Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

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SYED
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Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by SYED » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:50 pm

So the battle for the dreamers is coming soon. The benga will be forced to retreat, leaving around 1000 ships in system. Once the confederation jump in, I bet they will start indictoring to deny the enemy access to hyperspace.
Not only will the syndicate not be expecting an attack, but I doubt they will be immediately aware they need heavy plasma weaponry and anti matter missiles to be able to inflict damage. Or that the ships are highly immune to the rest of the weaponry. The news out of our galaxy would be restricted and slow to spread. In the time the benga would need to alter their battle plans, a lot of damage could be inflicted.
Look at what Jason did to the fleet at Oasis. Now he has had a long time to prepare and build. The priority for him would be to eliminate the super ships, as the rest of the fleet can deal with the lesser vessels. Due to their value, I could see only a few remaining in system.
Jason said the benga don't have the technology to save the moon, he never said that he doesn't have the tech. I think the plan is to some how protect it from the burning solar winds, at the same time as removing the remaining defence fleets. They know that the only ships that would remain would shelter behind the moon, so when the attack, they have the general location of the ships.

If Jason is a messiah to these people, then it would be easier to recruit them for operations against the benga. I can see the whole world applying to join house karrine. Also, they would be more willing to provide their services as oracles, finally able to take revenge on those that enslaved their people for centuries. Jason can't beat the syndicate in open warfare, but using legion tactics with information provided by the dreamers, they could strike deep in the heart of the corpArations. If all these people care about is money and power, then they will be loosing a lot. If they can start their campaign soon enough, it might convince a faction of the consortium to remain and fight. It might not be an alliance but make the benga vulnerable enough, the consortium is sure to take advantage anyway.
.S.A.M.K.M

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by GBLW » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:13 am

Yep, so we've been told that everything is all peachy keen and coming up roses ....

But

we

are

talking

about

Fel

here,

so

what

comes

next

and

when

does

the

other

shoe

fall?
K Pelle aka GBLW
My recent stories are available at: http://www.grynenbayritpublications.com/

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Tuga555 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 3:14 pm

I don't think it will be dreamer related, and i hope its external and not karine internal.
Should be before the attack.we shall see.

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Wolfee » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:35 pm

I personally am wondering when the 50 foot tall aliens show up. The ones that moved the Dreamers.

Either that or long term stable wormholes are going to attract some attention from somewhere.

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Fel » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:45 pm

Wolfee wrote:I personally am wondering when the 50 foot tall aliens show up. The ones that moved the Dreamers.

Either that or long term stable wormholes are going to attract some attention from somewhere.
The Ijara are gone. But, the legacy they've left behind is one that reaches every corner of the universe.

However, the fact that there's a war being waged between two different galaxies, and that the combatants are crossing in both directions, will be noticed.

The universe is a very big place. The Karinnes will find out, a couple of arcs down the line (Revelation and Benediction), that they're not the only ones capable of reaching every corner of it.

And in a strange sort of ironic way, the Benga should be very, very, very thankful for it.
Just another guy from the shallow end of the gene pool.

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by SYED » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:42 am

While Jason is sending the occasional ship to andromeda and creating wormholes to there, the syndicate and consortium are the ones sending while fleets, so easier to be detected by others. They are sure to attempt to create ways to match karrine intergalactic abilities, so lots of experiments and attempts.

If the kimdori are going to explore all these galaxies, surely they would draw the attention of other intergalactic travelers.

Is there a maximum range for wormholes and nexus bridges? So long as that can establish FTL comms at that range of sufficient bandwidth, it could be possible. Is there a range for biogenic systems? Telepathy is said to transcend time and space.

Say a generation becomes a true master of telekinesis according to their teachers, they can then share their experience via communion. It won't make them all automaticly masters of the art, but it would aid them greatly. Jason knows a technique to kill someone secretly via telekinesis. Imagine that combined with a fully developed telekinetic education.

The secret oracle conspiracy makes me wonder if my idea that they have other mental gifts present in the dreamers could be true. I still don't think they are telekinetic as that would be too noticeable, but empathy could be more easily hidden. To hide and preserve secrets, the oracles had to be able to use their gifts efficiently enough to counter the benga, I doubt they gave themselves nightmares. I wonder if Jack implanted dreamers could join their dreams/visions together, to gain more accurate and detailed information. It would be a way to avoid the need to induce nightmares.

That race with all those omens, I wonder what would happen if a true oracle reviewed them. They might actually be made viable and useful.
.S.A.M.K.M

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by kyli » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:38 pm

Fel wrote:
Wolfee wrote:I personally am wondering when the 50 foot tall aliens show up. The ones that moved the Dreamers.

Either that or long term stable wormholes are going to attract some attention from somewhere.
The Ijara are gone. But, the legacy they've left behind is one that reaches every corner of the universe.

However, the fact that there's a war being waged between two different galaxies, and that the combatants are crossing in both directions, will be noticed.

The universe is a very big place. The Karinnes will find out, a couple of arcs down the line (Revelation and Benediction), that they're not the only ones capable of reaching every corner of it.

And in a strange sort of ironic way, the Benga should be very, very, very thankful for it.
So, the Ijara are gone! But there are other intergalactic players out there. If a war between two galaxies that has lasted less than a decade is noticed by these intergalactic players, then a war between two galactic superpowers that has lasted for six millennia must have been noticed as well. Though there probably wasn’t as much importance given to that war since it hadn’t yet evolved to the intergalactic stage---until now. In any case, as I expected, I fear that it’s fairly obvious that the Syndicate supership with the one hundred kilometer hole through it could only have been taken out by one of these intergalactic players. Perhaps that ship stumbled across a scouting party and tried to engage them or something.

As for the Ijara, how could a race whose “legacy reaches to every corner of the universe” vanish just like that. I see four possibilities. One, they died out naturally. I find this particularly hard to believe, and bordering on impossible. I don’t see how an intergalactic race could just die out.

Two, they were wiped out by unnatural causes, like a war. That possibility is particularly scary since the Ijira, from what actions we know they took, didn’t seem like the type that would engage in a war for power against someone else unless they were forced too. And since the Ijara are gone, that would mean they lost the war and there enemies are still out there.

Third possibility, the Ijara are still out there but they somehow lost the technological capacity of intergalactic travel. I find this possibility difficult to believe.

Fourth possibility and my personal favourite, the Ijara are explorers like the Kimdori and they ran out of new territory to explore. So they left to explore the multiverse and we shall soon get another Tarrin short story about how Tarrin helps 50 foot tall beings in starships save a world or something. I love this theory, and I’m probably not the only one. :lol:

Ok, personally, I don’t think any of these are actually what happened. All of them seem a bit far-fetched and just don’t quite fit to me. I could poke a lot of huge holes in all four of these possibilities. So, Fel probably has a fifth possibility that makes everything make sense.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Tuga555 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:21 pm

Fel wrote:
Wolfee wrote:I personally am wondering when the 50 foot tall aliens show up. The ones that moved the Dreamers.

Either that or long term stable wormholes are going to attract some attention from somewhere.
The Ijara are gone. But, the legacy they've left behind is one that reaches every corner of the universe.

However, the fact that there's a war being waged between two different galaxies, and that the combatants are crossing in both directions, will be noticed.

The universe is a very big place. The Karinnes will find out, a couple of arcs down the line (Revelation and Benediction), that they're not the only ones capable of reaching every corner of it.

And in a strange sort of ironic way, the Benga should be very, very, very thankful for it.

Just some questions about this post Fell, since I lose some nuances in English: the Benga will be happy that the Karines reach every corner or that the other races do?, i'm confused.
On another topic, by "legacy they left behind" you mean things you "seeded" trough the previous arcs or something that will be in future arcs?
Thank you

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Wolfee » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:29 pm

Tuga555 wrote:Just some questions about this post Fell, since I lose some nuances in English: the Benga will be happy that the Karines reach every corner or that the other races do?, i'm confused.
On another topic, by "legacy they left behind" you mean things you "seeded" trough the previous arcs or something that will be in future arcs?
Thank you
I am thinking Fel is giving us a hint that lots of other races have been transplanted all over the universe.

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by SYED » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:22 am

I am wondering if they seeded the mental gifts accross the different worlds.
Also, biogenic crystals and systems can't have been the only experiment in psychic technology. Like how biogenic systems can detect each other, could it be adapted to detect these potential telepathic technologies out there? We know the shamans can detect those with gifts out there. So they and the trees could aid them.

If multiple races have been moved, then the Karrines might need to liberate some other worlds in andromeda.

There was that race which was wiped out by a member of the confederation, it might be cool if they were rediscovered.
.S.A.M.K.M

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Fel » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:07 pm

Wolfee wrote:
Tuga555 wrote:Just some questions about this post Fell, since I lose some nuances in English: the Benga will be happy that the Karines reach every corner or that the other races do?, i'm confused.
On another topic, by "legacy they left behind" you mean things you "seeded" trough the previous arcs or something that will be in future arcs?
Thank you
I am thinking Fel is giving us a hint that lots of other races have been transplanted all over the universe.
Not lots.

One.

The Faey.
Just another guy from the shallow end of the gene pool.

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Wolfee » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:22 pm

Fel wrote:
Wolfee wrote:
Tuga555 wrote:Just some questions about this post Fell, since I lose some nuances in English: the Benga will be happy that the Karines reach every corner or that the other races do?, i'm confused.
On another topic, by "legacy they left behind" you mean things you "seeded" trough the previous arcs or something that will be in future arcs?
Thank you
I am thinking Fel is giving us a hint that lots of other races have been transplanted all over the universe.
Not lots.

One.

The Faey.
Ahhh... I can imagine what the other Faey have been doing with their time away from Draconis.

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Belgarion213 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:06 am

So, the Ijara are gone! But there are other intergalactic players out there. If a war between two galaxies that has lasted less than a decade is noticed by these intergalactic players, then a war between two galactic superpowers that has lasted for six millennia must have been noticed as well. Though there probably wasn’t as much importance given to that war since it hadn’t yet evolved to the intergalactic stage---until now. In any case, as I expected, I fear that it’s fairly obvious that the Syndicate supership with the one hundred kilometer hole through it could only have been taken out by one of these intergalactic players. Perhaps that ship stumbled across a scouting party and tried to engage them or something.

As for the Ijara, how could a race whose “legacy reaches to every corner of the universe” vanish just like that. I see four possibilities. One, they died out naturally. I find this particularly hard to believe, and bordering on impossible. I don’t see how an intergalactic race could just die out.

Two, they were wiped out by unnatural causes, like a war. That possibility is particularly scary since the Ijira, from what actions we know they took, didn’t seem like the type that would engage in a war for power against someone else unless they were forced too. And since the Ijara are gone, that would mean they lost the war and there enemies are still out there.

Third possibility, the Ijara are still out there but they somehow lost the technological capacity of intergalactic travel. I find this possibility difficult to believe.

Fourth possibility and my personal favourite, the Ijara are explorers like the Kimdori and they ran out of new territory to explore. So they left to explore the multiverse and we shall soon get another Tarrin short story about how Tarrin helps 50 foot tall beings in starships save a world or something. I love this theory, and I’m probably not the only one. :lol:

Ok, personally, I don’t think any of these are actually what happened. All of them seem a bit far-fetched and just don’t quite fit to me. I could poke a lot of huge holes in all four of these possibilities. So, Fel probably has a fifth possibility that makes everything make sense.
While its not really been hinted, I've always thought that one of the possible end games for the Subjugation universe would be eventually somebody (probably Jason) would eventually well...throw of his physical body and become a Psychic akin to the Old Ones like the Vorlon's from Babylon 5, or possibly the Ancients from Star Gate (except hopefully not as arrogant or stupid). There's the fifth possibility that the giants basically 'ascended' or something akin to that.

Of course that's probably not going to happen but its something I've been thinking about for a while, and only increased when Jason built his body double robot, having me think that something might happen to his 'normal' body and Jason either becomes a psychic mind alone...or bascially become something akin to Cybi or Rook, a creature that is 'inhabiting' a biogenic crystal.

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Wolfee » Thu Nov 30, 2017 6:58 am

Belgarion213 wrote:While its not really been hinted, I've always thought that one of the possible end games for the Subjugation universe would be eventually somebody (probably Jason) would eventually well...throw of his physical body and become a Psychic akin to the Old Ones like the Vorlon's from Babylon 5, or possibly the Ancients from Star Gate (except hopefully not as arrogant or stupid). There's the fifth possibility that the giants basically 'ascended' or something akin to that.

Of course that's probably not going to happen but its something I've been thinking about for a while, and only increased when Jason built his body double robot, having me think that something might happen to his 'normal' body and Jason either becomes a psychic mind alone...or bascially become something akin to Cybi or Rook, a creature that is 'inhabiting' a biogenic crystal.
Interesting idea... I had wondered back in the 2nd book? If Cybi might fall for Jason if she ever got a physical body, from one of the comments after Jason had his ganglions repaired. But the scenario you describe would be in a way a form of torture. To be immortal and watch your family die of old age, to watch your children do the same, your wife and lovers... to see your grand children come and go. As time progressed and those you knew in your mortal life pass on to become more and more removed from humanity.

On a different topic I wonder if as the generations become more proficient in their abilities if it might be possible to send a message to the past. A Cybi to Cybi communion, a message to Kori Karrine - just a brief note or summation to let her know that house Karrine had survived and triumphed.

But after Fel's post about the Faey being transplanted all over the place I'm am now looking forward to the later books of the series!

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Post by Belgarion213 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:04 am

Interesting idea... I had wondered back in the 2nd book? If Cybi might fall for Jason if she ever got a physical body, from one of the comments after Jason had his ganglions repaired. But the scenario you describe would be in a way a form of torture. To be immortal and watch your family die of old age, to watch your children do the same, your wife and lovers... to see your grand children come and go. As time progressed and those you knew in your mortal life pass on to become more and more removed from humanity.

On a different topic I wonder if as the generations become more proficient in their abilities if it might be possible to send a message to the past. A Cybi to Cybi communion, a message to Kori Karrine - just a brief note or summation to let her know that house Karrine had survived and triumphed.

But after Fel's post about the Faey being transplanted all over the place I'm am now looking forward to the later books of the series!
You are right in that being the only immortal in your family would be torture...but that's exactly the situation that Cybi is in already. Besides, Jason won't be alone save for the CBIM's, there's the Kimdori who are going to live for thousands of years, their's the CBIM's themselves, other long lived races...

You are right though, that Jason would probably brood on it somewhat fierce...but I think it wouldn't destroy him.

A Time Travel message could be interesting, and it would certainly help Cybi to know over the long centuries that she will have a house to watch over in the future.

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