Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

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expedient
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by expedient »

MartinK wrote:I disagree. The CMS has been developed to use little power and does not need any sort of big power source to run. It also takes the enemy scanning power and directs it against said scan. So, it won't matter in terms of power plants on a ship.
And yet the copy states in this chapter and others that the KES scout ships and the KMS frigates are the largest ships they can install the CMS systems due to the power requirements being too high on bigger ships. If they are going to use a CMS-based system for active armor then they will need to solve this power issue.
MartinK wrote:The new drive might need lots of power.
So much so that they have had to add a supplemental singularity plant to power the translight drive.
MartinK wrote:Why do you think they should need new power plants?
For the other reasons betatester has covered my thoughts on this very well above. Also a power boost may allow some of the better weapons (such as the new mkII battleship weapon) to move to the smaller ship-classes.
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by MartinK »

expedient wrote:
MartinK wrote:I disagree. The CMS has been developed to use little power and does not need any sort of big power source to run. It also takes the enemy scanning power and directs it against said scan. So, it won't matter in terms of power plants on a ship.
And yet the copy states in this chapter and others that the KES scout ships and the KMS frigates are the largest ships they can install the CMS systems due to the power requirements being too high on bigger ships. If they are going to use a CMS-based system for active armor then they will need to solve this power issue.
Huh, seems I should reread a bit. I seem to remember him cloaking a whole city with the CMS without having to aquire some huge and expensive power source a rebel on a Faey house controlled conquered world would never get their hands on anyway. And a city is certainly a lot bigger than a battlecruiser, even if you just go for the inner city that has the most number of people on the room it offers.
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by expedient »

MartinK wrote:I seem to remember him cloaking a whole city with the CMS...
I believe that the city cloak used holographic emitters. Anyway I needed an excuse to re-read the first book so I might check it out later.

EDIT: He planned to use 2 "Inverse Phase Emitters" or black noise generators, which detect sensor signals and generate a counter-signal at inverse phase to cancel each other out. Jason only used it to hide the sensor returns for materials that should not be there. Plus 24 hologram projectors to fake reproduce the environs. He first made the Inverse Phase Emitter out of parts from his skimmer at his first location. The CMS was a better technology he came up with later to cover active sensors and power emissions from the skimmer.
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by betatester »

That was not a CMS. They took an image of an abandoned city and then put up holo-emmiters to loop that image so orbital image scans still showed an abandoned city. For the active scans; they put something up which deflected the scans back.

But it was not a CMS

The Legion put CMS on only 2 ships; Jason's skimmer and Vultech dropship

Edit: Ninjad :mrgreen:
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by Tuga555 »

My thoughts go on a different direction, more Shadowrun kind of....
Now that the karines/kindori have a presence with real time communications in Andromeda, what would happen if the best cunning financial minds, Kumi, Yilia Trefani, Morildrons etc etc, got together with the Kimdori agents and start some "commercial enterprises"????
Just the selection of some incompetent Benga administrators and help them progress up the ladder could tear the economic progress of vast swats of some corporations, and all of that "within the system"
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by MartinK »

Tuga555 wrote:My thoughts go on a different direction, more Shadowrun kind of....
Now that the karines/kindori have a presence with real time communications in Andromeda, what would happen if the best cunning financial minds, Kumi, Yilia Trefani, Morildrons etc etc, got together with the Kimdori agents and start some "commercial enterprises"????
Just the selection of some incompetent Benga administrators and help them progress up the ladder could tear the economic progress of vast swats of some corporations, and all of that "within the system"
That is an interesting thought. If they get around the danger of being bought out by one of the major enterprise leaders it certainly has potential. On the other hand, if they earn lots of money there, that money would be useless in our galaxy. Any gains from there would also mean that they actively take part in the market of the enemy, thus making that market more lifely and indirectly helping to increase the power of the enemy.

Imagine they got ridiculously wealthy in that societies market and bought out the rights to any and all conquests of the milky way - with the caveat that they would have to finance said conquest before you get any return on your investment. Of course, you wouldn't go out and conquer it, just retaining the rights would mean nobody else goes and conquers it. Although it would look highly suspicious if you never buy up mercenary contracts, warships and/or personal to do that...

That might solve your problems at first, but having earned so much money, the bad guys would directly turn towards another galaxy and plan an invasion. You can't just go and buy them all out, so with your money you just financed the next invasion. Damn!

Oh, and another question is this: If you go and conquer one galaxy after another, you might find something you would rather not in the next one. Perhaps an enemy bend on destruction of any and all species that aren't walking on eight legs, don't lay eggs, can't fly, aren't computers freed of any illogical reasoning and therefore can't be trusted or.... who-knows-what-else? In short, the bad guys stumble upon the worse guys. ;-)
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by kyli »

MartinK wrote:Oh, and another question is this: If you go and conquer one galaxy after another, you might find something you would rather not in the next one. Perhaps an enemy bend on destruction of any and all species that aren't walking on eight legs, don't lay eggs, can't fly, aren't computers freed of any illogical reasoning and therefore can't be trusted or.... who-knows-what-else? In short, the bad guys stumble upon the worse guys. :wink:
Or just stumble across a more peaceful race(s) that are powerful enough to stop you.... like maybe the Confederatation. :wink:.
Speaking of powerful races, I wonder what happened to that race that passed through the home sector some 40000 or so years ago and visited some of the planets, Terra and Draconis among them. I suspect they are long gone but you just never know with Fel :wink: :twisted: :evil:
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by Belgarion213 »

Speaking of powerful races, I wonder what happened to that race that passed through the home sector some 40000 or so years ago and visited some of the planets, Terra and Draconis among them. I suspect they are long gone but you just never know with Fel :wink: :twisted: :evil:
Reapers confirmed for Subjugation universe:)

Though the Karines being contacted by somebody akin to the Star Trek federation (who don't make contact with people till they pass the Warp Barrier) could be interesting.
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by MartinK »

kyli wrote:Or just stumble across a more peaceful race(s) that are powerful enough to stop you.... like maybe the Confederatation. :wink:.
Nah, because the Confederation isn't exactly peaceful. If left alone, they would still try to take each others star systems. Only both the visible and obvious threat of invasion from another galaxy as well as the handholding and nose-leading of Karinne openly and Kimdori behind the scenes made it possible for a political entity they call the Confederation to come into existence.

After it is over the real questions will finally come up. Will the trade agreements, gate travel arangements and interdictor deployments be able to hold the Confederation as a real political entity together? How many races will remain, how many will see more advantages in leaving?

But back to your comment, kyli. For the bad guys to just stumble upon a more peaceful race will be boring. Natural selection also prefers the more aggressiv species above the peaceful ones. Archeological sciences tell us that the most peaceful species that developed only survived because they had so many offspring that loosing most before they grew to adulthood did not matter. And you just had to be bigger than everybody else, so nobody was stupid enough to attack you when healthy and young. Well, you could also be faster than whatever hunted you to survive.

Humanity was neither of that, we were instead aggressiv and intelligent. Although we developed out of treedwellers that ate fruits, when we came down from the trees we also started to eat meat. Anything big enough was hunted by humans. And if it hunted us back? Well, then that was what we killed whenever we saw it. Most large hunters are endangered species. Most big meat animals are also either domesticated or reduced by large numbers. We are even so aggressive that we hunt and kill others of our own kind not of our group. Territorial animals are satisfied with running unpopular visitors out of their territory, end of story. We are so aggressive, we have become one of the biggest reasons for a mass extinction event on Earth. Going into space will probably be a question of survival sooner or later.
Belgarion213 wrote:Though the Karines being contacted by somebody akin to the Star Trek federation (who don't make contact with people till they pass the Warp Barrier) could be interesting.
Although I liked watching most episodes of Star Trek, whatever flavour, I never thought it realistic for a society without money to exist. Without monetary compensation much of what motivates people is gone. I can understand scientists, even today they are often motivated by respect, fame and naturally curiosity. I can understand explorers. But who goes out in unarmed freighters to sit around waiting until you arrive and knowing that there are pirates that kill freighter crews. And let's not get started with how convenient it is that all races around you are at most on your technology level, but never more advanced - despite all the old vanished civilizations that left godlike artifacts behind.

So, although quite a nice piece of entertainment, a United Federation of Planets can't exist as depicted.
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Belgarion213
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by Belgarion213 »

True enough about the federation. Also remember the thing that human's had was endurance. We quite literally ran animals to death and then ate them because while a lot of animals are FASTER than human's, we just kept going and going and going.
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by SYED »

I am hoping for some Robin Hood action in andromeda, it would mess with those in charge and improve their reputation wit hose lower in the class. They should ask the banks of Morison for the best white collar crooks around. They could really mess with those businesses.
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by Belgarion213 »

The problem with white collar espionage is that in the goverment system we know the Syndicate operates at, there are probably a lot of people looking for things like that (because if you advance by knocking the guy above you out of the loop I'm assuing corporations advance by knocking other corporations down). More, the time frame involved. I mean its viable but how big an impact its going to have on an empire that controls 70% of a galaxy...

Also I question how much the 'lower classes' even KNOW about the Milky Way expedition. Oh I'm sure lots of people do, but the layman on the street? They probably think that ships are just off to fight the Consortium again, rather than know about the Karines or the Confederation.

But yeah, some white collar/Shadowrun style things going on in Andromeda would be fairly awesome. Even if its not going to bring the empire down, with the Kimdori over there to point out secret research projects, or weakness's and then some people to hit research bases and the like...they could do quite a bit of damage. As I sadi, not enough to topple the empire but if they could delay the Syndicate Victory over the Consortium...though the morals of that would be rather questionable with the Syndicate preforming Base Delta Zero (aka total planetary purge) on planets they don't think they can keep.
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by SYED »

Those planet killing devices the syndicate has on every world' can they be altered instead of just knocked out? No one in the confederation would ever really consider activating them to burn worlds. But if the effect could be altered, simply in a way that would consume their resources greatly, then such a crippling strike would be used.
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by kyli »

The karinnes and Kimdori will have to be careful. An ruthless empire in control of 30 million terrestrial systems will not hesitate to destroy a few systems once they are no longer profitable. It will be difficult to even put a dent in their economy I think without a nearly full out attack.
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Re: Conviction, chapter 4 [spoilers]

Post by SYED »

What if the machine designed to burn worlds simply started to cause lots of storms? And they happened just when it would cause a big loss of profit for a specific company. Hiding sabotage as corporate infighting would be an advantage. The more they spend on internal conflicts, the less will be assigned for external ones.
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