Conviction, Chapter 7

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NSC
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Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by NSC »

I'm halfway through the chapter, and they just finished the tour of the moon sized ship. I was wondering if there would be any investigation into the huge hole burned through it, and what kind of inference could be made of the weapon that created it by studying the boundaries of the hole at various locations? Is this superweapon mobile? How many are there?

I'm also remembering from a previous chapter something about a Karinne experiment that would result in tearing of space itself. I keep wondering if we'll see that come back into play. It's unusual for FEL to mention something that doesn't eventually return.
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Re: Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by expedient »

Some random notes after reading the chapter.

Won't the bionoids be a problem for Kimdori operatives as they can't just "brush" up against someone now and gather up their secrets. They will have to identify who exactly is merged with a particular bionoid and then "contact" them. Or intercept and decode the merge session.

Could they build some kind of hyperspace weapon or mine that could knock an individual ship out of hyperspace, using something similar the Teryon material? In fact could the great big hole in the Syndicate super ship be caused by flying through something in hyperspace?

Might there be a third party in play in Andromeda? It could explain why the super ship was never recovered if an advanced enemy had some kind of superweapon the Syndicate wanted to avoid in that region.
NSC wrote:I'm also remembering from a previous chapter something about a Karinne experiment that would result in tearing of space itself. I keep wondering if we'll see that come back into play. It's unusual for FEL to mention something that doesn't eventually return.
I've been thinking about this too ever since they've gotten to Andromeda. The big sticking points might be the huge number of civilian casualties and unknown consequences of destroying large parts of a nearby galaxy.
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Re: Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by Fel »

You're talking about the spatial rift bomb.

And no, the Karinnes won't be using it. It has the potential to destroy massive swaths of a galaxy, and you know Jason would NEVER authorize such a thing.
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Re: Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by SoronelHaetir »

So I was wondering about the new IP tech, it protects against kinetic as well as other normal-physics damage. Does it re-enforce things enough that an outfitted ship could be used as a survivable missile? Basically bring back ancient naval ramming attacks.
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Re: Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by kyli »

SoronelHaetir wrote:So I was wondering about the new IP tech, it protects against kinetic as well as other normal-physics damage. Does it re-enforce things enough that an outfitted ship could be used as a survivable missile? Basically bring back ancient naval ramming attacks.
I thought of something similar while reading, but with rail slugs. I don't doubt that rail cannon slugs would still vaperize at such insane speeds, but they would probably penetrate deeper and do a lot more damage if the system can be installed.
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Re: Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by SYED »

I am betting syndicate technology will be shared via the academy, similar to how the consortium tech was. The power system that creates gravity could be useful. The torsion diffuser affected some gravity systems correct, could a version of this tech make up for this vulnerability? Alternate tech paths have been effective solutions in the past.

It takes a lot of resources to salvage and refit those giant ships. The thing is with the size of the confederation, them working as a whole could do it quickly. While it would not be adavanced as a karrine/kimdori refitted ship, instead of using the lowest bid contracts, the best and most advanced of the confederation, consortium and syndicate tech bases. It only by working together can the confederation nations refit the giant ships, their numbers and resources making up for their tech base. As was mentioned, karrine tech allows them far more options so able to refit the ships for themselves. Tow the captured ships to Karis space, and those shipyard workers assigned to the moon base, could be moved to a new project. They would be mobile fleet bases for the confederation. It could be a repair and salvage station, as well as a huge fighter base. If these bases are not meant to be front line, I wonder if they might install extensive long distance armament.
The Karrines have hyper space missiles, so I wonder if projectiles could be out fitted with the other two FTL systems. Not only does it allow them to fire from far beyond the enemies firing range, but potentially allow for their missiles, torpedoes and projectiles to activate with the ship itself.

Those moon ship are potentially mobile space settlements. There was a Skaa system that was devestated. No living planet, just loads of mining settlements. Imagine version of this ship, traveling between such systems, providing them with everything they need on board. It could move between systems, carrying the miners and their full facilities. In this book series I read, they inflated an asteroid and turned it into a mobile battle station. It acted as an anchorage for a fleet, mobile missile launcher, and it had this awesome laser system. The systems stared as a bunch of mobile lenses and mirrors that collected sunlight, channeled and focused it into beams they also used to mine and refine asteroids. It was also an epic weapon. These ships potentially have the power for such a system, to slowly heat up, then spin the targets, separating the valuable material from the dross.

The new ship killer weapon the Karrines developed are best deployed via the small ships. The CMS has a maximum size limitation, so only available for the smaller ships. So not only are the small ships to be feared for their combat ability, they are nearly impossible to detect, and if they do so, next to impossible to eliminate.

What is the system hiden at Oasis, the tackler system it was called? I can remember.

There was a missile that drilled into a ship, it was a torsion weapon I think. Can they make one not torsion based or overwhelming the diffuser? Is there a way to use the system against them?
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Re: Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by SoronelHaetir »

Also, I would say that being able to tell what system is a ship's target from half a galaxy away is a bit much. Even if you have a ship's _exact_ course I suspect that there are enough stars that you would have no idea where they were going to stop, and also with just a little maneuvering the entire calculation changes.
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Re: Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by Fel »

Ships can't change course in hyperspace using standard jump engines, so once it sets a course and jumps, it's locked into that course. It's just as simple as determining the ship's course and drawing a line, and when it intersects a solar system, there's the destination with 90% accuracy. The only way it's not is if the ship jumps directly through the system on its way to something behind it, and that's not very likely.

And even in reality, you'd be surprised how accurately the military can plot the course and destination of missiles and rockets. That's how anti-missile tech works, as well as the Strategic Command's ability to calculate the targets of an ICBM after it releases its warheads.
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Re: Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by SoronelHaetir »

Oh, I was also thinking that the ship-killers would be a good use for fully remote operation, perhaps even to the point of mounting cheap maneuvering pods of some kind on the weapon. That way you don't have the time wasted in removing the unit from a shuttle. Anything that cuts down the time from touchdown to firing is a very good thing in this situation.

However I would also think that troops from inside the moon-ship are not the biggest danger to troops deploying such a weapon. We have already been told that the Benga do in fact employ space fighters, I would expect there to be some kind of cover patrol. The moon ships have enough armor that I would think the Benga could fire whatever their fighters carry right at their own ships without issue. Enough firepower to kill troops (even armored troops) but not enough to do any more than superficial damage to the ship. And even with the size of the moon-ships it would not take a space fighter long at all to reach such an engagement zone.
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Re: Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by Fel »

The Benga don't utilize fighters in the sense that the Faey and most CCM empires do, but they do have small-scale support capability in their mecha. Their mecha double as their fighters, so in the case where a CCM landing craft got on the hull of one of their ships, their mecha would be the ones to scramble to both attack the landers and engage its fighter escort. They also have corvette-style ground support attack ships, which are almost exclusively used to provide air support for infantry on a planet's surface. They could also use those ships to attack landers on the hull of a super-ship.

Remember, the Benga do not see conventional fightercraft as a threat given the massive size of their ships, so they have no intrinsic defenses built to counter them. They don't keep squadrons of fighters to counter enemy fighters, but if they find themselves in a position where they want to destroy fighters, they send out their mecha, which are capable of space-based operations (Gundam style, their mecha are ground/air/space capable and serve in all three roles. Cost efficiency, cost efficiency, cost efficiency!). They DO see the value in air support for infantry, however, so what they use for that is what they use if they find themselves facing someone who uses fighters.

When the Syndicate engages the CCM in Naval battle, it will be the CCM's fighters against the Syndicate's mecha.
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Re: Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by SYED »

Are the benga mecha actually mechs, or are they more like large suits of iron man armor? Mechs Are more like wearing a tank, while armor enhanced and augemented the user. They would be the equivalent of hulk buster units.
I was just wondering, that torsion diffuser they have for their ships, how small can they scale it? They have torsion guns, but do they have torsion shockwave capability? I know torsion weapons have been really scaled down for fighters. Is there an equivalent for the shockwave unit?
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Re: Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by imthejman85 »

I'm trying to imagine the CCM salvaging a few of those super Capitol ships, putting a beefed up version of the IP armor system on it's outer layer of armor, slapping a hundred GRAF cannons on it, and then slapping the tar out of the Andromeda empires... With the new engines they could probably pick apart whole fleets of Benga and Consortium fleets while just jumping around in short jumps to keep out of combat range. It would be a smaller but more combat oriented version of Kosigi.

Throw in removing the big fat Benga engines and other systems you don't need, replace them with replicators and manufacturing, and you could make all the weapons and such needed right there in the ship. No need to resupply or come in for repairs even. Salvaging those intact super ships opens up a whole new realm of possibilities.
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Re: Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by SYED »

Those epic technologies you mentioned are all proprietary karrine tech. So Jason will pimp one for his house, sharing with the kimdori and possibly that other really advanced race for military action in this galaxcy. He will help the kimdori pimp one out in andromeda to use against the enemy and for future explorations for just them.
Any others he will likely give to the confederation. They are too big and cost for any one nation, but the confederation as a whole can pool their efforts and still make an epic moon ship. Using the most advanced consortium and syndicate tech, as well as other shared academy advanced technologies. The Karrines can go it alone due to their really advanced tech level.
Imagine if it has a one Of those Cybi computer systems, or one of those lesser one like the flag ship has. Those systems would be invaluable in a battle, imagine it as something akin to a mobile Kosigi. Those ships are pretty self sufficient as they were, I bet the karrine could improve on that but what if the confederation can at least improve the systems beyond What the benga use?
In my opinion, the confederation is generally more advanced than the syndicate, and they have far more resources. They won't be refitting many of these huge ships due to the investment in man power if nothing else, but even a couple properly outfitted would be invaluable in the war. Ships would be able to repair and restock in the field, and the ship would be a secure mobile depot for material vital for the military logistics.

I just had an idea, Cybi and her kin are the premier hackers around correct. The empress her self would want their assistance for accessing computer systems. If the kimdori establish a biogenic link to the networks in andromeda, she could so much. Since they have not established a true interstellar networks, due to their refusal to update their tech when something better comes up. They should target specific advanced systems. Those likely to contain military, economical, academic and other vital databases.
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Re: Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by MartinK »

kyli wrote:I thought of something similar while reading, but with rail slugs. I don't doubt that rail cannon slugs would still vaperize at such insane speeds, but they would probably penetrate deeper and do a lot more damage if the system can be installed.
Rail slugs are the modern equivalent of the classic cannonballs. In modern times we stopped using them for professional military applications since we have gotten so advanced that just shooting a big ball of metal at... say a ship won't do much bad to it. Assuming we manage to hit the target, in most places just making a hole from one side straight through to the other side isn't all that damaging. Instead, we use ammunition that explodes a split second after it penetrates the target but hopefully before it exits on the other side. The explosion is the most damaging in that process.

I imagine a rail slug that manages to penetrate the target has no problems to go out the other end as well. Vaporizing of the slug happens when it is stopped violently and suddenly as the kinetic energy has nowhere else to go. If it penetrates, the kinetic energy obviously wasn't spend on vaporizing the slug. But I see potential in following the logic of explosions after penetration as has happened in the human past.

On second thought, to arm rail slugs with that armor implies it isn't just a lump of metal but something more complicated. You have to actually power that armor somehow, which is a first step from rail slug to a full missile.

There are plenty of things that depend on an enclosure strong enough to keep whatever it encloses enclosed. Many ships in science fiction use fusion or fission reactions to power itself. The power available is limited by many things, but one of those things is that you can't actually keep a tiny sun enclosed without the right armor around it and therefore you have to keep the reaction under a specific limit. In many books the reactor was just there and provided power but in the few places that went into more detail, it usually was passive material that was used to build the reactor. The idea to use the actively powered armor to build a reactor comes to mind - which might make power generation much more effective if you can increase the strength of the enclose as the power output increases.

Heh, imagine an Enterprise with a warp core breach that doesn't blow up the ship if you can't throw it overboard quick enough. Although they didn't use fussion or fission reactions I think... ah well, ships blowing up because of power overload is common enough. Where would be the fun in making it impossible to blow up in hairy situations? ;-)
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Re: Conviction, Chapter 7

Post by SYED »

Jason had plans to make rail gun projectiles that were stealthy or able to steer.

The large naval battles remind me of the honor Harrington books, while their warship tech was great, their key advantage were the class of ships their fielded. They had a carrier for the smallest military space vessels and a dedicate missile firing ship. This allowed for a projection of power or even fire power that is unmatched against a more numerous foe. We know fighters will be key here, so it makes me think the ability to use their greater industrial capacity against them by making long distance ammunition in untold numbers. Just see them as fighters that instead of having a pilot in them can have far more explosives.

In Earth Bond, the superiority of carrier ships was mentioned. But it also suggested that some battleships will be brought back into service, made viable by refitting a rail gun to the ship. It greatly extends its range of fire, allowing it to deal with. I was just wondering, if Jason new tech causes the shift to fight combat, similar to the rise of carriers in ocean combat. Would he also develop something akin to the rail gun, that would allow battleships to be viable?
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