Chap 8 Spoilers

[Hearly]

Ok fel, very very nice chapter, honestly I'd love to see the war in writing, It would be cool to see how they will defeat them.

[Lokis Advisor]

Dear Lords,
Fel...you are as you say an evil rat Barst****d.
I belive that you have surpased the Ch 18 clifhanger that you mentioned.

Now I have got that out of the way...Thank you very much.

I hope that the forthcomming war is as promising as the buildup.

Once again, Thank you and WOW.

[boballab]

The way Fel left it right after the Consortium "outed" the Karinnes there is now another angle where the Main Character could get killed from: Another Faey. You have to expect some type of backlash somewhere inside the Imperium and it could come home to roost on Dahnai because of her close ties to House Karinne. This could be a false lead but remember Fel mentioned that House Trefani just lost a Chunk of their money making operations due to the Interdictors so you know Yila isn't happy and she is smart enough to know those things had to come from the Karinnes. If she wants revenge she can't get to Jason directly on Karis, so she might try to be sneaky and make a deal with the Consortium and with their backing make a go at Dahnai counting on the promises of the Consortium made in their announcement.

[zedd]

Smart Feys will remember the 30000 ships coming. They will understand that they need the Karinnes to defeat them. I think they will only try to kill Karinne after the 30000 ships are dealt with.
Or, some can believe that if they abandon the Karinnes they will be left in peace and pressure Dahnai (or go so far as trying to kill her) to abandon the Karinnes.

Awful of your part Fel, this cliff-hanger is evil, pure blackness, and I can hear your laugher all the way from here

[Hearly]

Smart Feys will remember the 30000 ships coming. They will understand that they need the Karinnes to defeat them. I think they will only try to kill Karinne after the 30000 ships are dealt with.
Or, some can believe that if they abandon the Karinnes they will be left in peace and pressure Dahnai (or go so far as trying to kill her) to abandon the Karinnes.

Awful of your part Fel, this cliff-hanger is evil, pure blackness, and I can hear your laugher all the way from here

You know there has to be parallel's in faey similar to our own dealing with tyrants Promising to leave so and so alone with it just being a rouse to allow them to kill there enemies in turn...

I don't think the Faey or any other race in the sector really believe the promise of Neutrality will be honored if they destroy the faey...

[afrigeek]

A person cannot be the head of a house like Trefani and not be smart. There is no way someone in such a house would believe the nonsense the consortium are spouting. Cleansing the galaxy? Yeah right!! Anyone at that point would just wonder why in the first place they didn't offer help to the imperium to deal with the Karinnes right from the beginning instead of allying with the Urumi and then backstabbing them if they were really pure in their motives.

[Mad Monk]

A person cannot be the head of a house like Trefani and not be smart. There is no way someone in such a house would believe the nonsense the consortium are spouting. Cleansing the galaxy? Yeah right!! Anyone at that point would just wonder why in the first place they didn't offer help to the imperium to deal with the Karinnes right from the beginning instead of allying with the Urumi and then backstabbing them if they were really pure in their motives.

Think of how often our own polititians use a public excuse for their actions. WMD's anyone?

[zedd]

Think of how often our own polititians use a public excuse for their actions. WMD's anyone?

They weren't facing 30000 enemy ships. They know that whatever the bed they make, they won't be the ones sleeping in it sadly so.

[Hearly]

Something I just picked up.. at the end of the chapter fel says

"The keys to the future lie buried within the past."

I wonder what he means? did the Old House Have some type of run in with them previously?

[Mysterious]

Really just fight propaganda with propaganda

Just subtly remind the general populace into some "talking heads" program that if the Consortium were truely "honourable" why did they backstabb the Urumi? Would they truly destroy Cybi and the Karinnes as they have proclaimed? Or would they enslave them for their own ends with the rest of the Faey population thrown into the bargain? If the Karinnes figured out how to make these computers and changed themselves to be able to fully utilise their creations why wouldn't they experiment on the captured non-generation Faey to see how to make it work? 30 000 ships? Prove it.

When they attack the populace will believe it then but right now it's just a claim that they do not have to verify. Plus watching the largest fleet force attacking the Faey-Collective Alliance then getting its head handed back to them would give a real boost to morale.

Actions speak louder than words and they did backstabb the Urumi. An extremely stupid thing to do to most people's thinking.




Mysterious

[dellstart]

Something I just picked up.. at the end of the chapter fel says

"The keys to the future lie buried within the past."

I wonder what he means? did the Old House Have some type of run in with them previously?

Ditto.This bothered me as well.

Well ,I have to at least reread this a second time before I can begin to comment, but I couldn't let that one pass.Good observation.

[Mizriath]

Thanks FEL.

A cliffhanger that will have me on the edges of my seat waiting for the next book.... I have not dwelt to look into the clues you always bury somewhere.... as I am enjoying the chapter greatly... and then it stop short of the war. You have cold blood in your veins. :

I would vote for Saelle to be killed but not because i don't like her .... just that it will greatly affect Jason. And hmmm another kid between Jason and Yana.

[boballab]

The best example from earth history of someone believing what they wanted to get something would be Stalin believing Hitlers promises that he wouldn't attack Russia if Stalin would split Poland with him. Hitler also told good ole Joe that he wouldn't interfere if the Soviets marched into the small Baltic countries like Lithuania and he would give the Sov's Finland. Now to become the head of the Soviet Union at that time you had to have certain qualities: Ruthlessness, cunning, ambiton but definitely one thing not on that list is stupidity. So why did Uncle Joe believe Hitler? Because he wanted to take over Finland so much that he heard what he wanted to hear, even though by this point everyone knew that Hitler broke his word everytime he gave it.

So Yila Trefani's house is not the typical Faey house, it is the Faey version of the Mafia or Yakuza. So she must be Ruthless, cunning, ambitious and pissed off at Jason and Dahnai. So is it out of the realm of possibility she would hear what she wants to hear from the consortium even though everyone knows they backstab their partners?

Now onto that tag line at the end.
Someone asked if maybe the Karinnes came across them before. Well also think of what the Consortium said in their procalmation:

Karinnes created this abomination against life long ago, and we errantly believed it destroyed with the destruction of Karis in the Faey Imperium’s Third Civil War, before we were in strategic position to destroy it ourselves

That makes it sound like they came to the Milky way 1,000 years ago not to colonize like they told the Urumi but to attack Karinne. They have had 1,000 years to take over the milky way but didn't. They came back expressly because of the Karrines. This gives a hint that they did run into the Karinnes 1,000 years ago and they are a bunch of "zealots" and actually believe that claptrap about unnatural life. However there is something more disturbing that they revealed IMHO:

“The abomination has many names, but the Karinnes call it Cybi

We know that before the destruction of Karis there was more then one CBIM and Cybi was not the one most everyday Karinnes would have interacted with, she was to used for planetary emergency and response. So her name would not be as widespread through the Karinnes 1,000 years ago, then to top it off how did the Consortium know that of all the CBIM's that it was Cybi to survive. So it would be unlikely that they got that info from the Karinnes on Exile they captured. Now we know that up until now Cybi's name was basically a state secret off Karis. No one talked about her unless they were in a secured area such as Kiaari's office on Earth or on a KMS ship. We know the Consortium used Hyperspace probes to watch Karis but again how would they here Cybi's name? It's not like they broadcasted it in the clear for them. Also they knew exactly where Cybi was located but unlike Jason when he first arrvied at Karis they had multiple energy emissions on the planet. Then there is that little thing of how they even heard of the return of the Karinnes in the first place. We know their Comms between Galaxies takes two months, we know they have been building bases only since after Jason's appearance at court and we know how long it takes them to get to the Milky Way: 4.7 years. When you add those things up they knew about Cybi and the Karinnes when Cybi broadcasted her first Teryon Query and that is what alerted them. They must have taken a Teryon receiver from the Karinnes on exile and heard Cybi's transmission in Andromeda. They did what Jason is going to do with their comms from the captured ship. I also believe they probably ran across the Karinnes before the civil war and the Karinnes scared the piss out of them and it was the Karinnes that caused them to turn around and leave the Milkyway 1000 year ago.

PS here is something else I just thought of we know it takes 4.7 years now for them to jump to the Milky Way with Karinne engines so how did they do that 1,000 years ago without Karinne engines? or did they? Without Karinne Real time Hyper jumps that length of a trip would be almost impossible due to time dialation. Think about it, by the time they got there and called home how much time would have passed and would there still be a Consortium or their species still there.
So try this Hypothesis on: We know the Karinnes have been experimenting with and refining Hyperspace travel for milennia and they were also explorers. What if either by design or accident they took a trip to Andromeda and got stuck there.

[Fel]

Actually, the Consortium learned on their own how to jump not in real time, but with a significant reduction in relativity delay before they encountered the Karinnes at Exile, which was how they managed to build such a large empire in Andromeda. Their technique actually isn't too far off from Myleena's idea of building a "catapult" for ships to move them faster through hyperspace by forming a more efficient "bridge" between normal space and hyperspace. The bridges were much like Stargates in that they were massive devices that took years to build and were costly to maintain. It could only reduce the delay, not eliminate it, but that was better than nothing, especially for an empire that, at that time, was over 1500 systems and a ship could require 3 months of hyperspace travel from one side to the other without jumping through a bridge. With a bridge, that same jump would take only about 6 days.

Before they got Karinne engines, they could jump from Andromeda to the Milky Way in 176 years by initiating the jump from a hyperspace bridge. For the Consortium, this was an acceptable length of time for a colonizing force to travel.

For an Imperium ship to attempt the same jump with the relativity delay, it would take over 1700 years of constant travel.

How did they get back? They built another bridge on this side and used it to jump back to Andromeda. This was done purposefully; when you send a colonizing force to a new galaxy, you include engineers and the required resources to build a bridge to establish a link back to Andromeda. That bridge is actually still where it was built, but it stopped working long, long ago.

[Phantom]

Something I just picked up.. at the end of the chapter fel says

"The keys to the future lie buried within the past."

I wonder what he means? did the Old House Have some type of run in with them previously?

I would say that the answer is yes in a way ...

Well we know some about them and the Karinnes at Exile
but It appears their knowledge is a bit more then meets the Eye.
It would appear that they got their knowledge of the Karinnes from those taken from Exile long ago.

But Fel says it took them 176 years just to get from Andromeda to here then at least another 176 years back.
So that begs us to ask some question about the timeline as we understand it

we know it took 352 years for a round trip using the Consortium's tech
and we know they kidnapped some of the Karinnes from Exile.
But Fel tells us there were no generations on Exile.

To answer you, Jason, the ship’s
class is the KES, Karinne Exploratory Starship. The docked ship reports that its official designation is the
KES Scimitar. The Scimitar is a D-model, commissioned in 2879. A standard KES carries scientific and
survey equipment for the mapping, study, and research of stellar features, planets, and planetary
ecosystems. The Scimitar was fitted for dedicated research of astral phenonena: nebulas, black holes,
quasars, and such.
The standard crew of a KES is 67; 24 starship operations crew, 43 scientists and
scientific support crew. Its is equipped with a Mark IX Hyperspace Jump Engine for interstellar travel,
and utilizes Cascading Spatial Translation Engines for standard propulsion. It is powered by three
singularity power plants, and has no offensive weaponry. It is equipped with a Class V Composite
Harmonic Teryon Shield and is armored with a standard AE-5 Compressed Neutronium hull. the bulk of
its internal systems are comprised of sensors, scanners, and research equipment.] There was a pause.
[The ship reports its crew evacuated to a planet in 2887, and sent the ship via autopilot to a nebula, where
it went into standby mode to await further orders. It has remained so since then.]
[Could it be the ship that went to Earth?] Jason asked curiously.
[No, it is not. Its crew manifest does not include any of the Generations. If you make your way to the
docking building, you may tour the ship. It will be docked by the time you arrive.]

Also interesting is the Fact that we know the Consortium didn't get the KES Scimitar to study
So they had no Karinne ship that we know of to get hyperspace engines off of so we have to assume
they got it from one of the Tech or scientists minds.......or did they get it some where else

Also fel has told us the Consortium sent a colonizing force to the galaxy at least 352 years ago
Now it gets a bit interesting at this point

Now, Aura, tell him about the others, Meya prompted. “Listen to this, Jason. This makes it all fit.”
The others? Ah, yes. The ancestors wrote of them, my Duke. Before the devices our ancestors brought failed, there were other ships they saw, but they weren’t Karinne ships. So they fled the camp they made when they landed and hid from them, fearing they were Imperial ships that had come to kill them. But they weren’t Imperial, they were something else. The histories say that a group of ancestors were captured by them, and the ones who took them looked like gigantic insects, led by a strange creature made of pure light. They took our ancestors into their ship, looted the camp, and they left and never returned. They even took the small ships the Firstcomers used to get to Exile. After that, our ancestors abandoned the camp and fled far away.
Jason leaned back as Meya beamed at him. Insects, and a being made of light. The insectoids and the energy being.
The Consortium.
The Consortium had captured Karinnes. That did make it fit. That was why Consortium technology looked so…familiar. They captured Karinne technology, including the dropships they’d used to get to the planet, then they took it apart, learned how it worked. Oh, he was fairly certain that they didn’t get all their technology from the Karinnes, but it would have been enough for them to build on what they learned and develop similar technology to the Karinnes. But it fit. It did truly fit.

Ok so The Consortium took some of the ancestors and small craft used by the Firstcomers
Interesting is the use of took some of the ancestors and Not Firstcomers as used about the space crafts
How we need to fix the time line a bit

And how did Jason come to have a Karinne ancestor?
Well, this certainly dates the event, Songa sent. The Karinnes were destroyed about thirteen hundred
of your years ago. That would place this visit around, what, the year 700?
About that, Jason answered,

Ok so most of the Karinne's and “Karis” were destroyed about 1300 years ago.
Faey live for what about 200 years roughly double humans?
Now for what we've read The Consortium had to have kidnapped those ancestors off Exile about
say 900 to 1100 years ago
So if we take the old of the 2 The Consortium had to have left their galaxy at least 1300 years ago
At the least right around the very time the Karinne's and “Karis” were being destroyed.

But i'm thinking it was sooner then that that there were parts of The Consortium around.
At the very least i would think they'd have had advanced scouts out in front of them just to check
things out .

Here's the Kicker I think The Consortium were around before the Karinne's and “Karis” were destroyed 1300 years ago.
and I think they are the ones that got the faey 3rd civil war started and they Saw the Karinne's as their biggest threat.
so they pushed through agents to get them eliminated.

they also tried to Visit “Karis” at least once But they ran into the Kimdori who were Guarding Karis ( Hence the destroyed ship we read about in subjugation ) Remember the Kimdori have said they'd destroyed ships near Karis before.

Debris. Floating debris so thick it looked like an asteroid field, all of it twisted metal.
A ship. A big one, from the look of it, Zora sent as they carefully picked their way through the debris
field. Looks like she got hit right in the reactor and blew.
Why are the pieces all right here? Wouldn’t they have drifted away?
Some have. What’s here is probably about thirty percent of the ship, she answered. But the debris has
its own gravity field, and that pulls back all the larger pieces and the ones with low energy. And
remember, Jayce, all this junk is moving. We’re going, what, about twenty thousand? This debris is
moving at the same speed we are.
Why do you say something hit it?
This ship was destroyed. See the blast burns right there on that piece of outer hull? she asked, pointing
at a lazily spinning piece of flat metal that looked like bacon fried in a pan along its edges. This ship was
destroyed in combat. From the looks of it, it had to be a really long time ago. All the ship’s markings have
faded on the outer hull pieces. This might be the remnants of one of the ships that originally attacked Karis
and destroyed the Karinnes.

so they then searched else where looking for any Karinne's science missions that may have survived and hidden elsewhere until they stumbled across Exile....maybe others as well.

So how they had time to build up their colony and plan their conquest of the galaxy almost unopposed.

Then one day their agents Discover that the Karinne's have survived or they heard Cybi's Broadcast when Jason helped fix her transmitter.

The Threat was back .....we needed to move their plans up they needed to capture any the Karinne generations or Tech that might be left including Cybi

So Messages are sent and a larger Fleet is sent to help them ...remember 2 month for message to travel back home
to Andromeda and even with Karinne engines to move them it's 4.7 years to go from there to here.
so the messages and decision to send this fleet had to have happened about the same time Jason found and fixed Cybi.

So the "The keys to the future lie buried within the past." is interesting what's in the past?

The Legion was in the past ....but not far enough
Exile is in the past.
The Consortium Colony is in the past and now
The Consortium hyperspace bridge is in the past....humm
The 3rd Civil war is in the past.

and Cybi and The Generations were in the past.

Jason has Plans to equip ships with biogenetic computers like Cybi so Karinne generations could use them for defense.

Still the answer to Fel's Riddle seems Fall to Cybi ....some thing in The Karinne's past is the Key.....The Karinne's were Known for Knowledge so what Knowledge did they know that's the Key.....or are there still missing Karinne's...maybe even More lost Generation's waiting some where out there with the needed Key ?

Or is there something buried in The Karinne's past on Earth still waiting to be discovered that solves this mystery ?

Still the question of HOW and when the Consortium got Karinne hyperspace engines without the KES Scimitar still bugs me a bit.....we do know they never found her ....if they had they would have taken her to study and not left her behind for jason and Cybi to recall to Karis.

I mean we do know that the Scimitar wasn't able to carry any small ships that were hyperspace capable?

Plans with in Plans




Phantom