Inception 4 [Spoilers]

[Wolfee]

Another excellent chapter by Fel! Can you say ACTION!

This is a action packed non-stop chapter, just makes me wonder what the next chapters in this story are going to be like and if Fel will be doing any jumping forward in time as we have what two years before the next actual enemy shows up?

[Rabblerouser]

I'll have to confess to not yet having read Subjugation books iv onwards so sorry if I have missed something relevant but I have quickly thumbed through Inception ch 04 and say that these Jacks are giving me a bad feeling.

Has anybody read any works by John Hemry aka Jack Cambell because in his Stark Series a similar setup is used but 'Jacks' are quickly abandoned as they leave a user vulnerable to exploitation. Now that they can receive things what is to stop a 'virus' being transmitted into their brains?

In Stark it was called the Joker Virus because it made people laugh but the apparently unintended consequence was that they laughed themselves to death.

Could Cybi use these to remotely read everybody’s minds and turn this into a terminator style moment?

The first rule of computer safety is don't own a computer
The second is don't turn it on.

This could be a massive vulnerability being introduced here.

I have got to get a free moment to catch up on my reading.

*sighs*

[kyli]

Why not just use a wormhole to get all the way to Andromeda? Just send a few unmanned ships through, each towing a biogenic stargate that will let Cybi link them way faster. Only one ship needs to make it through and no lives would be lost. It would let them send more Kimdori and even warships if they are needed. And it could be a way of retreat. I know the cost for the stargates would be high, especially if you risk losing them, but in my opinion, the benefits outwiegh the risk.

[Fel]

Why not just use a wormhole to get all the way to Andromeda? Just send a few unmanned ships through, each towing a biogenic stargate that will let Cybi link them way faster. Only one ship needs to make it through and no lives would be lost. It would let them send more Kimdori and even warships if they are needed. And it could be a way of retreat. I know the cost for the stargates would be high, especially if you risk losing them, but in my opinion, the benefits outwiegh the risk.

A stargate is a frightfully large and dreadfully expensive piece of very delicate hardware, they wouldn't be able to fit one into a wormhole even if they were willing to risk it.

[SYED]

I hope they also sent scouts to the other nearby galaxies, just so not everything is down to war. Also, a way to keep ahead of the other races.
WHile they can not have a star gate in the enemy galaxcy? THey could build jammers for the galactic morse code. I wonder what their knowledge of hyperspace will allow for greater use of the hyperspace vibrations. Mess up their system, might be best to place such a system in a region they can not reach, like a radiation filled system. I wonder if they will attempt to spread the infiltrator spiders to the planetary destruction systems in that galaxcy, so when the time comes they are not forced to destroy planets to deal with the enemy.
THe tachyon ftl comm system, sound like something he could share with the other races.
The jack system will allow the non telepathic races a chance at a similar skill. I hope they eventually create full immersion systems similar to the matrix. I wonder if they would be a solution to hyperspace travel, simply dive into a jack world, while jumping, and the mind can avoid it. any chance it will help speed up learn knowledge or skills. That way they can uplift and expand their people.
Also, dont forget the television aspect, there are those that would pay so they can watch games as if they were there, even in another system. THey could get front line seats even. Why watch a screen when it can go straight to your mind.
Imagine classes using jacks, instead of in a class room, they could create lessons where the students are immersed in the subject, and get a far more visual view of the topic.

So they will be turning the former enemy stronghold into their own. I suppose with out that big cannon and a fleet, it would be hard to invade. I bet such locations are being taken over by other races, with the introduction of indiction and gates.
DO we have a dead line to the two invasion forces? It is currently in years correct. SO plenty of time to hunt down any survivng energy beings left here. I hope all the warships get destroyed, but part of me hopes that the civilians can be captured. A moral victory for the confederation. THey can be used to populate dead or terraforming worlds.

The stargates are propietary imperial technology, so I wonder if they can be improved on, say away to link planets, so allow a person to use a train system to travel. THere was a list of technology that the imperium developed after the karrines were destroyed, while they belong to the imperium, could they be used as a foundation to create better tech. AAlso collect he enemy tech and try to improve on it, the karrines had to share the tech the aliens already had, not what they developed.
WHat if you inflate an asteroid and refit the interior to produce a worm hole to another gate? SImilar to how the moon was made hollow.

Mars and venus could both potentially be made habitable, due to the importance of terra, it might be a good idea to do some terraforming to increase space there for settlement. It would help if they made planetary stargates, and dumped some of venus atmosphere on to mars.

[kyli]

DO we have a dead line to the two invasion force is currently in years correct. SO plenty of time to hunt down any survivng energy beings left here. I hope all the warships get destroyed, but part of me hopes that the civilians can be captured. A moral victory for the confederation. THey can be used to populate dead or terraforming worlds.

I thought all the energy beings were killed. 1 on Karis, 1 on the first nebula attack, and 2 when the wormhole exploded, right?

The Consortium are desperate, not evil, so I also hope that the civilians are captured, but I am worried about what the Jun would do if the Confederation captured the civilians instead of killing them. Their views about war are pretty extreme.

As does mention at the end of chapter 4 that her scouts are 2.45 years from andromena and that the Syndicate will arrive 53 days later. I suspect however that she uses feay years, not earth years.

[Fel]

I'll have to confess to not yet having read Subjugation books iv onwards so sorry if I have missed something relevant but I have quickly thumbed through Inception ch 04 and say that these Jacks are giving me a bad feeling.

Has anybody read any works by John Hemry aka Jack Cambell because in his Stark Series a similar setup is used but 'Jacks' are quickly abandoned as they leave a user vulnerable to exploitation. Now that they can receive things what is to stop a 'virus' being transmitted into their brains?

In Stark it was called the Joker Virus because it made people laugh but the apparently unintended consequence was that they laughed themselves to death.

Could Cybi use these to remotely read everybody’s minds and turn this into a terminator style moment?

The first rule of computer safety is don't own a computer
The second is don't turn it on.

This could be a massive vulnerability being introduced here.

I have got to get a free moment to catch up on my reading.

*sighs*

Guess you get a cookie, cause this is exactly what several members of the Siann think. They see the jack as a way Jason can control Dahnai, and it does get addressed in chapter 5.

btw, no, Cybi couldn't use the jack to control anyone, nor could anyone else. They wire primarily into the cognative, sensory, and memory centers of the brain, not into the behavioral parts of the brain, and are further limited in that they can't overwrite existing organic memory. They can only add new memories into the brain, but can't delete ones already there (though a telepath can erase memory). A jack might be used to induce a hallucination and use that as extortion (do this or the spiders comes back), but that's about it.

They were specifically designed to prevent the jack from being used to exert outside control over the jacked individual, and it includes both hardware (lack of jack connectivity to behavior centers, thus being unable to force behavior) and software (programming in the control chip embedded in the jack that prevents jack data from disrupting natural brain function).

Oooooor, you get addicted to the artificial sensory overload induced by jack-fed artificial senses when the limiters are removed.

[expedient]

Thinking long term, the Karinnes need another fail-safe option for survival as the Generations are no longer secret and everyone in the sector thinks they know roughly where they can get hold of all their knowledge i.e. from Cybi.

So plan B, in the next twenty years or so, Jason sets up a secret planet/base where a backup and a viable population or set of samples are held.

Plan C, in the next fifty to sixty years, they could build some kind of evacuation system like an ark. Ready to deploy quickly with large populations, say five million, either as samples or in hibernation. I would see these as several city ships (like Atlantis in Stargate) highly automated and able to be controlled by a single CBIM and constantly updated with the latest hyperspace engines / wormhole drive. In the worst case they head off to distant galaxies, ready to start building as soon as they arrive.

[Rabblerouser]

Guess you get a cookie, cause this is exactly what several members of the Siann think. They see the jack as a way Jason can control Dahnai, and it does get addressed in chapter 5.

Yay
Thank You they taste great.

Thanks for the preview!

btw, no, Cybi couldn't use the jack to control anyone, nor could anyone else. They wire primarily into the cognative, sensory, and memory centers of the brain, not into the behavioral parts of the brain, and are further limited in that they can't overwrite existing organic memory. They can only add new memories into the brain, but can't delete ones already there (though a telepath can erase memory). A jack might be used to induce a hallucination and use that as extortion (do this or the spiders comes back), but that's about it.

Or distract an enemy in combat?

They were specifically designed to prevent the jack from being used to exert outside control over the jacked individual, and it includes both hardware (lack of jack connectivity to behavior centers, thus being unable to force behavior) and software (programming in the control chip embedded in the jack that prevents jack data from disrupting natural brain function).

Oooooor, you get addicted to the artificial sensory overload induced by jack-fed artificial senses when the limiters are removed.

So somebody could create a new version that looks similar and implant it into the behavioral areas so that they could do something similar to the 'memory virus' thing? The 'victim'/puppet would probably know something was up but the details could be witheld from them.

Thinking long term, the Karinnes need another fail-safe option for survival as the Generations are no longer secret and everyone in the sector thinks they know roughly where they can get hold of all their knowledge i.e. from Cybi.

So plan B, in the next twenty years or so, Jason sets up a secret planet/base where a backup and a viable population or set of samples are held.

Plan C, in the next fifty to sixty years, they could build some kind of evacuation system like an ark. Ready to deploy quickly with large populations, say five million, either as samples or in hibernation. I would see these as several city ships (like Atlantis in Stargate) highly automated and able to be controlled by a single CBIM and constantly updated with the latest hyperspace engines / wormhole drive. In the worst case they head off to distant galaxies, ready to start building as soon as they arrive.

Except that if Terra wanted to they could create their own Generations and remove any trouble for Karis. The key tech missing so far is Talent suppression and I suspect that if biogenics can amplify talent then it is also possible to supress them (the opposite of amplify the word escapes my mind at present).

When will humanity create an injection that supresses, either permanently or temporarily, talent? It should be a priority for Terra and would horrify the faey who might finally begin to understand humans.

If these steps were taken then the threat the generations faced would be lowered. The Karrines are already endangering themselves by refusing to share new tech and have now deveoped expansion plans. Capturing new toys will soon become second to stopping the Karrines as they will soon generate envy and friction. As Jason stated the old ones were becoming 'Master Race' and the Karrine sense of superiority does not seem to have faded. You cannot disinvent something and therefore somebody else knowing it is possible will come up with it. You might end up with a PC vs Mac situation.

A Stargate positioned out in the void between galaxies seems a first practical step. Fixing up Kosigi to have engines like Halo's Requeim is another alternative.

[SYED]

I was just thinking is it possible to have a mobile colony, possibly not using the hyper drive, but what about the alternative FTL they planned to use to get to Karis. Even if they cant make it FTL, if they make it mobile enough to travel between systems, it would be worth it. I am not thinking of a mobile station, I am thinking of something like a McKendree cylinder, which offers a livable surface area the size of russia. A mobile colony that stays in deep space would be incredibly difficult to attack, especially with indictors on board.
With the example of the moon base, will people attempt something smaller and inflate asteroids? Using the tech that created those light focusing weapons jason had, could be possible.
Terraforming planets would be great challenge for the academy, as it requires a unique plan for each one. a great service to offer the different races, it would allow them to expand with out fighting for planets. Also, it would be a way to get them to spend money on something else than weapons.

While the jack is currently made to be safe, can it be altered or replaced with one that can harm the host? is it really that difficult to make one to control, spy hack or alter the host body? karrine tech could do this but how many races can build and implant such devices? can they be detected or hidden once implanted?
i can see it eventually able to download info and/or skills into a mind. At the very least speed up the learn of such info or skills.

Could some one please help me with two lists?
Tech the imperium created after the loss of karis. We know stargates were a solution to some karrine technology, so the other stuff might have some useful hybrid applications.
Tech that the extragalactic invader have or use. This stuff might get shared, but with their advanced sciences, they could create something superior, to allow them to keep the advantage.

[Evodavich]

Just finshed ch 4 and Fel ur an evil guenis

aldo i saw that u used my idea about railguns. Heres a new idea for u a 200 ton rail round that is mostly hollow but also full of missles, it has a solid core and then 150 one ton missleis that get lunched before the core part hits its target, am sure people are goin thats supid just fire missles but rail rounds can be stelthed so super long range stleth missle deplyment .

Also got to ask how are rail rounds stored, are the premade be fore battle or replicated ???

[Hillybob]

Why not just use a wormhole to get all the way to Andromeda? Just send a few unmanned ships through, each towing a biogenic stargate that will let Cybi link them way faster. Only one ship needs to make it through and no lives would be lost. It would let them send more Kimdori and even warships if they are needed. And it could be a way of retreat. I know the cost for the stargates would be high, especially if you risk losing them, but in my opinion, the benefits outwiegh the risk.

A stargate is a frightfully large and dreadfully expensive piece of very delicate hardware, they wouldn't be able to fit one into a wormhole even if they were willing to risk it.

I thought they had different sizes of Stargates? I know when Jason was going to buy one from Dahnai he specified one large enough for a capitol ship. Couldn't they build a smaller one that folded up then send that one through the wormhole and then the small stargate to transport a larger one, also folded? On a related note, it seems that if Myleena could get the patchwork wormhole system the Kimdori used to 80% effectiveness that something purpose built could push the effectiveness up to the mid/high 90's range. I doubt it would get to 100% but is anything really 100%? I don't see the need for it right now for Andromeda but the combined tech would make exploration/expansion much easier. They could scout way beyond their current range.

[SYED]

Stargates are space based structure, so the smallest would be there to accommodate those air/space planes they have.
They could balloon asteroids, then build the gate inside. With a lesser need on hyperspace, smaller ships can be used to transport civilian goods.
They would be secure, and difficult to take.
I wonder how far karrine science can project a wormhole if they wanted to make a true long distance device. THeir scout ship could produce something to recieve or help it, just not another gate.
The karrines have the best replicators out there, so why not use that to get rich, on a large scales, build enough of they to feed the full market of all the confederation. The funds would help them create an aweesome fleet.

If they can cheeply balloon asteroids, they could build settlements easily for mining systems.
Since earth is pretty safe, consider building orbital elevatoors and possibly an orbital ring. just to show off the skill of the academy. there are plenty of space hapitats they could build, to show off their skills, the bigger the better.

[Wolfee]

Stargates are space based structure, so the smallest would be there to accommodate those air/space planes they have.
They could balloon asteroids, then build the gate inside. With a lesser need on hyperspace, smaller ships can be used to transport civilian goods.
They would be secure, and difficult to take.
I wonder how far karrine science can project a wormhole if they wanted to make a true long distance device. THeir scout ship could produce something to recieve or help it, just not another gate.
The karrines have the best replicators out there, so why not use that to get rich, on a large scales, build enough of they to feed the full market of all the confederation. The funds would help them create an aweesome fleet.

If they can cheeply balloon asteroids, they could build settlements easily for mining systems.
Since earth is pretty safe, consider building orbital elevatoors and possibly an orbital ring. just to show off the skill of the academy. there are plenty of space hapitats they could build, to show off their skills, the bigger the better.

Cheaply balloon asteroids huh... someone has been reading John Ringo's LFD series!

[lapland]

The Kerrines have the money to build all the ships they need. Problem is they don't have the people to man them. But I do wonder.... if a CBIM can be put on a Capital ship couldn't it control a whole fleet of ships automatically if its near centient AI? You could have one Generation connected from Keris through communion boosting when needed. Otherwise its patrolling an area and enforcing rule of law. Put a couple dozen of these battle groups together and watch out.