Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

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All about the Subjugation, Insurrection, and Unification books.

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Fel
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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by Fel »

Remember one simple thing.

A Generation, by himself, is nothing but a strong telepath with telekinetic powers. Without a gestalt or biogenic device, their true potential is wasted. And there is only ONE place where you can get that. Karis. The most heavily defended planet in the sector, and nigh on untouchable.

Yes, Dahnai could clone Raisha or Jason and have an army of Generations, but all she'd get out of it would be an army of strong telepaths. An advantage, yes, but is it worth the expense and effort when she could simply train her own army much more cheaply, and not have to wait 17 years for them to grow up?

And yes, Jason could say nothing and allow Dahnai to raise Raisha as a Merrane, and Raisha would be both safe and well cared for by Dahnai. That's possible, and it's one of the things that they kick around. But we're getting into "Jason as a flawed character" again. He wants contact with his daughter, access to her, and Dahnai knows it. Trust that she'll use that connection like a leash to try to drag Jason in the direction she wants him to go.

Dahnai's not going to get out of this unscathed either, by the way. It's going to be an absolute SCANDAL that the Empress is pregnant by a human. The Faey have their own number of racists and bigots, and they'll see a half-breed in the Imperial family, in line for the throne, as a major stain of the Imperial honor and a threat to Faey society itself. Dahnai is taking a HUGE risk with this pregnancy, but she feels that it is worth the risk.
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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by expedient »

Dahnai impregnating herself deliberately puts a very strange slant on her character. She has potentially put the Imperium in turmoil when unity is needed. However if Jason and the Karinnes prove to be the saviours of their empire from the threat of the Consortium it could prove inspired. If Jason also succeeds in forging a grand coalition between all the sector powers, he and House Karinne could diminish Merrane's power within the Imperium.

Has Dahnai been entirely selfishly motivated or does she feel that drawing the Karinnes into the heart of the Imperium is an urgent imperative?
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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by Fel »

She has a reason for it. It's obscure, but there's a reason.
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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by Hearly »

Fel wrote:She has a reason for it. It's obscure, but there's a reason.


Taps foot, shouldn't you be working on chap 6? :P


heh thanks for all these teases Fel.
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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by boballab »

Fel wrote:She has a reason for it. It's obscure, but there's a reason.
I'll take a stab at that reason or varied little reasons.

1. In a way Dhanni is in love with Jason and with Kellin and wants children by both the men she loves. but that wouldn't be enough for a schemer like Dhanni.

2. She thinks she could use her daughter as a club to beat over Jason's head. Technically Shya is not in line for sucession. It goes from her eldest daughter to Raisha's fratenal twin then to Raisha. When a person leaves a house they leave that house completely. They have no more place in the line of ascension in that house. On the other hand it would also besides being a scandal be a Big F'ing Club over the Imperium. What the Siann would see is that a Merrane that gave up her title, was in Black Ops, Now is the 4th ranking Karinne Noble; The second daughter born to the empress is married into Karinne to the Heir to that house; then on top of it Karinne now gives a daughter to Merrane. To the Siann it would look like Merrane and Karinne were merging into one Super powered house.

3. Dhanni has access to records that the rest of the imperium doesn't. Everyone knows about the selective breeding program but Dhanni with those records is a sharp enough operator to figure out there must be more to it that makes Karinne nobles so telepathically strong. Now she would have two babies from the same Non-Karinne mother with one Non-Karinne father the other a Karinne Noble. Compare the DNA and see whats different between the two twins. The DNA they get from the Mother is Identical so where ever there is a difference they know it comes from the father. Remember Telepathy is genetic and Raisha is going to be stronger then her sister and express years earlier so that means the genes from her father will determine that. Remember the Imperial Medical service has a genetic scan of Jason when Myleena captured him. Now I can't say that the medical service would turn that scan over to the empress but I wouldn't put it past Black Ops from being able to crack their computer system and find it. There you have it Dhanni's Scan, Jason's Scan, Kellin's scan and the twins scan and the Genetic differences would stick out like a sore thumb. What she could figure out from it is debatable but that is one Kaba Pod Jason and the Denmother would never want to be opened.

This is something different and something that points to Raisha must live on Karis. This is based on Dhanni Raising Raisha. After she expresses she will be able to pick up Communion just like Rann, Kyri and all the other Generations. So what happens the first time Jason visits Draconis and uses his Gestalt to talk back to his ship and Raisha "overhears" this and asks her Nannies about it. Someone will eventually figure out that Raisha only hears that phantom voice only when a Karinne is near. Or how about when she visits Karis after expressing and turning and asking Dhanni "Mommy there is this weird sending I can't make out". Given enough chances and she will eventually figure out what that sending is, then the shit drops into the pot. Then there is the Kimdori angle. You think Denmother Zaa is going to let that girl be raised by Dhanni in a time of crises like this. Dhanni is already suspicious about the Karinnes and asking questions that shouldn't be asked. I think that would be too much for the Denmother.

Something brought up also was that other Generations were brought up outside of the house. Well from what I gleaned from Subjugation and based on Myleena's ancestors case. Those outside of house breedings was done by contract with the child always going to House Karinne. It wasn't until the House was wiped out that the child stayed with the other house, just like Myleena's case. The Karinnes were going to kidnapped the child when they were destroyed. So historically Jason is in the right to "claim" Raisha.
[Brother to Gora Karinne,] Cybi said immediately. [Married into House Merrane for the purpose of producing a child with Sera Merrane, a genetically superior female. He was to return to the house after producing the heir.]
[That’s why I’m here? Because the Karinnes wanted to breed with a Merrane?]
[The short answer, Myleena Merrane, is yes. House Karinne saw admirable genetic qualities in a Merrane female, and wished to introduce her genetic qualities into the line. Zuy Karinne died after impregnating Sera Merrane, and so that offspring remained within House Merrane. Plans were made to return the child to Karinne, but the house was destroyed before those plans were executed.]
[They were going to kidnap the child?]
[I do not have that information. It is possible,] Cybi answered honestly. [It is not the first out-of-house breeding ordered. Genetically superior Faey from outside the house were often used to enrich the line. My scans indicate that the young Faey female Jason’s memory designates as Private Yana would be a prime candidate for such a breeding partner. My scans indicate she is gifted in talent, on par with a Karinne female.]
I think in the end Dhanni is going to get the pants scared off her and decide that this whole thing was a really, really, bad idea. Jason doesn't have to mention the Kimdori connection but just some of the genetic engineering parts and what happened to the ones that died with the gene therapy and Dhanni would want no part of it.
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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by Mizriath »

Fel wrote:
Guess it would be even more of a spoiler to slip a little and say that Raisha wasn't a natural conception. There's a reason she's one of a pair of fraternal twins, with Kellin being the other father. ;)

Dahnai is a schemer. She's never pretended to be anything different, though she'll deny it up and down if accused of it.
I read this 3 times to make sure I understand it correctly. Dahnai scooped up some of the juice to get herself pregnant... so that she can tie Karrine closely with Merrane! The Kimdori will finally find this out and Jason will have a big conniption over it unless Dahani kills those involved with the scheme.....

Oh My! Dahnai is getting ruthless in her pursuit of Jason and tying Karrine to Merrane. She has been doing it since sending the Mey to Jason... trying to tie Jason to her. In her love for the empire and Imperium, she saw Jason as the answer and like others have mentioned, she knew there is more to the Karinnes and she is finding out more and more... especially the fact that the Kimdori listens to Jason. It cannot be for to put a Karrine on the throne who has ear of the other galactic race.

Like FEL has said, she would not escape unscathe.... how the Siann wil have a conniption if they think that Jason would be the new emperor... and revolt... nah it would not come to that.

The obscure reason..... so many have child with Jason and express by 5 years old - guaranteed..... she wants to have a child that walks in Trelle's hair too. She knows that Karrine genes has something to do with it.
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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by boballab »

Thats the Scandal Miz. The Siann would not only see Shya going to Karinne but now the Empress gets pregnant by Jason and he gets that Imperial Child too. Some of the Siann will start thinking that Jason and House Karinne now are not just allied to the Empress but now she is their puppet, the power behind the throne. To them Jason would be the De facto Emperor. That is good and bad for Jason. To outside races like the Urumi they will see it as that Karinne can control Dahanni and any deal he brokers the Imperium will be forced to back up. To some houses they will start going out of their way to be very nice to Jason because they will see it as him not only having his fleet but defacto control of the Imperial fleet. On the other side others will be sharping their knives to get Jason out of the way and hopefully find out what type of control Jason has over the Empress that they can use.
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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by dellstart »

wow
I can see temika's smug smile and 'I told you so look' already! :twisted:

Truth is as fel has already sated , it really might be a choice of choosing the worst of two evils.What form that will take I guess we will have to wait and see.

Though this whole Dahani getting preggers on purpose , has me really wondering as well.Think boballab hit it pretty much on the head as well.
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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by Mysterious »

I agree completely with ANITcarrot :P

But I would go a bit further...

Jason Augustus Fox is a traitor.

Yep. I said it. Jason is a traitor.

Case in point: Last time I checked Karis does not have any democratic institutions? How much time has passed since the Colonisation? Five Years?

Jason: Born a US military brat from a Midwest heritage. Democracy should be ingrained into his DNA.

Abraham Lincoln said it best: "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

Jason's character has been proved... lacking. Jason may think he's doing what he's doing for the greater good... But a Tyrant is still a Tyrant.

The path to Hell is paved with good intentions.




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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by boballab »

It's easy to say that Jason is a traitor but you have to look at the "reality" of the situation. The Faey are an Empire that conquored Earth. Karis has been for thousands of years, even when it was a radioactive wasteland, a planet of that Empire. The Faey only recognize governments that are controlled by what we call a feudal lord. There is no concept of democracy among the Faey. The Faey Imperium is not like the old Roman Empire where you had the All powerful Caeser running the show, it is more in line with the Holy Roman Empire. That was more a case of one King became powerful enough to impose rule over all the other local kings and only stayed around as long as the Emperor could militarily beat all the other kings and keep them in submission.

Now compare Earth to Karis. On Earth Jason restored as much of the original governments as he could and setup the UN as the Representative governing body of the planet, but to the Faey Imperium that doesn't matter, all they care about is that technically that body answers to a Faey Noble that operates under the Emperess. Now Karis is another story. Karis has always been a Feudal holding of House Karinne, it has never had democracy and the Faey have no experience with it. Karis is owned Lock, Stock and Barrel by House Karinne, the whole planet is technically Jason's private property and just like any property owner he makes the rules on it as long as they don't conflict with the law (which is his noble charter). IF Jason went and said ok your now a democracy on Karis, Dhanni has the right to swoop down and reclaim the planet in the name of the Empire. Also on top of that the largest single group living on Karis are Faey and they like their Empire so don't expect support there. The Kizzik is like a Ant colony so is predisposed by nature to a Feudal system. The Kimdori is Pack mentality and there is only one Pack leader. The Makati are now part of the Faey Imperium and from what little you get in Subjugation they seem to like their current situation. So why would Jason try and rock the boat when he is trying to rebuild his ancestoral home and now when fighting a war. As to democracy should be ingrained to his DNA: As my Hillbilly ancestors said "Sorry but that Dog don't Hunt." The only form of "government" ingrained on human DNA is the strong man model because historically humans are pack animals and the leader of the pack historically is the strongest of the pack. After every representitive form of government that fell in ancient times a single feudal lord emerged afterwards. The Roman Republic to the Roman Empire, The Athenian Democracy to Ogliarch revolutions to finally the Macedons lead first by Philip then by Alexander.

Btw Augustus was the name of the first Emperor of Rome (it wasn't Julius Ceaser). Fel wouldn't have thought of that would he. :twisted:
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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by expedient »

I think boballab's explanation encompasses the situation very well. Further the Grand Duchesses/Duke of the noble houses are closer to CEOs of multi-system conglomerates than our historical feudal lords. They just happen to be hereditary positions and have to be removed by more direct measures than boardroom take-overs... Maybe one of the Houses may see this attempted in the not so distant future? :twisted:
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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by Mad Monk »

I wonder if the emperess has hold of a gesalt? It could be an original from the first Karrines which was held in a museum. Could that be the obscure reason? Faey are capable of long term planning, partly due to their political system.

It has been argued that democracies fail at long term planning due to polititians worrying about the next election.

She sees the need to tie Jason more closely to the imperium and her own house. Jason's trying to seperate the Karrines up to the present crisis has made her worried about the future. She realises that if the imperial family is assassinated, then in the ensuing civil war the Karrinnes are likely to seperate from the imperium.
Mistra wrote:for this kid to become the next empress the entire imperial family (excluding dahnai's son and shya, the latter being a karrine rather then a merane) has to be killed off miraculously with just her surviving... good luck with that.
A single nuke hitting the palace while they are on a future visit to Karis could do that. Or a smuggled bomb like in the "Fourth Protocol" by Fredrick Forsyth. The Kimdori are the ultimate spies, but if only a few people know, then they are unlikely to find out until too late.
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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by wolfy »

The presence of a Imperial child in house Karinne creates yet another possible outcome... The Empress knowing she is going to have continued problems even with the backing of house Karinne has gone with a bold plan. One that requires Karinne in affect to be the 2nd of 2 Imperial houses. Simply a Dual Monarchy - So if you first don't succeed in weedling a favor or concession for the Impress, you go ask the secondary Imperial leader - Grand Duke Karinne.

Now while this doesn't seem like a thing for the Impress to do... it does however have the advantages of tying the Karinnes much more firmly into the Imperium. It also drastically increases House Merriane pschological impact... House Merriane is now perceived to have a extreamly powerful cadet house, which is well known to be a fully functional House in its own right... in affect at the very least doubling House Merraine-Karinnes firepower.

For the price of a pregancy the Impress seems to present as fait accompli that House Merraine and Karinne are one step closer to whatever her plan may be...
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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by dellstart »

In Subjugation ,Jason stated that he really hates the whole house- leadership- feudal- style system.He rightfully claims , its flawed chaotic and almost at times self defeating. Despite , his having to form a House to protect Earth and Karis,we I haven't seen anywhere that he thinks that its now(the whole feudal system), the bees knees and all that.
He's a realist, playing the role cause that's whats required , not because that's what he personally desires.I think his whole leadership style , reflects that whole belief. "The people come first" is the corner stone of his whole personal philosophy.Which is a refection of his human upbringing as well.Hence,when you examine it, Jason tries to be in obtrusive as possible.Self sufficiency is the by word of karis .Hardly ,the actions of a selfish faey Duchess , who uses and abuses who ever and what ever according to their slightest whim.

2)Dahani in some ways is starting to remind me of Spiro from the spiritwalker. More a beloved companion , who you cant 100% trust than a true love and soul mate.Shes no symone or jyslin. Make you wonder , if she hasn't been playing him along the entire time and whats mason going to do if that happens to be true?
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Re: Unification - Chapter 5 - Spoilers

Post by ANTIcarrot »

Metatrone wrote:Hmm, I would have made the same point like Anticarrot, but probably with less of a rant.
Oh hush, that wasn't a rant. I'd have used rant-marks if it was. :)

Idiotpaste asks why the story was working the way it was and I told him. The shorter way would have been, "Because that's the way Fel built it," but that wouldn't have been as useful. Thing of it this way: If you write a story about a young female religious fundamentalist, and she gets pregnant, she can't just get an abortion, because she is a fundimentalist - because of the way the story is built. Fel has built a story where all Generations and related tech must be under the direct control either Jason or the Denmother. Hence any generation or biocomputers that are not, is automatically a problem; irrespective of how rational that view is to us.
The Karinnes do sorta have the beginning of an "We come in peace to conquer" attitude.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y81he0l-d6I
Anyway, I've been waiting for Dahnai to get pregnant for some time. I'm quite convinced that Jason will be an idiot about it.
As I said, he's a father - so this is a given. :twisted:
Mistra wrote:ANTIcarrot: the Generations ARE superior to most other races, there's a difference between being racist and plain knowing you're better,
...
I'm going to assume you made a dumb mistake in typing out this sentence, and that you MEANT only physically superior. And I'll grant you that, yes, they are. They have increased radiation tolerance and their brains have been tinkered with to work better with a specific type of computer. But that doesn't make them better people. Any more than Arnie's muscles make him more capable of making moral decisions than you are. But they act like they are more capable of making decisions than other people, simply because of their genetic birthright. That is is the definition of racism.
it's not racist if you invite entirely different species on your home planet (analogy: a white man inviting a black man willingly into his home).
It is racist if the white man honestly believes the black man is too stupid to handle anything valuable or important simply because he is not white. Or requires that the black man pass a competency test before doing so, and not ask the same of a white man.
Last edited by ANTIcarrot on Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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