chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

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michaelsuave
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chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by michaelsuave »

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So in chapter 7 we see the enemy invade the galaxy by basically scattering their forces hither and yon. That makes me ask, at what point does Jason and the kimdori respond with force in the other galaxy? My thinking is that It has to be big, brutal, and throw the entire rival galaxy into chaos if they want any hope of stopping the unrelenting greed and power hungry enemy corporations. So, what better than starting a supernova in the star that the corporate government is run out of?
do you think it is possible? Would Jason do it from an ethical perspective? They are going to keep coming as long as the corporate entities are still going concerns with a chain of command, and right now they are feeling safe in their "fully" owned and protected galaxy. The corporations done know the karriene (spelling*) and kimdori are there, but will the moment they attack. So my thinking is go big or go home. Thoughts?
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Re: chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by TLGG »

It already came up when That was introduced. It was a definite and resounding No, and remember, no one outside Jason and the CBIMs even know about it. I leaves permanent damage, and the what is worse, it would mean the death of trillions of inocents, something he's said before he cares about. His enemies are the corporations, not everyone born in that galaxy.
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Re: chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by SYED »

The very fact Jason can send his forces to andromeda would be a huge message to begin with. However there may be those who would be more eager for the invasion as it potentially may gain them the karrine intergalactic engines.

All those comments about about how the syndicate are a bunch of corpArations, and the fact they don't fully update all their systems make me think of the original story. Jason started his campaign against house trillane by setting up a system where he terrorized their profit margin. They could have protected their cargo transports, but it would be a huge and costly investment.

Since the enemy is the ruler of an entire galaxy, any starting attack needs to a big hit, not necessarily military damage but to strike the enemy psyche. For the last past centuries, they have been strapped in a very static conflict. They might be unable to adapt to deal with Jason unique warfare style. Imagine his stick mines, conduit breakers, satan marbles, hello kitty, my little pony and odie unleashed on a galactic scale.
Any such large scale military expedition would need extensive logistical and supply support, if they target enough of it they can at least push back any reinforcements being deployed. That gives them time for the confederation fleet to fully adapt and improve themselves with acquired syndicate technologies. They might have enough force for the Karrines to establish a gate to andromeda, and dispatch the ships for naval actions directly.
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Re: chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by calista241 »

Can you imagine if they interdicted the Syndicate's capital world? Just shut off all communication and all travel to and from the capital. Blow up a few shipyards, put a few dozen interdictors in the path of a few major trade routes.

With 20ish interdictors strategically placed around the galaxy, they could all but bring about the fall of the Syndicate.
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Re: chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by SYED »

With intergalactic communications limited there, interdiction is some placed can cause a lot of damage before the syndicate authority becomes aware of it.

Due to the size of the ship, I keep thinking that one ship is not enough to eliminate the enemy due to how there are very few centralized systems on the big ships. I keep on thinking about a weapon or system that is distributed across multiple ships, to create a web convering the enemy.

The big ships seem to be a careful balance of elements, why not create a weapon to upset the balance? Jason is an engineer, once he knows how something is built, he can figure out ways to epicly break it.
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Re: chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by michaelsuave »

Whatever they do, they are going to have to figure out the predictive computational device that the enemy uses to stop from losing key battles. We already saw it pull the enemy out of hyperspace before they could run into the trap. They have to defeat that first, or any major blow I'll be crippled before Jason can initiate the attack.
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Tin Foil... Still putting down money that its the key for the defeat of the baddies...

Fel, Is it done yet? Probably not, but I don't have anything better to do! Is it done yet? Probably not, but I don't have anything better to do! Ahhh, its done... dang, now what am I going to read???
New books! Yay! let the nagging begin! Is it done yet? Probably not, but I don't have anything better to do! Is it done yet? Probably not, but I don't have anything better to do!...

True, I really have nothing better to do in my free time, I mean, what could be better than reading Fel's stories or being messed with by Spec? Thanks for the fun spec!
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Re: chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by MartinK »

calista241 wrote:Can you imagine if they interdicted the Syndicate's capital world? Just shut off all communication and all travel to and from the capital. Blow up a few shipyards, put a few dozen interdictors in the path of a few major trade routes.

With 20ish interdictors strategically placed around the galaxy, they could all but bring about the fall of the Syndicate.
Oh? Why? That looks more like a recipe to invite experimentation on how to circumvent interdiction. They have the resources of most of a huge galaxy at their fingertips - and it is not that a single capital world is all there is to it. As seen on Earth, if you have no close connection between places, people will want to be independent from the place they came from. Otherwise we would still have a South America that is ruled out of Portugal or Spain and a North America ruled by French and British politicians. Now imagine how massively huge the organization has to be to rule most of a galaxy. I imagine the bigger corporations all have their own worlds or regions of space with hundreds of worlds in their control. Perhaps similar to the Faey house system if you take out the capital, they might wish to fight for supremacy amongst themselves, but first they will unite to fight the bigger thread - you.

You only have one chance to act with surprise in Andromeda. That is, if you act in a hostile manner. I still believe that gaining information and knowledge about your enemy is what you should gather there. After that, you might start taking over from the inside out. Knowledge is Power! And with the Kimdori spy netwerk established in that galaxy, let us try to incite divisions in the top ranks of those who rule there. Most of the powerful empires of earths history fell not to external enemies but to internal changes.

Besides, would you want the political entities of our galaxy to fall into bickering among themselves as they fight to control and rule regions in the other galaxy?
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Re: chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by SYED »

From the description, it only influences key events. The thing with his sabotage, there is no key event, just wearing down and weakening the system. So their ability to see the future won't be able to influence these situations.

Jason is friends with that mafia like noble right. She had lots of smuggling contacts. She might be the most aware of commerce raiding and other offensive actions against businesses. It is not about destroying them, but making them loose money, but unable to change to deal with the issue due to sheer cost.
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Re: chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by Belgarion213 »

The issue is tat the Syndicate has most of a galaxy's worth of resources. While asymmetrical warfare is all very well and good, and Jason was pissing of the noble house in charge of Earth, doing the same thing on a galactic scale is almost inconceivable. Also remember the Syndicate has been at war with the Consortium for millennia. I seriously doubt there cargo transports were as 'undefended' as the stuff that was used to move stuff around Earth.

It could be done but it could very well stretch the resources of all of the allied worlds in the milky way galaxy to well get enough resources to strain them.
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Re: chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by SYED »

He doesn't need to ruin the companies, just make them believe their own competitors are messing with them. He could start a corpArations war. Who else would be cutting into their profit margins.
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Re: chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by Belgarion213 »

...The Consortium? You know the guys they have been at war with for 6000 years?
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Re: chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by SYED »

Those energy being and their bug soldiers, they just don't qualify to me as guerrila forces. They had set rules of warfare, even if they twisted them to suit their needs, they are not out of the box thinkers.
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Re: chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by Griffinmane »

SYED wrote:He doesn't need to ruin the companies, just make them believe their own competitors are messing with them. He could start a corpArations war. Who else would be cutting into their profit margins.
While I like the idea of the Corporations fighting themselves a more insidious approach would be using their own abilities against themselves. It has been stated in the series many time that they are greedy. I assume that to mean the individuals in the Syndicate and not just the Corporations themselves. So use that greed itself against them.

So while fighting the fleet in our galaxy, have the Kimdori and Moridon analyze their legal system and look for loopholes in their laws that allows individuals at the top to embezzle money from the corporation through shell companies and inflated profits to cover the missing funds. Much like Enron did. Then drop hints in the right ears across the galaxy. Then they led individuals to invest more into the company because they have false confidence in their profit. By making it system wide and not started by only a select number of people, it makes it harder for the procogs. Then maybe even siphon away the embezzled funds. So it is harder for them to recover once the problems are discovered. In essence find a way to cause a galaxy wide Great Depression. This means when they recover the won't be looking for revenge on the Milky Way because it was they themselves that caused the problem. Or make sure they don't recover and fragment apart. Similar to the Foundation series. Then the main problem is dealing with the current fleet. The admiral in charge has no incentive to return to Andromeda since the system there is collapsing and will want to carve an empire for herself in the Milky Way.
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Re: chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by SYED »

We know slavery is practiced over there, so create something akin to an underground rail road shipping them to safety. Undermine that section of the economy might be key. They could slowly introduce tech to replace slave work force, so able to purchase them cheaply. It would allow them to slowly infiltrate their own systems in to their economy and infrastructure.
Jason was able to establish a restance against a telepathic empire, so using what he learned to arm these down trodden races. With minimal support, they could do untold damage over a long term.

I wonder what would happen if marbles were released on one of those super ships. They were able to take out a space station, what about something even bigger?
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Re: chapter 7 (spoiler) discussion responses to actions

Post by MartinK »

SYED wrote:We know slavery is practiced over there, so create something akin to an underground rail road shipping them to safety.
They enslave each other, why would you safe them only to deliver them to where they wanted to be in the first place? Slaves aren't god guys simply by being the underdogs. Besides, most of their galaxy is enslaved to them, anything you might be able to safe is just a drop in the ocean. And if it becomes more than that, your rail road becomes obvious.
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