Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

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Fel
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Fel »

belgarion213 wrote: While its not really been hinted, I've always thought that one of the possible end games for the Subjugation universe would be eventually somebody (probably Jason) would eventually well...throw of his physical body and become a Psychic akin to the Old Ones like the Vorlon's from Babylon 5, or possibly the Ancients from Star Gate (except hopefully not as arrogant or stupid). There's the fifth possibility that the giants basically 'ascended' or something akin to that.

Of course that's probably not going to happen but its something I've been thinking about for a while, and only increased when Jason built his body double robot, having me think that something might happen to his 'normal' body and Jason either becomes a psychic mind alone...or bascially become something akin to Cybi or Rook, a creature that is 'inhabiting' a biogenic crystal.
Actually, something similar to this does ultimately happen, and points to you for working it out.

By the very end of the series, [this part edited to appease Martin. ;)]
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by MartinK »

belgarion213 wrote: the Ancients from Star Gate (except hopefully not as arrogant or stupid).
While they weren't exactly the good guys and often were given as a reason why everything the SG Teams did was so complicated and difficult when the Ancients could have just snipped their fingers and puff, gone would be the problems... they weren't really all that arrogant or stupid. That whole non-interference rule was essentially the same as the rule in Star Trek not to interfere in pre-warp civilizations. Although it usually just got their captains in trouble whenever circumstances had them braking that rule. Same thing with the Ancients - if you are ascended, do not interfere with the pre-ascension sentients.

And that they did not interfere even when the ascended guys of another universe tried to get them all killed either took tremendous conviction... or they had a way to see how it would most likely turn out and knew they didn't need to do anything. Saying they were just plain stupid is a bit... well, it might be true, sure... but it made the story better for it, didn't it? ;-)

Damn, i miss Stargate!
Fel wrote:By the very end of the series, Jason and [...]
Always good to see that our heroes don't just die of old age at the end of a series - or sometime thereafter by having lived a very boring (i.e. no written story to read about it) time.

And pssst, but while this thread has the words "spoilers" in it, it might be a good idea to not spoil the very end like that. Quick! Edit it, Fel... pretty please? :-)

Now I wonder, how do I get my brain to forget the last 10 minutes. And no, getting roaring drunk is not an option.
Last edited by MartinK on Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Moodada »

Bless you for taking the big spoiler bullet tho.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Wolfee »

Damn, I didn't get to read that before Fel edited it. Oh well, I guess spending time with the Parri and learning will become very important, I imagine that will be the beginning of ascension.


Totally agree miss stargate!!!
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by kyli »

I missed it too before it got edited. :( It’s a bit too early for me to speculate much about the tidbits Fel dropped here until we know more, except to say that the Parri are in this up the their necks!!........ Wait, really crazy theory, but maybe the Oye trees aren’t themselves intelligent as we’ve believed. Instead the Ijara as ascended beings are using the Oye trees to communicate psychically with the Shaman and that the path of a Shaman leads to ascension.

Gosh, I miss Stargate too.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by SYED »

I think it was said that the faey progenitors were transplanted from New Zealand, when exactly was this. Those ancient aliens might have seeded the faey telepathic gene around that time. The faey are unique that their whole species has telepathy, even the benga only have around 50% capable, there is that race that is 100 % telekinetic but for the rest, mental gifts are in the minority of the species.

If there are more faey transplanted, I wonder if some where altered to make some mental gifts prevalent, just like the dreamers have more oracles. There could be a set of faey with more numerous and powerful empathy or even telekinesis. We know there are more gifts out there, specialized or augemented versions of the other talents. They might have been given versions of these.

A shaman can remove wood from his tree with out harming it, imagine if Jason could learn to add a biogenic crystal to his tree. Creating a link between the two gifts.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Wolfee »

Maybe an Oyi tree is the shamans form of a biogenic computer, communication device, meditation training aid and food source all in one.

I wonder if the Parri shamans are able to live without a physical form already? Or are partially the way through the process?

Is this how the energy beings of the syndicate came about?
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by SYED »

I don't know why but I kinda hope we see some space Bourne life forms, like living ships or space whales.

I doubt the consortium energy beings are evolved higher level beings, I kinda see them as a kind of failed experiment. What exactly did the shaman do to the one they captured? I wonder if the Parri might be interested in traveling beyond their Galaxy, they cloud see great distances, they can now visit what they seen.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Wolfee »

Fel wrote:
belgarion213 wrote: While its not really been hinted, I've always thought that one of the possible end games for the Subjugation universe would be eventually somebody (probably Jason) would eventually well...throw of his physical body and become a Psychic akin to the Old Ones like the Vorlon's from Babylon 5, or possibly the Ancients from Star Gate (except hopefully not as arrogant or stupid). There's the fifth possibility that the giants basically 'ascended' or something akin to that.

Of course that's probably not going to happen but its something I've been thinking about for a while, and only increased when Jason built his body double robot, having me think that something might happen to his 'normal' body and Jason either becomes a psychic mind alone...or bascially become something akin to Cybi or Rook, a creature that is 'inhabiting' a biogenic crystal.
Actually, something similar to this does ultimately happen, and points to you for working it out.

By the very end of the series, [this part edited to appease Martin. ;)]
Does this mean that Jason will be directing whoever the current Duke or Duchess of house Karinne from the ascended plane? That house Karinne will become the intergalactic police, directed by a by those who have followed Jason to a higher plane of existence? With no secret plans safe from those who have ascended, its going to be hard to make war... there will be a outbreak of peace because everyone will be ready to defend against the attacker by the time the attacker is ready to move.

Or will house Karinne simply move entire star systems and all there contents to the ascended plane, moving everyone and everything to another dimension of reality would be a very effective form a defense to protect the generations, Karinne tech and the house at large.
Last edited by Wolfee on Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by kyli »

I think we're fall a bit into the trap of comparing the ascention from the Stargate show too much with what Fel called "something similar". Authors usually try and come up with some more original ideas and Fel might not even call it ascention, but instead use some other term. That's just the term we who watched SG are familiar with.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by SYED »

I can see when Rann becomes old enough, to run the house, Jason will abdicate and use his skills to explore and watch over the telepaths, shamans and other gifted races accross all the stars. Not really directly interfering, subtly using his influence to help them grow and develop.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Belgarion213 »

As SYED mentioned currently I think the plan was for Jason to get Rann and his wife ready and then will abdicate to go tinker with tech, explore the galaxy etc. I'm sure he will still have influence but there are a lot of things Jason wants to do but can't because he has to run the House and play nanny to the Galaxy at the moment.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by MartinK »

Wolfee wrote:Does this mean that Jason will be directing whoever the current Duke or Duchess of house Karinne from the ascended plane? That house Karinne will become the intergalactic police, directed by a by those who have followed Jason to a higher plane of existence? With no secret plans safe from those who have ascended, its going to be hard to make war... there will be a outbreak of peace because everyone will be ready to defend against the attacker by the time the attacker is ready to move.

Or will house Karinne simply move entire star systems and all there contents to the ascended plane, moving everyone and everything to another dimension of reality would be a very effective form a defense to protect the generations, Karinne tech and the house at large.
Nah, any sort of ascended being/society has to have a non-interference pact. You can't 'play police' for a whole damn galaxy without everybody in that galaxy getting ideas about taking you out. An agressive species like the faey will know that they will end up on opposite sides at one point in the future and since it will happen anyway, better to plan for it. Thats just common sense. And since they aren't alone, far from it actually since evolution that results in a society of billions of sentients had to have won lots of competitions with other lifeforms on their own world and therefore few species are actually not agressive by nature.

Others may just want to get their hands on your technology, can't life with some foreigner able to destroy their worlds without being able to protect their people or... heck, a race that sees a completely peaceful environment as the best way to destroy their society. I'm thinking about the predictions in some science fiction stories that any society that develops perfect robotics and uses them for all work ends up with isolated people who just watch TV and play online games.. well, virtual reality perhaps or some such thing.. their whole life and as a society they degenerate until their stuff starts breaking down and nobody knows how to repair it anymore.

At most, I would expect the Karinnes to grab up any interesting sentients as Jason is already doing and taking them into the House.Oh, and of course working towards a peace secured by making war and fighting on such a giant scale too costly. The best way to reach your goals is to get as many other political parties to want to reach those same goals as well. Jasons ideas on that trading network created by gates and protected by warp inhibitors have done just that.

If playing police would be a good idea, the USA would be the most beloved nation worldwide. Since thats not the case... :-)
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by SYED »

I don't see Jason as the type to simply contemplate the universe and do nothing for centuries, he is a more active individual. I could see him exploring the cosmos, using other telepathic races as beacons in the darkness to locate life accross the stars. Imagine if he planted an Oye tree on every such work, to create a pseudo telepathic network linking these worlds together.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by MartinK »

SYED wrote:I don't see Jason as the type to simply contemplate the universe and do nothing for centuries, he is a more active individual. I could see him exploring the cosmos, using other telepathic races as beacons in the darkness to locate life accross the stars. Imagine if he planted an Oye tree on every such work, to create a pseudo telepathic network linking these worlds together.
Why would he need any sort of beacon? He seems to trip over sentient life essentially everywhere without even looking. Just fly in a random direction and you'll find life. Don't get too hang up on telepathy.

And Oye trees are those things that haven't been very cooperative in growing anywhere but there homeworld - and to the surprise of the faey Karis was the second world those things grew on. I'm sure the faey have tried every other reachable world, moon or asteroid without success.
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