Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

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Fel
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by Fel »

gnume wrote:
Fel wrote:Not directly to his chip, but Cybi isn't just her core crystal either. New chips can be added to his systems to expand his capabilities.
why not if i may ask ? as as what written the karinnes have technology to manipulate matter on the atomic scale (by whats written it used in manufacturing CBIMs core crystal) so why can it bu used to attached or grow additional unprogrammed biogenic matter to rooks existing structure without damaging it if i may ask ?
The key of it there is "unprogrammed." Biogenic chips can't be created to be blank, they have to be programmed during growth. For Rook to have additional chip capacity added to him would require him to be completely re-written, and that would destroy what is now.

Biogenic chips can't be repaired either, unless they're of a certain size and class. Rook can't be repaired because his chip is too small, but Cybi's core can. In fact, only mainframe-level biogenic chips can be repaired. All others have to be replaced and the chip's biogenic crystal recycled. This is much like our own electronics. You can't repair the microchip that went bad, but you can replace it with a new one.

Every biogenic chip is made to spec, and built to serve a pre-programmed purpose. That's where the main bottleneck in Karinne production is, the fact that they can't make "blank" chips and program them after production to plug them wherever they need to go. A chip has to be made for a specific task (though that "task" might allow it to be placed in thousands of different devices).

Think back to the number of times in the story when Jason or Myleena reference getting specific chips from the Shimmer Dome. This is why.

The only way Rook could be "expanded" the way you're thinking is to embed his chip into a larger chip, where he's the core that controls the external chip's functions. But they'll remain two separate chips. In effect, make him a micro-CBIM where he's the core controlling all the external systems.

And I'm surprised you guys are so interested in Rook. ;)
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gnume
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by gnume »

sorry but i still do not get why it cant be done from a technical point of view
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kyli
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by kyli »

Fel wrote: And I'm surprised you guys are so interested in Rook. ;)
Are u kidding?? Rook is awesome!!! I hope we see more of him. :)
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Fel
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by Fel »

Simply put: you cannot "add on" to a biogenic chip because they are "locked in" at creation. To change it by trying to add on to it would destroy it. Biogenic chips behave like ROM, not RAM. You burn it, it stays that way forever. Try to change the ROM, you destroy the ROM.

First and foremost, understand this fact: a biogenic chip's programming cannot be changed once it's been encoded into the chip except in the most unusual and rare circumstances, or if it's a mainframe/CBIM core crystal.

A biogenic chip's programming tells it where every molecule on the chip is and what it's supposed to do...change those molecules around, and now the chip's programming has no idea where things are or how to make things work. It writes off every part of its chip that isn't the way it was programmed to believe it is a a "bad sector" the way a HDD does and ignores it, which would defeat the purpose of trying to add to the chip in the first place. But that isn't even possible with a biogenic chip, because trying to add on to it would destroy the programmed DNA encoding of the chip.

I think you seem to think that a biogenic chip is made up of its DNA programming and a whole lot of empty space. This is not the case. The non-DNA segments of the chip serve as storage and processing, but the DNA within the chip is interlaced through the entire chip and takes up a lot of its internal structure. These DNA program helixes are BIG in relation to the size of the chip, and the more complicated the chip is, the bigger its DNA programmig is. A biogenic chip doesn't have a "nucleus" where the DNA is, the DNA is spread through the chip in a structure that allows the DNA programming to oversee the chip's functions in a non-centralized manner. Trying to change or alter this structure damages the encoded DNA programming, which effectively destroys the chip, since its programming is now damaged.

The only way to alter or change a biogenic chip after it's been grown and have it still at least partially operate is if it self-mutates, as in the case of Rook. Every other case, the chip has a breakdown and ceases operation.

Oh, I forgot to mention: chips CAN alter some of their own operations on a limited basis, this is how they learn...but this behavior is driven by the chip's own DNA, and it has to know about it to get any use out of it. The chip has to be the one that does it, it can't be applied by an outside force. If it doesn't lay a new lattice pathway itself, which is how chips learn, it has no idea how to use that new lattice pathway. This behavior also exists in biology, particularly in our own brains.

Go look up instances where people who were blind at birth have their sight restored once they're adults, and you'll get an idea of how this phenomenon works.

Rook will alter its chip's lattice pathways as it learns, representing the permanent addition of new information that the chip's DNA encoding can access, but for Rook to get anything out of its learning, it has to do this on its own. This is why Rook makes a distinction between "downloading" information and "learning" information. As Rook learns, its lattice pathways will change to represent the things it has learned, but its core DNA encoded programming will not. Rook can learn new skills and learn new information, can learn to expand its chip's capabilities, but it can never get smarter in the realm of increasing its IQ because it's limited by the unchanging DNA encoded programming in its chip.

You may say "well, this IS changing the chip!" And you're right. But you're not adding anything onto it. The chip is changing ITSELF, it knows how it's changed itself and how to work with these changes, and if you try to change the chip by external tampering, all you're gonna do is screw up the chip. Rook will learn and grow over time, but only if everyone gives it the chance to do so on its own. But it will always be restricted by and limited to the capabilities of its DNA-encoded programming.
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gnume
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by gnume »

ok. that not what i ment.
it is told in the chapter that rook can change him self internal. what i was thinking is it may be possible to coat rooks surface with the correct ATOMS so he can absorb them and grow that way as he can change his internal structure.
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Fel
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by Fel »

Yeah, read my edit, I hit post before I wrote about that part. ;)
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by Radar »

Fel wrote:Trans-light drives are the most sophisticated, fastest, and energy efficient of all the various forms of FTL drive technology in the Subjugation universe, and the Karinnes will learn a great deal from taking one apart and studying it.
Wait, you mean the Karinnes will win their battle with the Hrathari?! Spoilers!
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by kyli »

Chapter 9 starts on November 8 and ends on November 26. Chapter 10 starts on November 10. So either this is a mistake or Fel sneaked time travel into the story somewhere when I wasn't looking.
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by mjkj »

kyli wrote:
Fel wrote: And I'm surprised you guys are so interested in Rook. ;)
Are u kidding?? Rook is awesome!!! I hope we see more of him. :)
Seconded :D
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Fel
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by Fel »

kyli wrote:Chapter 9 starts on November 8 and ends on November 26. Chapter 10 starts on November 10. So either this is a mistake or Fel sneaked time travel into the story somewhere when I wasn't looking.
It's probably a typo somewhere. I'll take a look and see what day it's supposed to be, and make sure chapter 11 starts on the right day. ;)
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Catawk
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by Catawk »

It looks like you put November instead of December, because the other dates are about a month ahead.
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Fel
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by Fel »

And that would be it. Sorry about that, guys. Just imagine that it's December and carry on.
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by SYED »

That race that is crazy about cybernetics, how would they react to biocybernetics, enhanced organic limbs . That race is about as advanced in cybernetics as the imperium, but the imperium has also developed the ability to produce and attach organic replacements. So using the new tech, and both version of limb tech, either adapt existing wetware to a person, or replace them with new bio limbs that have been enhanced. There are all these transhumanism ideas on how a body could be enhanced, by altering the biology or implanting cybernetic systems, possibly more wetware, in a vessels.

If you think about it, in a way, that system collapse cybi had was kind of a birthing process, that there was chaos as the AI was going into labor. What were the AI prophecies again, we have a new contender for it, the new challenger of Rook? I wonder if he will eventually get a proper humanoid android form. Could they even give him an organic form?implant his crystal in an artifially produced clone body? We know we can not add biogenic crystals to Rook, but what about other computer hardware? Is there any he is not compatible with?

This Hyper light FTL, you travel in real space but surrounded by light from hyperspace. Are the ships vulnerable to energy or matter in such a state? The other alternate FTL was only affected to a limited range of energy weaponry, so I wonder if the same effect was here. The Mass FTL could be used with hyperspace jumps. So can hyper light be combined with one or even both forms of FTL. Do we know the speeds of these forms seperately or even combined? It seems ships use hyper, then they would use one of the other ftl systems to travel, so doers the light ftl work with the mass FTL. We need to know their speeds seperatly, then together. Currently it is a 2 year journey to andromeda correct, so any improvement on this would be awesome. The one issue, would the enemy see the ships coming from here?
This discovery unfortunately threatens the safety of indicted systems. The Mass FTL is largly unknown and limited to catapults. Due to speeds and constraints, there is a good chance any fleet or force would be seen and dealt with before they were even launched. The hyperlight system shakes the foundations of security. This tech is far more known even in a lesser form, the basics are out there. If the enemy realises this, they would have an easier time to breech their security.
How linked is this hyperlight and hyperdrive systems? Could they both be engine and catapult based? Could they ever use the indictor field to jump out or able to by pass it? they need to create a counter measure for the alternative FTL systems, as system security is a key fact for the confederation
so 1 light year in 40 minuites, that is speedy, what was the mass ftl speed.
I am hoping these FTL systems can be adapted for missiles, I enjoy Harrington books, so the idea of a fleet destroyed by a missile storm is epic. Missiles cant not be dealt with by telepaths, and their industries could provide untold numbers to overwhelm the enemy.

I had an idea about the Nebula that they stranded the last of the consortium forces. Could they install a stargate in there with an indictor perhaps, but stealthed. They fill the nebula with satelities and mines and traps. They can use it as a secret enterance/trap. The enemy might attempt to enter, but it might be filled with stealth ships waiting to strike. Even if they reach their prize, it might blow. Also due to the sizre of the nebula lot of space to watch if they attempt to contain it. Those stealth frigates could patrol the space one shotting the enemy every time they attempt to get close.

Why would the anti torsion system target was 75% again, it is the range to make it ineffective correct. Now they will adapt it to be unidirectional, would that strengthen the effect or weaken it. I wonder how many ships or races can have this system. Imagine the balance o power if some were limited to how much protection they could gain. This device is said to mess with some spartial tech correct, could adaptions from the ion empires made to deal with the lack of s[partial tech work? The torsion diffuser, could it be placed on a frigate, to allow it some more security?
Say frigate were set up in groupd to travel with carriers. The carriers are less stealthy, but they could be where supplies could be stored and people rest and medical could be. Carriers and fighter locate and draw in the enemy for the frigates to assualt.

The 1000 ship fleet, do we know how many stayed at home or other posts. I am thinking that these might be all the remaining hyperlight capable ships. A follow on strike could be to target and destroy that empire catapult network. If they are unable to move their ships and meet their logistical demands, they would risk their prizes in the colonies. Add to the list of targets their tachyon relay network. If weakened enough, they would not only not risk attack them, but any of the local empires as they could loose alot. especially if the relay network is struck first so the reports of catapults being lost are not known til it is too late. The core systems are too defended, but heir colonies could easily be swept up by their neighbors, especially as they are currently in a war. are they fighting the empire, the religous one or the other non alliance ? Those stealth ships could prove their worth by practising strikes on the infrastructure of these poor fool. Plant some hyperspace probes so they can track ship movements, then send in the those CMS capable ships to strike at the relays and catapults. Their su[erior hyperspace engines, would make them faster than the empire could react. There are said to be 200 of those ships in the future, in a day they could hit over 1000 targets.
Even though thoses ships are the older type due to their engines, how much of the Ion technology would they have? THere are a couple or so things that interest the karrine, the catapults, ion tech, how they dealt with lack of spatial tech, and the hyperlight ftl efficientcy.

If light can pass into hyprspace, can they use that to harm the enemy? Lasers are light, those collector gather energy some of it light into a weapon. Could something go into hyperspace and harm them? probes can be put into hyper, can mines?

Why dont the academy start a competition wher the challenge is make old tech useful again? like the railguns, and hyperlight. I can see any alternative ftl being experimented with
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by konman »

A Jacked rigger can control an exomech with no delays, could they not use that technology to have a pilot operate a fighter craft? One built with no passenger compartment and able to handle much higher g-forces and larger weapons and powerplant in place of a cockpit and life support.
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Re: Inception, chapter 10 [Spoilers]

Post by ettoren »

It should certainly be possible, but.... One of the reasons the Faey are so dominant is that their military is almost universally telepathic and are able to mentally dominate their enemies. Taking jacked riggers/pilots out of the cockpit and putting them in remotes makes sense from a personnel survivability standpoint but it would also weaken the offensiveness of the mech.
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