Conviction, Chapter 8 (spoilers)

[Fel]

I doupt that would be possible in subjugation though and it won't protect anything quite as effectively since there are still weapons that can be used against it.

Actually, the Karinnes DO have the capability to put an entire planet into a phased state, at least sort of, by using a planetary shield to do the job. Karis has a planetary shield, so they could theoretically phase Karis. By phasing the shield, it in effect phases everything inside of it, since everything would have to go through the shield to reach it. The planet itself wouldn't be truly phased, but since it's enclosed within a phased field, it effectively phases the planet without ACTUALLY phasing the planet.

[kyli]

I doupt that would be possible in subjugation though and it won't protect anything quite as effectively since there are still weapons that can be used against it.

Actually, the Karinnes DO have the capability to put an entire planet into a phased state, at least sort of, by using a planetary shield to do the job. Karis has a planetary shield, so they could theoretically phase Karis. By phasing the shield, it in effect phases everything inside of it, since everything would have to go through the shield to reach it. The planet itself wouldn't be truly phased, but since it's enclosed within a phased field, it effectively phases the planet without ACTUALLY phasing the planet.

I don't see why it would work that way. I agree that enemy fire would go though the shield since it isn't phase-matched with the weapons fire, but as soon as enemy fire encounters anything that its phase-matched with, it will impact it. And as you say, the planet isn't truly out of phase. The point of putting an entire planet out of phase would be so that enemy fire literally goes through the planet without impacting it. All this would do is make the shield useless. Or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about.

[SYED]

Phase shifted weaponry can go through shields, so cause lots of damage to the enemy.

The catapult the consortium were going to build, is said to be slow. I think it was around 9 ly per day. Karrine improved version could be a lot faster. From a descrption, the quantum inverter affects the apparent mass of the ship. This could improve ship speed with other forms of FTL. I don't know the speed for hyperdrive, but the fastest non karrine translight speed is more than 50 ly per day.

Part of the reason I keep thinking about the other forms of FTL, is that everyone will be wanting their own ways to by pass indication fields. Especially when they all observe the karrine ships use translight engines in battle. So the house should developed the alternatives for themselves, so they would have the superior version. And best to know how to deal with it themselves if need be. They could create a form of indication for them, or keep them in check.

[Hello World]

Going on the whole phased-note, would something like a hyperspace submarine be technologically feasible? Basically combine the same tech that the Kimdori use to lock probes into place and a jack-enabled ship (no jump shock) with a really nice engine that can start quickly. That way, you have a ship that "hides" and travels through the battlefield in hyperspace and only comes out to attack. Or heck, shoot weapons from hyperspace into real space (I'm guessing physical things like rail slugs or missiles would have this ability?).

[SYED]

Since they have hyper missiles, they could fire while in hyper if fed the right sensor data. I think the kimdori can drop or pick up a shuttle with out leaving hyper, I don't remember the exact details.

[Belgarion213]

There was one instance where the Kimdori were picking up some agents that had infiltrated the Consortium base. Jason asked if they got out safely and the Denmother said that the ship that picked them up never left hyperspace. Even Jason was impressed with the kind of dedication and work taht needs to be put to do something like that.

A 'hyperspace submarine' would probably be pretty feasible if not exactly comfortable to the crew...though you might be able to do something like use the android bodies (sorry mind blanked on their name) via biogenics to 'crew' it while keeping he crew safe on Karis.

[expedient]

would something like a hyperspace submarine be technologically feasible?

We discussed a similar idea to this concept when the Karinnes were trying to combine the hyperlight drive and hyperspace engines. The main problem seems to be that they have no way to change velocity in hyperspace. There is a partial solution to this in that they can switch the hyperlight drive on and off (and up and down) in hyperspace but they cannot change direction. All hyperspace travel is determined by the energy carried over from when a ship first enters hyperspace. KMS ships have more power and better hyperspace engines and so they are well above the threshold for both real-time travel and overcoming the interdiction effect. The hyperlight drives put the ships into an energy state where they have less physical presence to forces such as the universal propagation limit [speed of light], inertia and its hyperspace equivalent. This allows them to go even faster but to turn direction they have to drop out of hyperspace and set off on another trajectory. So in theory a ship could do a "slow" pass by in hyperspace but not fully navigate entirely within hyperspace.

In my mind I picture the hyperlight drives as having a similar effect as phased light in a laser compared to a normal torch without phasing. This phasing gives ships a more energy intense focused ability to travel in space. With hyperspace engines pushing ships into an energy state where they (partially at least) interact with the fabric of space-time rather being constrained by it.

The Karinnes have plenty of space manipulation technology and stargates so, in theory, space-folding drives are possible with huge amounts of energy. Along with the Alcubierre drive (warp drives) for bypassing interdiction. Also the unanchored wormhole could be made more reliable given more research. Perhaps an artificial pocket space where the entry aperture could be moved to a different anchorage in space-time?

[Fel]

I doupt that would be possible in subjugation though and it won't protect anything quite as effectively since there are still weapons that can be used against it.

Actually, the Karinnes DO have the capability to put an entire planet into a phased state, at least sort of, by using a planetary shield to do the job. Karis has a planetary shield, so they could theoretically phase Karis. By phasing the shield, it in effect phases everything inside of it, since everything would have to go through the shield to reach it. The planet itself wouldn't be truly phased, but since it's enclosed within a phased field, it effectively phases the planet without ACTUALLY phasing the planet.

I don't see why it would work that way. I agree that enemy fire would go though the shield since it isn't phase-matched with the weapons fire, but as soon as enemy fire encounters anything that its phase-matched with, it will impact it. And as you say, the planet isn't truly out of phase. The point of putting an entire planet out of phase would be so that enemy fire literally goes through the planet without impacting it. All this would do is make the shield useless. Or maybe I just don't know what I'm talking about.

Mainly because Teryon shields are interphased/metaphased much like IP waveform energy, metaphased by design but also interphased because Teryon energy is interphased, but I do see what you're getting at, and you're partially right. I was thinking along the lines of "what can get at a planet that's inside an interphased shield, since it exists in all phased states?"

If something could get past the shield, yah, you're right, it could affect the unphased planet behind it.

[SYED]

If you count wormholes, there are 4 forms of FTL. Imagine if all four systems could be combined. It would be epic.

With jacks and bionoids, they could operate ships in hyper for long term. So long as they can recieve sensor data from real space, they could operate from hyper. It is said that they mine or extract certain materials from hyper, could a facility in hyper aid these processes?

[valinor89]

If you count wormholes, there are 4 forms of FTL. Imagine if all four systems could be combined. It would be epic.

With jacks and bionoids, they could operate ships in hyper for long term. So long as they can recieve sensor data from real space, they could operate from hyper. It is said that they mine or extract certain materials from hyper, could a facility in hyper aid these processes?

I wonder if a worrmhole "stargate" can be active while moving. We have stablished that stargates are big, cumbersome, fragile and need a lot of manteinance. They also take some time to stablish a link, but that is solved by commune tech.

Maybe we could use the planetoid that has a hole straight trough and put a stargate inside. You have the ultimate mobile beachhead.

The other consideration is how does gravity affect the wormhole, as we have stablished that those ships create some gravity by sheer mass.

The wormholes also open a lot of possibilities depending of how they work and how small and stable you can make them.
Check the Exodus: Empires at War series from Doug Dandridge, specially the late books for some "epic" wormhole uses.

[SYED]

The quantum FTL is around 9 ly per day, while the Karrines have improved the hyper light into 54 ly per day. The quantum FTL is an energy field that breakdown. I always thought that the Karrines could make it a ship based system, and potentially strengthen it to increase speed. Since the hyper light and quantum forms are both a real space system, could they boost each other? It could potentially offer them a way to mess with hyper light attempting to breach indication, while allowing their craft to pass unhindered.

It would be epic if they could fit a teryon mass driver on a frigate. They get in close, decloak and annihilate a super ship.

Imagine if they could deploy beacons, via the wormhole in numbers to act as a stabilizing effect to allow for consistent and manned travel through that wormhole. Even if this system only works for extra galactic trips, due to the increased stability derived from extreme long distances. That way they need only build one giant wormhole deliverer. Or instead they use their translight capable ships delay the beacons for them. The ships sent through might not be able to return via wormhole, but it would be a great deployment system.

Do we know how many of the 18583 ships deployed syndicate ships were dealt with?

I wonder if the Karrines could help deal with the missile issues. They must have some targeting or sensory capability, I could see the Karrines adapting the kimdori stealth tech to protect the confederation ships from missiles. If the hot plasma weapon is such a threat, a defence aimed specificly at this, would allow ships to survive longer.

[kyli]

The quantum FTL is around 9 ly per day, while the Karrines have improved the hyper light into 54 ly per day.

They can actually go 54 ly per hour if i remember correctly. I didn't go back and check but thats how i remember it. And I still think combining other FTL systems isn't gonna work. Like oil and water... or maybe fire and gasoline. Somethings just don't mix.

[SYED]

Even if they can't make the quantum system ship based or hybridized with the other forms of FTL , I bet they could make an improved catapult or what even the consortium was planning to build using the tech. It might be something they can safely market as a way to exit indicted space. Due to the fact it is so slow, while it does allow for a system to be breached, defence shiqs get plenty of time to respond to intruders. Say a super ship attempts to break in, rail guns in sheer number would make them to reconsider.
I always wondered if this system could be used to allow missiles and projectiles to be used at extreme distances. It could also be used to launch small craft for extreme defences, giving them some defences from enemy fire.

[kyli]

It might be something they can safely market as a way to exit indicted space.

They already can exit interdicted space by riding the interdiction wave. And the hyperspace bridges let them get into interdicted space. Translight drives are currently the only other fast way into interdicted space for the rest of the Confederation except for stargates. But i still takes 40 minutes for a non-karinne made translight drive to travel 1 light year. I don't think I'd really worry about the other FTL systems because they are a lot slower and less efficient. I'm sure the karinnes could improve them a bit but probably not enough to make them worth it.

[MartinK]

I don't think I'd really worry about the other FTL systems because they are a lot slower and less efficient. I'm sure the karinnes could improve them a bit but probably not enough to make them worth it.

Don't forget, those other FTL systems are either the product of some backwards civilization that has just discovered how to get to the neighboring star system and was celebrating just the fact that they no longer needed to build generation ships to go there - or it was the product of ages ago in civilizations that are so much more advanced that they abandoned FTL systems in favor of faster hyperspace drives.

All in all, none of the FTL systems have had the benefit of overhaul with modern science, methods and technology except for the onces that the Karinnes are using. I don't think that you would get FTL drives that are that much worse than the Karinne ones if you used modern tech of other (Faey?) nations. It's just that the interdictors are an important part of the defenses of many worlds and nations and none of them would want the FTL tech in other peoples hands. So, developing it may lead to diplomatic problems and last but not least, if you develop a technology then the chances that they end up in the wrong hands are much higher than if you don't.

Still, I have no doubt most of the aggressive and expansionist nations are already busy working on FTL drives. And probably a few pirates, smugglers and mercenary forces here and there as well. So, no rest for House Karinne, better get cracking at those FTL inhibitors fast. I can see a brute force FTL inhibitor method by mining all that massive empty space.. or even just using rocks big enough, but implementing that would take years for just a single location. Jason could do that at least for Karis. On the other hand, giving the enemy rocks to hide behind and creep up on Karis wouldn't be that great.