Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Caution: Spoilers!
All about the Subjugation, Insurrection, and Unification books.

Moderator: Sennadar Moderators

Forum rules
Please Read the forum rules.
betatester
Katzh-dashi
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 3:00 pm
Location: Melbourne

Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by betatester »

So I think the light that the Parri shaman is detecting is the oracle system.

I think its a new species that syndicate discovered in Andromeda that possesses precognitive capabilities just like the energy beings of consortium had different psy-ioncs. Its just like minority report(the movie) the precogs are the oracle system that Syndicate devised that matches the precogs with some machinery to spit out results that are understandable by syndicate; as seers could just be spouting prophecies and unless you decode the prophecy you don't understand it.

What do you guys think?
User avatar
kyli
Mi'Shara
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:38 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by kyli »

The precog is holding out on the syndicate. That made me immediatly conclude that the precog is not a Benga, but is instead a race that the syndicate enslaved. Obvoisely, the precog knows about the interdictors, but it seems its not sharing that information. That makes me wonder if the syndicate is being set up by the precog, but if so, then its a very dangerous game he/she is playing. That might actually explain a few things.
"I got stabbed. After 10 days of agony, the sword died."
betatester
Katzh-dashi
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 3:00 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by betatester »

kyli wrote:The precog is holding out on the syndicate. That made me immediatly conclude that the precog is not a Benga, but is instead a race that the syndicate enslaved. Obvoisely, the precog knows about the interdictors, but it seems its not sharing that information. That makes me wonder if the syndicate is being set up by the precog, but if so, then its a very dangerous game he/she is playing. That might actually explain a few things.
Now I am thinking perhaps this new species as a whole started the sequence of wars to win their freedom; perhaps they allowed the Syndicate to dominate consortium to force them to look for new technology and edge needed to beat syndicate; So Consortium remembers the race they encountered a 1000 years ago in another galaxy and that had pretty advanced tech.

Perhaps they had seen the house of karine being restored; but Jason initially had no plans to rapidly militarize or even expand house population and they very pretty laid back with the tech they had and with no plans to develop new tech. so they forced consortium to seek new technology just to survive against syndicate. Thus starting the whole saga
User avatar
kyli
Mi'Shara
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:38 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by kyli »

That's just a bit to far fetched for me. In any case, since there is only one precog with a fleet of 30000 ships, then precogs must still be very rare, even in the race they come from. They would not be an entire race of precogs. I think for the most part, the precog has no other choice but to cooperate with the syndicate. It might have sensed that the Karinnes could help it and is only able to hold back information from the syndicate because of the off chance the help is coming.
“But within that darkness, there is a single, small point of light. There is a faint illumination of love, but it is dimmed by fear, and terror, and hopelessness. The light of love we see is confused and afraid, trapped in a nightmare that forces darkness upon it, but it struggles against its chains and seeks release. It knows that freedom is close, and with your help, Jason Karinne, that light can be freed from its prison,”
Nightmare.... that might be literally speaking instead of metaphorically. Maybe the Oracle is a computer system that extracts and processes information from the precog while he/she is in that dream state.
"I got stabbed. After 10 days of agony, the sword died."
SYED
Child of Niami
Posts: 911
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:02 pm
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by SYED »

I totally see the syndicate imprisoning precogs in the oracle system. They might be benga or they might not be, we know that other races have unique telepathic powers. I am hoping that the oracle system once refitted with biogenic equipment, would be viable for use by generations. I don't see house karrine forcing members to be immersed in the system on a permanent basis. I could see the next biogenic mainframe being dedicated to the system.
I can see precogs being a rare bloodline, so once located, they become property. I always suspected that one aspect of the oracle system, was a kind of forced dream state. This seems to be confirmed by the shaman statement, I wonder if that is how they heard the voice. The altered state was enough for their voice to carry. I wonder if precogs are not the only limitation in the oracle system, what if they need specialized hardware and software? I wonder about this because while not as advanced as the confederation, I am pretty sure their tech is advanced enough to forcibly breed more precogs. So they could possibly have the numbers to make the oracle system more available for the syndicate at large.
The largest super ship might be the only one with the needed computing infrastructure needed to run it. In the home Galaxy, they likely have dedicated planetary or station installations to serve the oracle system. I am thinking not only an altered dream state or trance, combined with some kind of super VR system.

They have four salvaged super ships, they could take a lot to repair them enough for service. We know the confederation has difficulty facing the syndicate super ships without back up. Those ships refitted wit even standard confederation tech would be enough of an advantage to hold their own in battle
.S.A.M.K.M
MartinK
Da'Shar
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:52 am

Re: Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by MartinK »

betatester wrote:Now I am thinking perhaps this new species as a whole started the sequence of wars to win their freedom; perhaps they allowed the Syndicate to dominate consortium to force them to look for new technology and edge needed to beat syndicate; So Consortium remembers the race they encountered a 1000 years ago in another galaxy and that had pretty advanced tech.

Perhaps they had seen the house of karine being restored; but Jason initially had no plans to rapidly militarize or even expand house population and they very pretty laid back with the tech they had and with no plans to develop new tech. so they forced consortium to seek new technology just to survive against syndicate. Thus starting the whole saga
If this new and unknown species could see and plan so far ahead while in captivity under the Syndicate and forced to serve as part of their Oracle system, then they have been the reason the Bengal have been so successful in the recent past. That makes me wonder how the Bengal have managed to enslave those powerful precogs in the first place. If they could see what was happening in a neighboring galaxy, then why the heck did they let themselves get captured in the first place?

The only way to capture a powerful precog is to use a precog that is at least as powerful as your target. If you know the future and your enemy also knows the future, isn't that almost like playing chess in your mind with your enemy? Make up a plan for the future you see, intend to execute it, then check how the future has changed and repeat the process. Well, that or send some force of chaos in who doesn't use plans but reacts very randomly and on the spur of the moment. Yeah, that would certainly give a precog a headache. Not that the virtual precognization planning wouldn't...
What does a signature tell us about a person that has a signature significantly longer than the text he posted in his last post?
Belgarion213
Da'Shar
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:31 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by Belgarion213 »

Keep in mind that even if you know the enemy is going to attack at Point A, unless you have a force large enough to do anything about it, you are still kind of screwed. The Confederacy is already staring down the barrels of thousands of Super Ships and they have the resources of most of the Milky Way behind them. What is a single species meant to do when the Consortium or the Syndicate turns up with a thousand super ships?

Remember, we don't know how accurate the precog actually is.
betatester
Katzh-dashi
Posts: 115
Joined: Thu May 29, 2014 3:00 pm
Location: Melbourne

Re: Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by betatester »

Belgarion213 wrote: What is a single species meant to do when the Consortium or the Syndicate turns up with a thousand super ships?
That's why I think the whole precog species may be behind this; a single species can't do jack shit against the Consortium or Syndicate when they can just show up with a 100000 ships at your planet. They could just simply do mass suicide or die fighting. Even if they decide to die fighting some of them would have been captured.

And I think Syed is correct this oracle system is like forcing someone in an Astral projection state just the parri shaman could do it.

Speaking of Parri I just had a thought perhaps people are able Astral project themselves; they just need to train a bit. I think once Jason rescues this precog; he would start training with the shaman to gain Astral projection capabilities.

Also speaking of Super-ships they have captured 3 almost intact super-ships. the forth one was the one they boarded to try to capture it.

They would get more super ships as the confederation fights the force already present in milky way. They have trapped the syndicate backup fleet in Oasis. they will not join the fight
SYED
Child of Niami
Posts: 911
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:02 pm
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by SYED »

Didn't the shaman claim that Jason could have the potential to become a shaman himself? The energy beings of the consortium had their ability block by shaman blessing, which suggests that their abilities could be on the same wavelength. If th syndicate and consortium has been at war for so long, they had to have learned a lot about each other. The oracle system might have been developed from that study.
I don't think you have to have telepathy to be a shaman. So potentially a wide range of beings could one day have access to similar skills. The faey might be the best school for telepaths, but want to bet that house karrine will have the best school for shaman. Imagine if it turns out that for full shamans, only generations can take advantage. They might have lost the mind machine advantage, but their boosted telepathic powers combined with shaman abilities would keep the house safe.

The thing is why is there only one oracle. Surely if there were others, they would have heard that cry and informed their masters. I bet due to the slavery, only passive shaman skill are available, or those that are mental gifts/divination. If the oracle system is linked to shaman power, that suggests it might be associated with the power of the consortium energy beings. If so, why did they never do operate to deal with the syndicate.
.S.A.M.K.M
MartinK
Da'Shar
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:52 am

Re: Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by MartinK »

Belgarion213 wrote:Keep in mind that even if you know the enemy is going to attack at Point A, unless you have a force large enough to do anything about it, you are still kind of screwed. The Confederacy is already staring down the barrels of thousands of Super Ships and they have the resources of most of the Milky Way behind them. What is a single species meant to do when the Consortium or the Syndicate turns up with a thousand super ships?
Uh... not be there? Or rather, see to it that the Syndicate has no reason to attack the world of that single species with overwhelming odds? In the first place, whyever would the Syndicate send barrels of thousands of Super Ships? Moving those giants can't be cheap and as we all know, the Syndicate is a capitalism so I feel an attack will be optimized to be done with the least number of ships while minimizing the damage received and thus to be repaired.

I'm sure that a species targeted to be conquered should at least be able to hide any special abilities like supreme precognition as to not get singled out in a mass of client species newly conquered. If you know you will loose, go for the least bit of damage. If you know you are getting attacked, try not to be there for the attack. No matter the size of the enemy army and the power of their weapons, as long as you aren't where they show up, as long as you aren't where their weapons shoot at, they can't harm you.
Remember, we don't know how accurate the precog actually is.
Good enough to get the Syndicate to win where they once where only fighting to a standstill against the Consortium, if I remember correctly. But still, we all talk about our assumptions here.
What does a signature tell us about a person that has a signature significantly longer than the text he posted in his last post?
User avatar
kyli
Mi'Shara
Posts: 587
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 1:38 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by kyli »

MartinK wrote: Uh... not be there? Or rather, see to it that the Syndicate has no reason to attack the world of that single species with overwhelming odds? In the first place, whyever would the Syndicate send barrels of thousands of Super Ships? Moving those giants can't be cheap and as we all know, the Syndicate is a capitalism so I feel an attack will be optimized to be done with the least number of ships while minimizing the damage received and thus to be repaired.
In order to "not be there," they would bave to be capable of moving off planet. They could very well have been like the parri, but if they do have the tech needed to move, then they would probably also have a huge population. Can u imagine having to evacuate Earth in RL? At this point, with our tech, it would be pretty much impossible. And then u would have to have somewhere to go. Deep dark space is not very habitable after all. And then, if by some miracle, they find a habitable place, it has to be somewhere where the syndicate couldn't find you. Again, almost impossible unless they had real time jump engines. The syndicate would continue exploring planets until they stumble upon them. Plus, the only ones who we've heard of that have real time jump engines are those that got them from the karrinnes one way or another. The syndicate and confederation got their real time engines from the consortium, who got them from the karinnes. So just how do you think this race, even knowing the future, could avoid capture? How would we avoid getting invaded by aliens with vastly more resources and tech if we knew the future and knew they were coming next month, or next year. Short answer is, we couldn't stop it or get everyone away.

And as for making sure they don't attack with overwhelming odds, a single super ship is overwhelming odds to most of the Confederation empires. They would have to be pretty advanced to fight the syndicate, and even then, with the syndicate resources, its an impossible fight. Only option would be to try and get to the consortium and join them, but they probably weren't technologically advanced enough to get there.
"I got stabbed. After 10 days of agony, the sword died."
SoronelHaetir
Katzh-dashi
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:07 am
Location: Smack dab in the middle of the great wet north

Re: Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by SoronelHaetir »

Something I got thinking about:
“You mean that time when we have to sit in those chairs with restraints and see the hallucinations?”

I would not have been surprised if the Parri got some different experience out of hyperspace travel. And in any event would not have expected the shaman to describe it in terms of hallucination (perhaps "strange visions")..
SYED
Child of Niami
Posts: 911
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:02 pm
Location: ENGLAND

Re: Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by SYED »

I could understand a being desperate, but why do eager for the indictor being n? Sure it could deeply mess with syndicate plans, but in the short term, they would still be trapped surrounded by bad guys. Does the indictor have any effects apart from interfering with hyperspace? Could the supposed shaman/pre cog abilies interact with hyperspace sciences?
The so called halucinations experienced during hyperspace might just be some form of uncontrolled ability.
.S.A.M.K.M
MartinK
Da'Shar
Posts: 197
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:52 am

Re: Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by MartinK »

SoronelHaetir wrote:I would not have been surprised if the Parri got some different experience out of hyperspace travel. And in any event would not have expected the shaman to describe it in terms of hallucination (perhaps "strange visions")..
If there ever was someone who could tell between a hallucination and a vision in hyperspace it will be the Parri. A hallucination isn't real, just something the mind invents to fill what it does not understand. A vision now, I'm sure the Parri shaman has plenty of strange visions that try to tell her all sorts of things... ;)
What does a signature tell us about a person that has a signature significantly longer than the text he posted in his last post?
Belgarion213
Da'Shar
Posts: 218
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:31 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Conviction Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by Belgarion213 »

SYED: Why they want the Interdictor on? Even if htey are surrounded by bad guys, if its turned off, it might be possible for somebody to run a oracle simulation/prediction and come to the conclusion that it might be a good idea to send all their ships out through their window. Even if they couldn't detect the interdictors because of the Kimdori, just asking "What is the best order to give to secure victory' would probably have them escaping. If the wars are being fought to win somebody's freedom, then the Karines and the confederacy have to be in a position where they are not being ran over by the super ships.

Also, the so called hallucinations in hyperspace are, as per Subjugation, because people can't comprehend the higher dimensions of hyperspace. Now if the Shaman or other people can perceive those higher dimensions then yeah they probably can go into hyperspace without suffering hallucinations etc.
Locked