate it and attack once they felt they could gain an advantage from it.

As to your point, no the Benga aren't likely to succeed at stealing tech via espionage. Obviously, even the Faey, and other species in the Milky Way (distance advantage vs Benga) haven't been able to do it. That doesn't mean they won't come up with a sneaky twisty plan that they believe will work. Hence the no trust.

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Re: Re: Retribution (chapter 6) - spoilers!

Post by GBLW » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:48 am

Well folks, since the title of this book of the series is Retribution and since the Benga are known to be untrustworthy (as well as guilty of fighting and squabbling within their own ranks) I would suggest that the ultimate retribution would be to induce them go to war with each other, a war which was violent enough to destroy themselves.
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