Conviction chapter 13

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All about the Subjugation, Insurrection, and Unification books.

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lapland
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by lapland »

And I think you just saw the names of the next books described inside your steps you think will happen. Who better then the Legion to issue a retribution. What better evidence of destabilization then a revolution. And then we can learn the truth of the seeding of the galaxy, and the history of the races, possibly even finding knowledge of the ancients if not the tech. Then of course is the Benediction.
Belgarion213
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by Belgarion213 »

There should be a last book, or at least the last chapter of Benediction entitled 'vacation' because after saving earth and then the galaxy and then ANOTHER galaxy...Jason desperately needs to go sit on his beach and relax. :)
geeksalad
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by geeksalad »

Ok so hear me out on this.
Stargates are extremely useful pieces of tech that allow for instant movement between two points, but they're basically huge anchored space bending machines. This whole thing with the one way wormhole reminded me how its all base on torsion.

Telekinesis is capable of space torsion, but your run of the mill powerful telepath(telekinect?) cannot do a wormhole.
What about a generation merged to a CBIM? They should have more computational power and raw power than a stargate.
Telepathy powers are limited by both sight and distance, a CBIM may bend one point of space, but it can't reach the other one.
What about two CBIMs linking? They can communicate, and each bend their own area. Having them match would make a stable wormhole.
CBIMs are not easier to move than stargates, this doesn't help.
What about COMA? Highly mobile and probably powerful enough when merged to link the wormhole back to a CBIM.
The CBIM would then take over and support the wormhole with the full might ok karis's power grid.

If this is feasible the implications are massive, a ship that can create a wormhole to karis on a whim. Move entire fleets ignoring distances, easily transport stargates back and forth, kidnapping entire enemy ships off their formations whilst in the safety of stealth mode! I know the existence of the drive kinda dwarfs this, but it would still be a hugely useful tool.

What do you guys think?
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kyli
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by kyli »

The problem would be, it would require a Generation to always be merged with the CBIM or CBMOM when opening a wormhole. Also any ship big enough for a CBMOM would be too big to fit a cloak on it and they couldn't hide a wormhole at close range from sensors anyway. The point is, while i think it might be possible, i don't think this offers any advantage that the stargates dont already provide. And building a stargate probably takes alot less time and effort then building a CBMOM. But i think a Generation with a tactical gesalt might be able to eventually learn how to open wormholes for themselves to go through as an last-ditch escape option, maybe.

And just for the record, I predicted micro-kinetics long before Fel confirmed it was possible. :) http://forums.sennadar.com/viewtopic.ph ... =15#p30563
Belgarion213 wrote: Benediction: I'm not sure what this would be about, probably a continuation of the previous and finding out what the giants were actually doing and a conclusion to the galactic wars either through the new government taking over from the Consortium/syndicate.
And while i was looking for that link above, I found another interesting tidbit. http://forums.sennadar.com/viewtopic.ph ... 264#p30461
"Revenge is a dish best served cold, and revenge is sweet, so for all intents and purposes, revenge is ice cream."
MartinK
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by MartinK »

Belgarion213 wrote:There should be a last book, or at least the last chapter of Benediction entitled 'vacation' because after saving earth and then the galaxy and then ANOTHER galaxy...Jason desperately needs to go sit on his beach and relax. :)
I'd rather think a title like 'benefits' instead of 'vacation' fits the book title theme much better, doesn't it?

On the other hand, if there is a book about Jason going on vacation, I really doubt his vacation runs through as planned without any crisis happening that recalls him back to the office right away. The chance is naturally much higher if we get to read about his vacation. Nah...

Still, Jason has given much of his tech to the Kimdori. They don't know how to stop working. I'm sure by the time the current conflict runs its course they have already placed agents in all neighboring galaxies and are busy sending more teams out to galaxies further out. No way are they letting another intergalactic war creep up on them and be a big, unpleasant surprise.

And naturally, there are some very strange things out there and undoubtedly some of them will follow them back home. That is... if Jason doesn't come up with the idea of settling a few worlds in other galaxies so he doesn't leave all his eggs within just one galaxy. A galaxy that has learned to value cooperation and in which most races are still jealous of Karinne tech and might just start thinking about how to acquire it, by force if necessary. A new galaxy that they can't reach, where no race has even seen him before, filled with new, unexplored stories waiting to be discovered sounds pretty attractive to me.
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imthejman85
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by imthejman85 »

I would think the last chapter of the last book would have Jason retiring and letting Rann take over as Grand Duke. Then he could actually relax for a bit. Sipping Oye juice on the beach with Jyslin while the rest of his family and friends surround him, kids splashing away in the water as Jason and company look on.
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. -George Orwell
Steve.K.Bates
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by Steve.K.Bates »

imthejman85 wrote:I would think the last chapter of the last book would have Jason retiring and letting Rann take over as Grand Duke.
The title could be "Abdication" :wink:
MartinK
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by MartinK »

imthejman85 wrote:I would think the last chapter of the last book would have Jason retiring and letting Rann take over as Grand Duke. Then he could actually relax for a bit. Sipping Oye juice on the beach with Jyslin while the rest of his family and friends surround him, kids splashing away in the water as Jason and company look on.
One thing I get to wonder about in most science fiction stories - with all that technology, all that progress in science, why are people still dying at the same age they do today? We know that aging is not exactly necessary for anything but evolution to take its course. There are animals that get to be several hundred years old. Trees get to be thousands of years old. There have been people born with defects that influence their bodies aging in several kinds of ways, although so far not in a 'grow up to be 20 years old and then stop aging forever' way.

So, most of the science fiction worlds should be able to either stop aging altogether or even in a limited way for a few hundred years, repeatedly treat the body to get back to 20 years, replace the body with a cloned one (naturally without an occupant in it) or a dozen other ways. Finding ways to life longer has been a motivation for people for thousands of years now, how many stories got told about the fountain of youth? How many men are spending money to get their hair to start growing again. You can't tell me that nobody would research in that direction in the future.

I think its because changing the aging process and how a nation handles it inevitably leads to major changes in the dynamics of a society and few authors want to bother with it when they already have a story in mind.

Back to Jason now, with the many examples of races and their different aging, I'd rather imagine that he would one day hand over everything to his heir, grab wife and ... a bunch of other people and jump into an exploration vessel, flying towards some randomly picked distant galaxy to never be seen from again in the years thereafter and becoming a legend that one day, when the fate of the House Karinne once again hangs in the balance, he will return to right whats wrong and kick ass to safe the day again. :-)
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Belgarion213
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by Belgarion213 »

Well the Faey obsession with 'natural' probably has a lot to do with keeping things like anti-aging drugs or regimes going on...but its a very valid point. As medicine improves, people begin to live longer and longer and eventually what's going to crap out first is not going to be the body...but the brain. Wiht Jason having worked out the beginnings of what I'm sure would allow a human to literally transfer their consciousness into a Bioroid, I'm wondering how that will work with the CBIM's not being the only 'immortal/ageless' members of the house.

Speaking of that Faey obsession with 'natural', I'm actually kind of suspicious of it and kind of, halfheartedly, wonder if it is actually a cultural thing or if it was implanted in them by the Giants. Sure culture trumps a lot of things but the Faey obsession with 'natural beauty' and 'natural birth'...seems suspicious...though maybe that's just me.

...speaking of Jason heading of to parts unknown I'm kind of thinking he might just park himself in the middle of intergalactic space and use the Flat Space Effect to do his work for him. Then he can just aim a telescope at the Milky Way and see the house evolve much faster than a 1:1 timescale.
MartinK
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by MartinK »

Belgarion213 wrote:people begin to live longer and longer and eventually what's going to crap out first is not going to be the body...but the brain.
The brain is part of the body and the known afflictions that come with age target the brain as well. I don't think there is a reason why the mind shouldn't stay fit and healthy if the body keeps being healthy no matter the age. Although I can see that watching friends and family dying before your eyes one after another might lead to emotional difficulties, depression and similar.
Wiht Jason having worked out the beginnings of what I'm sure would allow a human to literally transfer their consciousness into a Bioroid,
Ah, I'm one of those people who wouldn't agree to that. There are some technological solutions cropping up here and there in which the mind gets uploaded into something. So far, I have always felt that the process is essentially copying the biological brain and reconstructing it in a digital simulation, thus essentially creating another you. The original is still in the body and even if you decide to kill the body directly after a successful transfer, you will still end up with a copy. Of course, that copy will go on believing he is the real deal and to anyone else it makes no difference.. but I can't see that as a way to achieve immortality. Heck, I wouldn't even let myself get beamed up as they do in Star Trek. That is still a reconstructed copy to me.
Speaking of that Faey obsession with 'natural', I'm actually kind of suspicious of it and kind of, halfheartedly, wonder if it is actually a cultural thing or if it was implanted in them by the Giants. Sure culture trumps a lot of things but the Faey obsession with 'natural beauty' and 'natural birth'...seems suspicious...though maybe that's just me.
That does sound a bit suspicious, although I doubt some ancient race of giants would bother with fine-tuning one of a thousand species that way. I would rather suspect some researchers that found a way to gain immortality by science or a novel way to apply their gift. A handful of very unique Faey shaping the course of development of their people from the shadows and naturally they wouldn't want millions of immortals walking around and make life difficult for them so the obsession with being natural might be their way of throwing stones in a possible future gifted immortals way to... uh... ascension?
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by SYED »

I can see Jason finally finishing his education, if only to encourage all his children to attend for themselves.

I wonder if there is a away to enhance a body using telepathy and telekinesis.. Lots of stories about enhanced mental capabilities mentions body enhancements. One even mentioned DNA repair. Aging is simply the cells unable to replicate as well as before. If this is fixed, it would greatly slow down aging. No process is perfect, so aging will always be an issue. Generation DNA is already adaptable.
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Belgarion213
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by Belgarion213 »

The brain is part of the body and the known afflictions that come with age target the brain as well. I don't think there is a reason why the mind shouldn't stay fit and healthy if the body keeps being healthy no matter the age. Although I can see that watching friends and family dying before your eyes one after another might lead to emotional difficulties, depression and similar.[/qoute]

Its much easier to repair things like limbs, or genetic disorders than the brain itself but you raise a fair point. I was more thinking of things like 'the fog of ages' as people live longer and longer and have to remember lots more stuff...though with things like the Cyberjacks tha's less of an issue if you can just dump excess data onto a data storage or what not. However you raise a very good point there.


Ah, I'm one of those people who wouldn't agree to that. There are some technological solutions cropping up here and there in which the mind gets uploaded into something. So far, I have always felt that the process is essentially copying the biological brain and reconstructing it in a digital simulation, thus essentially creating another you. The original is still in the body and even if you decide to kill the body directly after a successful transfer, you will still end up with a copy. Of course, that copy will go on believing he is the real deal and to anyone else it makes no difference.. but I can't see that as a way to achieve immortality. Heck, I wouldn't even let myself get beamed up as they do in Star Trek. That is still a reconstructed copy to me.
A valid point, and I agree at least with Star Trek transporters. However even if YOU don't have immortality, somebody else WILL effectively have it. I can see a lot of people hesitating but a lot of people who are all for it. Its very much a philosophical question, because if you think the same way, you have the exact same memories...are you still 'you'? A lot of people are going to say yes, and a lot of people are going to say no. I don't really know the answer and am not really interested in having the debate but its probably going to happen SOMEWHERE in the confederation. Even if the Karines decide not to do it, somebody else IS simply because not everybody is hung up on morals as Jason is, and while biogenic crystals are Kahrine only, moleculaectronic driven bionics have been suggested already. Unles the Kimdori take a dislike to the concept and go around sabotarging everybody, SOMEBODY is going to try it.

That said yeah if we do get biological immortality its probably going to be from somebody reverse engineered those 'healing virus's' that the Kimdori have...or work out how to make Dragonball Z healing tanks.



That does sound a bit suspicious, although I doubt some ancient race of giants would bother with fine-tuning one of a thousand species that way. I would rather suspect some researchers that found a way to gain immortality by science or a novel way to apply their gift. A handful of very unique Faey shaping the course of development of their people from the shadows and naturally they wouldn't want millions of immortals walking around and make life difficult for them so the obsession with being natural might be their way of throwing stones in a possible future gifted immortals way to... uh... ascension?
A good point. A lot of it could just be throwbacks from the Faey path into the stars. Like IIRC there are laws in the Faey Imperium to stop telepathic breeding programs after the original Kahrines became the strongest telepathic house through it because nobdoy wanted that kind of arms race. It could jsut be something like that, such as a few thousand years ago somebody was putting advanced cybernetics into Faey and everybody went "...yeah lets not do this" but It was just such a widespread part of Faey Culture.

Part of me admits part of my suspision that it was implanted was the fact that Jason has shades of this fear of genetic modification as well, all the way back to his introduction to Cybi and the fact that the generations were the product of genetic engineering.
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by MartinK »

Belgarion213 wrote:Its much easier to repair things like limbs, or genetic disorders than the brain itself but you raise a fair point. I was more thinking of things like 'the fog of ages' as people live longer and longer and have to remember lots more stuff...though with things like the Cyberjacks tha's less of an issue if you can just dump excess data onto a data storage or what not. However you raise a very good point there.
There is no such thing as 'excess data' with a human brain. Our minds are preconditioned to forget both unimportant and/or old memories. Few people still remember all the names of classmates when they first entered school as kids. Most people don't even remember what they ate days ago. In fact, most stories about future technological advances go the other way and come up with ways to help people retain more memories longer.
Belgarion213 wrote:However even if YOU don't have immortality, somebody else WILL effectively have it. I can see a lot of people hesitating but a lot of people who are all for it. Its very much a philosophical question, because ...
I wouldn't necessarily be against someone trying to copy himself into some immortal memory copy thingie. But I would very much disagree with creating something with a personality exactly like mine that thinks it is me and has a right to do with my stuff as he wishes. ;) I believe we are more than just a bunch of memories, so many possible technological solutions to the age-old question of circumventing death aren't much of a solution to me. And we still have a long, long way to go in biological sciences. Heck, we still don't understand why the brain actually works as it does. And how far have we actually come in DNA research? It certainly seems to be popular in the media, although there it's more about evil gene-modified plants than learning something new. :-/
Belgarion213 wrote:Like IIRC there are laws in the Faey Imperium to stop telepathic breeding programs after the original Kahrines became the strongest telepathic house through it because nobdoy wanted that kind of arms race.
It doesn't necessarily need breeding programs. At least for humans it is an instinctive need to find other people like yourself and associate with them. You are educated? Your friends will mostly be the same. You come from old money? Growing up, you'll mostly meet and sometimes befriend other people of similar background. You are a Faey with strong telepathic abilities? You'll end up in jobs and activities where you meet other people with strong gifts. Well, it's just a shame that nowadays the rich, educated or overall successful people tend to have few to no children so at least humanity seems to be it's own worst enemy.
Belgarion213 wrote:Part of me admits part of my suspision that it was implanted was the fact that Jason has shades of this fear of genetic modification as well, all the way back to his introduction to Cybi and the fact that the generations were the product of genetic engineering.
Oh? I thought his dislike of that practice was more rooted in it's clash with his principles. Following a breeding program would mean that the children are never allowed to marry of their own choice, won't be allowed to decide the if, when and how many of having kids of their own. It also teaches them to see themselves as superior to others so as to raise motivation to follow the breeding program in the future. One of the first steps from cavemen to a civilized society is an understanding on how to domesticate and breed animals. A breeding program is just applying that knowledge to your own children.

Or perhaps it came about as Jason read about House Karinne and their intend towards building warships and them having taken step after step for centuries towards... well, what exactly was it that they would have become if the other Faey didn't take them out beforehand?
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Belgarion213
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by Belgarion213 »

It might very well have been his principles but even before Jason knew much of the history of the Kahrines he was horrified to find out that there was genetic modification in his thousand year old Faey ancestor...and Myleena was just as horrified. Now to be fair its a bit of a shock but the degree just seemed a bit much. That said yeah at the same time he found out that there was a breeding program and powerful telepaths like Yana would ahve been brought in.

I agree about your point about people tending to find possible partners with people like themselves (aka Old Money, Educated, etc) but there is a law in the Faey Imperium to stop a dedicated breeding program, because it WOULD have eventually turned into a telepathic arms race. For all that I sometimes think that Jason is almost obsessed with the downside of Eugenics(there a lot of downside, and the ethical problems are only the start of it, but sometimes Jason seems to just obsess over it), he does have a point in that nobody wanted to be on the losing side of a telepathic arms race in the Faey Imperium where strength of telepathic power played a very large part in ones role in society.
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Re: Conviction chapter 13

Post by MartinK »

Belgarion213 wrote:It might very well have been his principles but even before Jason knew much of the history of the Kahrines he was horrified to find out that there was genetic modification in his thousand year old Faey ancestor...and Myleena was just as horrified. Now to be fair its a bit of a shock but the degree just seemed a bit much.
I've always wondered why. Perhaps he was horrified because he finally understood his families predilection towards cancer and early death. In and of itself genetic modification isn't actually good or bad. By its very nature anything biological always has a small chance to randomly mutate upon creation. We have certainly read about some strange differences some people are born with and having 6 fingers on one hand is just one of many effects this may take.

We certainly are able to enjoy the fruits of labor of thousands of years of work by our ancestors to breed untold plants and animals towards better use for humanity. I imagine we wouldn't be able to survive if we only had access to the plants and animals in their original form before touched by human hands.

Insofar as genetic modification of plants goes, I'd rather we learn more about how DNA works and become better in applying that knowledge than to just give nature a push and see if there is a random mutation that works better for us.
I agree about your point about people tending to find possible partners with people like themselves (aka Old Money, Educated, etc) but there is a law in the Faey Imperium to stop a dedicated breeding program, because it WOULD have eventually turned into a telepathic arms race. For all that I sometimes think that Jason is almost obsessed with the downside of Eugenics(there a lot of downside, and the ethical problems are only the start of it, but sometimes Jason seems to just obsess over it), he does have a point in that nobody wanted to be on the losing side of a telepathic arms race in the Faey Imperium where strength of telepathic power played a very large part in ones role in society.
Eugenics is usually depicted as evil machinations of a group of people obsessed with something. On the other hand, breeding towards a specific goal takes time for generations to go by and by that very definition humans won't live long enough to see any great results in breeding programs applied to humans. Much easier to do plants that are sown, grown and harvested within a single year.

I wonder how aggressive the Faey military acts in getting their hands on especially strong Faey for them to be successful enough to gather so many of them. Any Faey house should have at least an internal policy of finding those strong ones among the populations of the worlds they control as early as possible and act to cultivate those kids by offering various benefits to see them grow into adults with personal connections to the house. And I'm sure you don't need to start a dedicated breeding program to just throw the strongly gifted into encounters with others of similar strength or keep a database about families that tend to have strong kids.
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