Predictions?

[afrigeek]

Knowing how big an advantage being a generation gives when interfacing with karinne technology, I wonder why it doesn't occur to Jason to at least figure out what in the gene treatment caused some to die. If that were eliminated, the gene treatments could be given to the new Karinnes like the marines who were co-opted into the house and they would have a major advantage in almost every way over everyone else for those for whom it worked that is... It wouldn't be restarting the program per se but maximizing existing advantages.

[boballab]

Knowing how big an advantage being a generation gives when interfacing with karinne technology, I wonder why it doesn't occur to Jason to at least figure out what in the gene treatment caused some to die. If that were eliminated, the gene treatments could be given to the new Karinnes like the marines who were co-opted into the house and they would have a major advantage in almost every way over everyone else for those for whom it worked that is... It wouldn't be restarting the program per se but maximizing existing advantages.

Actually that is re-starting the program. The gene therapy isn't what makes a Generation, it was the off spring (Sora) from two survivors of the gene therapy treatment that was the first Generation.

[Indeed. That was the beginning of the Generations program. The Kimdori assisted us in this as they assisted us with the crystals. A recombinent DNA sequence was generated that combined the necessary aspects of Faey and Kimdori DNA that would give a Faey the necessary sensitivity to interface with the biogenic crystals. The experiment was a success. Then, gene therapy was ordered for the entire house after it was refined, and in this it was moderately successful. Some Karinnes successfully took the treatment and their DNA was altered. Some died from the treatment, and some had their bodies reject the treatment, and they remained unaltered. But enough of the house was changed to permit expansion of the gene pool by breeding. My image’s namesake, Sora Karinne, was the first child born of altered parents. All CBIMs carry her image as their visual interface in her honor. She was the First Generation, and the mother of your line, Jason.

This Quote from Cybi as he explained the program to Jason shows that the First Generation was Sora. Also two other things about that:
1. Jason is Vehemetly against that sort of engineering.

The project is a failure, he thought to himself, remembering the words. The project failed before it began! Thank God that Koiri Karinne understood that at the end and forbade the survivors from restarting the program!

2. Cybi is not allowed to give Jason any techincal information on how to make the recombinant DNA.

[My answers are yours, Master Karinne, and it has been my designation, or name, to be known as Cybi. All security protocols have been removed by Koiri Karinne, except the protocols around the technical data of the Program. I am permitted to answer questions about it, but not help you restart it.]
[Trust me, I never want to see it restarted,] he answered.

As shown by these quotes the making of the recombinat DNA was the start of the program. It was a 3 step process.
1. research and make the recombinant DNA
2. Gene Therapy on all nobles of House Karrine.
3. A Seletive Breeding program to expand the Gene pool and bring in desirable Talents.
Of those three steps 1&2 were the secret part that only the Kimdori, the CBIM's and the Generations know. The Selective Breeding program was know in the Imperium and caused a Shovalle Empress to outlaw that sort of thing, but Cybi followed by Jyslin kinda of pushed Jason into a modified version of it to fill the House out and Jason wasn't keen on that. So I wouldn't count on seeing anything like that taking place with Jason as Grand Duke.

[storyreader2005]

3. A Seletive Breeding program to expand the Gene pool and bring in desirable Talents.
Of those three steps 1&2 were the secret part that only the Kimdori, the CBIM's and the Generations know. The Selective Breeding program was know in the Imperium and caused a Shovalle Empress to outlaw that sort of thing, but Cybi followed by Jyslin kinda of pushed Jason into a modified version of it to fill the House out and Jason wasn't keen on that. So I wouldn't count on seeing anything like that taking place with Jason as Grand Duke.

The Karinnes became known as the most powerful telepaths in the Imperium, hand over fist. It also caused Empress Ziora Shevalle to enact the Natural Progression edict, a ban on genetic engineering experiments that other houses began to consider after seeing the success of the Karinne breeding program.

It wasn't breeding programs that were outlawed, it was genetic engineering programs like what created the generations in the first place.

Which is another reason why even trying to safely allow the marines to become generations isn't going to happen.

[boballab]

3. A Seletive Breeding program to expand the Gene pool and bring in desirable Talents.
Of those three steps 1&2 were the secret part that only the Kimdori, the CBIM's and the Generations know. The Selective Breeding program was know in the Imperium and caused a Shovalle Empress to outlaw that sort of thing, but Cybi followed by Jyslin kinda of pushed Jason into a modified version of it to fill the House out and Jason wasn't keen on that. So I wouldn't count on seeing anything like that taking place with Jason as Grand Duke.

The Karinnes became known as the most powerful telepaths in the Imperium, hand over fist. It also caused Empress Ziora Shevalle to enact the Natural Progression edict, a ban on genetic engineering experiments that other houses began to consider after seeing the success of the Karinne breeding program.

It wasn't breeding programs that were outlawed, it was genetic engineering programs like what created the generations in the first place.

Which is another reason why even trying to safely allow the marines to become generations isn't going to happen.

I Bolded the part of the quote you provided that shows it was the Karrine Breeding Program that spurred the Ban. The other houses and the Imperium knew nothing of the Generation program except that the Karrines were praticing Eugenics and Eugenics is a form of Genetic Engineering. To the Imperium the Karrines were doing what the Nazi's did in the Lebensborn program trying to make the "perfect" being. For the Faey the strongest Telepath for the Nazi's the Master Race.

[dellstart]

Hmm. Well think of this. If Unification is the bringing home of the exiled Karinnes some of them might not be to happy about a Human/Faey Hybrid running the House. Could the purification be that some of descendents of the non generation nobles on Exile might want to get rid of Jason's family? or maybe get rid of the Generations themselves? Remember the Karinnes from 1,000 years ago were elitists and scornful of everyone that wasn't a Karinne. We don't know what type of attitude their descendents now have after being stuck on that planet. They could be extremely xenophobic, especially after some of their ancestors were kidnapped by the consortium.

Good one

This kinda reminds me a bit of the conflict that ensued, when the the Ancient Dragonriders((of Pern) were brought forward in time.What a contrast of conflicting beliefs , Ideology and all round plain nastiness.
Then again, having existed as long as they have in exile , its kind of hard to believe they would have that arrogance.They are just the lesser sons of mighty off spring.

[boballab]

The way I read some of the things Aura said to Jason lend to an impression that the Exiles are very much still tied to the beliefs of the Karinnes of a 1,000 years ago.

1. They speak the Faey language as it was spoken 1,000 years ago. Over that length of time you would expect some new words or phrases to crop up in use, but Jason says that Aura spoke Archaic Faey not a different dialect. Think of the changes in English over just over 200 years between England and the US. That points to a rote method of learning and a strict "This is the way the Firstcomers spoke and so shall you" mindset.

2. Remember their ancestors were attacked by both sides of the second civil war so all the Faey were against them, then the consortium shows up and kidnaps some and the local beings attacked them for being demons. That type of thing would turn more then just a handful of people to a us against the universe mentality.

3. Aura said that it is the duty of every child to read the books from the Firstcomers.

After the devices they brought all failed, they taught the ancestors simpler ways, simpler weapons. But they kept everything in books, and it’s the duty of every child to read the books and know where they came from, so we never forget.

Now these books were written by the Firstcomers and it appears to contain not just scientific knowledge. If that is the case they would put their own spin on things and with every child after that reading them as if they were holy writ well you can see how that could go.

4. Aura pointed out that not all of the exile Karinnes might want to leave. We know Aura does because she wants to live what is basically a childhood dream of flying through the stars. However we don't know what politics are like on Exile nor what the in house politics of House Karinne were 1,000 years ago. How did Aura become Chieftess? Was it through elections or was it hereditary? We know that the Karinne nobles became scornful of the rest of the Faey but were the Generations, who were superior in talent, scornful of the unaltered Karinne nobles? More then likely Aura got the leadership postion by hereditary. The highest ranking noble that survived would be in charge and she passed the Chieftess title down to her eldest daughter, very similar to how the House work in the Imperium. Now for the rub, what if the Generations were scornful and looked down on the unaltered members of the house. That type of thing would also be passed down from the Firstcomers and might prejudice some against the present day Generations.

We need to rememeber that the Exile Karinnes were a small persecuted group when they got there. With it being a small group on an island it would be easy to go from we must remember where we came from to a almost religious belief that the way the Firstcomers lived is the correct way. Some Scifi authors have touched on that concept before of an advanced civilization collapsing and some of the cutoff decendents giving an almost Godhood to their ancient ancestors and beliefs and what they would do if you don't toe that party line.

[dellstart]

The way I read some of the things Aura said to Jason lend to an impression that the Exiles are very much still tied to the beliefs of the Karinnes of a 1,000 years ago.

1. They speak the Faey language as it was spoken 1,000 years ago. Over that length of time you would expect some new words or phrases to crop up in use, but Jason says that Aura spoke Archaic Faey not a different dialect. Think of the changes in English over just over 200 years between England and the US. That points to a rote method of learning and a strict "This is the way the Firstcomers spoke and so shall you" mindset.

2. Remember their ancestors were attacked by both sides of the second civil war so all the Faey were against them, then the consortium shows up and kidnaps some and the local beings attacked them for being demons. That type of thing would turn more then just a handful of people to a us against the universe mentality.

3. Aura said that it is the duty of every child to read the books from the Firstcomers.

After the devices they brought all failed, they taught the ancestors simpler ways, simpler weapons. But they kept everything in books, and it’s the duty of every child to read the books and know where they came from, so we never forget.

Now these books were written by the Firstcomers and it appears to contain not just scientific knowledge. If that is the case they would put their own spin on things and with every child after that reading them as if they were holy writ well you can see how that could go.

4. Aura pointed out that not all of the exile Karinnes might want to leave. We know Aura does because she wants to live what is basically a childhood dream of flying through the stars. However we don't know what politics are like on Exile nor what the in house politics of House Karinne were 1,000 years ago. How did Aura become Chieftess? Was it through elections or was it hereditary? We know that the Karinne nobles became scornful of the rest of the Faey but were the Generations, who were superior in talent, scornful of the unaltered Karinne nobles? More then likely Aura got the leadership postion by hereditary. The highest ranking noble that survived would be in charge and she passed the Chieftess title down to her eldest daughter, very similar to how the House work in the Imperium. Now for the rub, what if the Generations were scornful and looked down on the unaltered members of the house. That type of thing would also be passed down from the Firstcomers and might prejudice some against the present day Generations.

We need to rememeber that the Exile Karinnes were a small persecuted group when they got there. With it being a small group on an island it would be easy to go from we must remember where we came from to a almost religious belief that the way the Firstcomers lived is the correct way. Some Scifi authors have touched on that concept before of an advanced civilization collapsing and some of the cutoff decendents giving an almost Godhood to their ancient ancestors and beliefs and what they would do if you don't toe that party line.

Its a strong possibility, guess we will have to wait and see.Though there are for sure going to be some teething problems,no matter what happens.

[ANTIcarrot]

I have a sore throat, and a head cold, and feel thoroughly miserable, so I'm going to cry a river and be even more cynical than normal in my predictions...

1) Jason wins
2) Along the way he becomes even more powerful and wealthy then he is now
3) He'll also add to the ever expanding collection of individuals willing to bow down and worship him at so much as a nod.
4) He will face no serious political opposition that the readership might agree with.
5) At no point will he face an enemy with blunt superiority in technology.
6) He will be forced to make no hard choices.
7) The people of Earth will remain faceless mindless spear carriers who never leave the very far background.
8) After pouring scorn on his enemies for brain washing 3 million humans, he'll fill their empty minds with propaganda from his own house. And get away with it.
9) One or two secondary characters will die.
10) Jason loses the last vestiges of his human social up bringing. And there will be much rejoicing.

[Fel]

Note that this will contain spoilers that might ruin the story for others, but I just can't let this one go by without comment.

I have a sore throat, and a head cold, and feel thoroughly miserable, so I'm going to cry a river and be even more cynical than normal in my predictions...

1) Jason wins
2) Along the way he becomes even more powerful and wealthy then he is now
3) He'll also add to the ever expanding collection of individuals willing to bow down and worship him at so much as a nod.
4) He will face no serious political opposition that the readership might agree with.
5) At no point will he face an enemy with blunt superiority in technology.
6) He will be forced to make no hard choices.
7) The people of Earth will remain faceless mindless spear carriers who never leave the very far background.
After pouring scorn on his enemies for brain washing 3 million humans, he'll fill their empty minds with propaganda from his own house. And get away with it.
9) One or two secondary characters will die.
10) Jason loses the last vestiges of his human social up bringing. And there will be much rejoicing.

1. Yes, but sometimes a victory costs more than a defeat.
2. No.
3. He forms new alliances, but not quite like that. After all, a Karinne is the only one that could make everyone cooperate, because of their legendary neutrality.
4. His political opposition will come from OUTSIDE the Imperium. Dahnai is one of his strongest allies.
5. Technological superiority, no. But if you send a million ants to kill a panther, the ants will win.
6. I'll let you decide that one.
7. Earth is literally just background to the story. The Academy will play its part, but Earth itself, as a neutral site, has little impact aside from that.
8. No.
9. One or two main characters will die along with them.
10. Jason embraced Faey society to protect his people. He was the sacrifice to guarantee his people regained their freedom. And now, he has to maintain Faey society because he rules a Faey house within a Faey system that he knows he cannot change...but he maintains his core principles of honor, justice, and loyalty, which are definitely NOT Faey traits.

Will there be rejoicing? Yes. But it will come with a heavy price.

[TLGG]

When's that story being published again?

[boballab]

Note that this will contain spoilers that might ruin the story for others, but I just can't let this one go by without comment.

I have a sore throat, and a head cold, and feel thoroughly miserable, so I'm going to cry a river and be even more cynical than normal in my predictions...

1) Jason wins
2) Along the way he becomes even more powerful and wealthy then he is now
3) He'll also add to the ever expanding collection of individuals willing to bow down and worship him at so much as a nod.
4) He will face no serious political opposition that the readership might agree with.
5) At no point will he face an enemy with blunt superiority in technology.
6) He will be forced to make no hard choices.
7) The people of Earth will remain faceless mindless spear carriers who never leave the very far background.
After pouring scorn on his enemies for brain washing 3 million humans, he'll fill their empty minds with propaganda from his own house. And get away with it.
9) One or two secondary characters will die.
10) Jason loses the last vestiges of his human social up bringing. And there will be much rejoicing.

1. Yes, but sometimes a victory costs more than a defeat.
2. No.
3. He forms new alliances, but not quite like that. After all, a Karinne is the only one that could make everyone cooperate, because of their legendary neutrality.
4. His political opposition will come from OUTSIDE the Imperium. Dahnai is one of his strongest allies.
5. Technological superiority, no. But if you send a million ants to kill a panther, the ants will win.
6. I'll let you decide that one.
7. Earth is literally just background to the story. The Academy will play its part, but Earth itself, as a neutral site, has little impact aside from that.
8. No.
9. One or two main characters will die along with them.
10. Jason embraced Faey society to protect his people. He was the sacrifice to guarantee his people regained their freedom. And now, he has to maintain Faey society because he rules a Faey house within a Faey system that he knows he cannot change...but he maintains his core principles of honor, justice, and loyalty, which are definitely NOT Faey traits.

Will there be rejoicing? Yes. But it will come with a heavy price.

Ok here Goes Points 1,6,9 and the last of 10 go to the heart of the matter. My opion is that Jason has to make a decision/order that results in the death of Jyslin and/or Symone.

[J-Man5]

Nope, Tim!

[dellstart]

Note that this will contain spoilers that might ruin the story for others, but I just can't let this one go by without comment.

I have a sore throat, and a head cold, and feel thoroughly miserable, so I'm going to cry a river and be even more cynical than normal in my predictions...

1) Jason wins
2) Along the way he becomes even more powerful and wealthy then he is now
3) He'll also add to the ever expanding collection of individuals willing to bow down and worship him at so much as a nod.
4) He will face no serious political opposition that the readership might agree with.
5) At no point will he face an enemy with blunt superiority in technology.
6) He will be forced to make no hard choices.
7) The people of Earth will remain faceless mindless spear carriers who never leave the very far background.
After pouring scorn on his enemies for brain washing 3 million humans, he'll fill their empty minds with propaganda from his own house. And get away with it.
9) One or two secondary characters will die.
10) Jason loses the last vestiges of his human social up bringing. And there will be much rejoicing.

1. Yes, but sometimes a victory costs more than a defeat.
2. No.
3. He forms new alliances, but not quite like that. After all, a Karinne is the only one that could make everyone cooperate, because of their legendary neutrality.
4. His political opposition will come from OUTSIDE the Imperium. Dahnai is one of his strongest allies.
5. Technological superiority, no. But if you send a million ants to kill a panther, the ants will win.
6. I'll let you decide that one.
7. Earth is literally just background to the story. The Academy will play its part, but Earth itself, as a neutral site, has little impact aside from that.
8. No.
9. One or two main characters will die along with them.
10. Jason embraced Faey society to protect his people. He was the sacrifice to guarantee his people regained their freedom. And now, he has to maintain Faey society because he rules a Faey house within a Faey system that he knows he cannot change...but he maintains his core principles of honor, justice, and loyalty, which are definitely NOT Faey traits.

Will there be rejoicing? Yes. But it will come with a heavy price.

Woah ! great post anti carrot and great reply fel

[dellstart]

Just to throw my cents in;


I guess the victory costing more than defeat ,will be in terms of personal lost and financial liability.Not to mention perhaps, loss of political clout though I doubt it.The academy destroyed or karis Bombed?

As for the hard choices, we don't know enough yet to know what these would consist of.

who's going to kick the bucket? (reminds me of the 'pre book seven days ' of Harry Potter )

1)The one, who death would most haunt them all (besides jason) is Symone's . She's very much the heart of that small quartet.So, if you want gut wrenching tragic drama,then you have to look no futher than Symone biting the bullet or buying the farm.

2)Then again , I could see Jyslin ,giving herself up for the good of the house.

3)Tim?

As for Jason turning Faey, In a lot of ways hes already there there culturally and politically but not totally.You cant help , but see how many times he find weird quirks in faey culture. The human in him still shines through as does his morals.

[Mad Monk]

Well, the waiting is almost over - we shall see who was most accurate with their predictions....