Consortium Attack - Timing

[ampws]

Fel has stated that it is the psychological effects of hyperspace on the nervous system (mind) that limits the amount of continuous travel in hyperspace. Not hyperspace radiation.

I think that Fel means 5 years travel time with instant (20 seconds in hyperspace = 20 seconds in real world) real-time hyperspace travel. This would tie in with the consortium having timing problems regarding their fleets.

Stargates were not an existing technology when the Consortium first tried to colonise our galaxy so they would not have developed the technology. The only way that they could know about them is if on their return to our galaxy they found out about them.

I am assuming in this that they have only recently returned to this galaxy say within the last 5 or 6 years. Given some sort of instant communication between here and andromeda that would tie in with the timing problems.

5-6 Years ago Scouts get to our galaxy
5 Years ago they report the resurgence of the Karrines and the possibility of gaining their technology
5 Years ago First Fleet (Insectoids) leaves Andromeda

The timing on this is very tight Jason only announced the resurgence of the Karrines in 2008 by claiming the House title the Consortium attacks in 2013. This means that the Consortium must have launched an attack fleet almost immediately.

I am assuming that the Consortium task force of scouts would not have a ship big enough to transport a gate. That is assuming that they could purchase one, it would be only sensible for the Faey to keep tight control of them.

I am also assuming that gates have a distance limitation, probably a galactic diametre. Thus Stargates would only work within a galaxy or at galactic distances.

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My computer is powered by the kinetic energy of coins falling out of my bank account.

[Spec8472]

I am also assuming that gates have a distance limitation, probably a galactic diametre. Thus Stargates would only work within a galaxy or at galactic distances.

Never watched Stargate Atlantis?

Assuming a gate can be broken up into partially assembled pieces, then put into large transports capable of Stargate travel and Jumping, they can start building a chain of transports between the galaxies. It'll take a while, dependant entirely on how much of the Stargate technology they have. I don't think the Faey have the resources immediately available to stop the bridgehead being built either.

[Ledsmith]

I actually thought of that but considering it nearly cleaned out the bank acounts of house Karrine to buy one I figured it would be prohibatively expensive to construct a "gate bridge". Unless the max range of a gate gets HUGE outside the galactic gravity well.

[furry_wolf2001b]

I actually thought of that but considering it nearly cleaned out the bank acounts of house Karrine to buy one I figured it would be prohibatively expensive to construct a "gate bridge". Unless the max range of a gate gets HUGE outside the galactic gravity well.

Well, as i see it, it was not the cost of -making- one, but fees for an existing commodity, tightly restricted, and such.
And even if the cost is huge, being able to cut down the travel time is such a HUGE benefit it may be profitable anyway.
So even a "short" chain may be under construction.
There are the problem ofcorse of securing it(the chain), and actually getting the bits and pieces to their locations.
Then are/may be the cost saving things, can it for example be made just small/big enuf to handle the biggest ship.
Having ships gated one at a time may actually be a some what good safety feature.
(I do not remember how the karrine gate handled)
But still, i imagine a chain (if one is needed) would be expensive, but so would the war fleets too.
Shortening the supply chain would actually enable them to make war more feisable, plus safer to them.
If their enemy have no place to counter attack after all....

Still, travel time plus build time for the engineer ships...
The fast way would naturally be having a ship/group of ships for each chain gate, slower would be one at a time, middle ground would be to start and move on while those left finish that gate...

During all that time the home empire would build and advance in ships and teck, so the day the chain is done to a satisfactory degree a truly huge fleet could be ready to fly.
That dose not even take into account what have yet to arrive but that may have been sent already in the meantime.

[ampws]

The cost of the Stargate is in its purchase price not its running costs.

It is true that purchasing a single Stargate cost the Karrines heavily. But you have to realise that Stargates must come in pairs.

Jason had to make a deal with the denmother for the other stargate.

Also although Fel has not stated it I suspect that no non-faey race has ever been allowed to purchase a Stargate they give the faey too much of a military advantage.

And before you moan that the Kimdorri have stargate technology remember what they are. I suspect Dahani would be mightily annoyed to find out that the Kimdorri have stargate technology.

Now saying that for story telling purposes let us assume that the Consortium scouts when they reached our galaxy 6 years ago found out about the Stargates. They somehow managed to get hold of a small one (remember we are positing a small scouting/task force) and they decide to send it back to Andromeda for reverse engineering.

It would arrive in the Andromeda galaxy at roughly the same sort of time that the Karrines were attacked. The Consortium would have to deconstruct it, reverse engineer it, learn how to scale it up in size and tool up to start producing stargates.

Then they would have to start doing original research that the Faey themselves have not done to learn about the maximum range of a stargate. Once they have determined its distance limitations they would have to start daisy chaining them between the two galaxies.

Finally they would have to get one of their stargates to the scout group/ task force. Assuming that they haven't managed to steal/buy a capital ship size one of there own.

The earliest I can see I consortium Stargate threat is 2018 or 2020
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My computer is powered by the kinetic energy of coins falling out of my bank account.

[furry_wolf2001b]

Hmmyeah, and i dunno about the pair thing, i do agree there have too bee an entry and an exit but i dont remeber if that is exclusive or if they can be in a network thingie.

And i dont know but i assume nothing have been mentioned about they having gates already.
Do not get me wrong tho, they probably dont have that teck, but i are not sure.

I do agree that the fey would probably not sell actual gates (most of the time at least) but perhaps have/run one for others to use and they pay for it.
Like taking toll on passage or some thing like it.
I dunno why i brought that up tho.

Hmm, seems like i need to re read the ending at least to refresh my memory a bit..

[ampws]

Hello furry_wolf2001b,

Have not logged on for a long time but was reading your comments. Yeah stargates come in pairs. But the entry can be switched to multiple exits.

I was thinking about the distance limitation of stargates and how for story telling purposes it would limit them to say a galactic diametre.

Considering the distance to another galaxy I am tempted to push my invasion via stargate timeline back to 2026 or 2028. I think an invasion by Consortium fleets is a far more likely possibility. A daisy chain of stargates would have hundreds *no* thousands of links.

Each stargate would have to be carried to the correct point in space via a large carrier. Admitedly once set up return home would be damn near instantaneous.

It would be a long term project I can easily see it taking 15 or 20 years, maybe more. Unfortunately the consortium *has* that kind of long view.

After all, can energy beings age?

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My computer is powered by the kinetic energy of coins falling out of my bank account.

[boballab]

One thing overlooked in this disscussion is the presence of the captured faey the consortium have.

If we go with some type of real time or near real time communications that can span inter galactic space, I would posit that the consortium left behind implanted spies. Faey telepathy can not at this point determine the presence of the implants and we don't know how in depth standard medical scans are, so its possible that the Consortium left implanted faey behind. These spies then could pass on the specs of stargate tech to the Consortium. I would say this would make it more likely for your scenerio. Trying to get a fleet together is a logistical nightmare and not something you do in a spur of the moment. We can guess that the insectoids were born on the way to our galaxy since they can't live in a planets gravity well for long periods of time. Also remember everything Jason knows about the history of the Consortium comes from a second hand source the Urumi's computer network. Now is it plausible that the Consortium lied to the Urumi and they didn't retreat all the way back to Andromeda? So base everything that has been learned from the Urumi computers as being suspect info and unconfirmed except for the knoweledge of the Generations program.

The only hard information Jason has is:
1. The Consortium has at least two races in it, the Energy beings and the Insectoids.
2. The Insectoids are being Mind controlled. Songa recovered implants from every Insectoid corpse and these devices were confirmed to be MC devices by Myleena.
3. Consortium Tech is based on 1,000 year old Karinne Tech. What was recovered from the Consortium ships looked like Karinne tech and when Aura passed her story on about what happened on Exile that confirms what that tech was based on.
4. The Consortium has real time hyperspace. As seen by Cybi's sensors.
5. The Consortium knows about the Generations program and is it's ultimate goal concerning house Karinne.
6. The Consortium captured Non Generation Karinne nobles and commoners. It is the only way for the Consortium to learn about the program was to caputre Karinne Nobles and the only way so far seen to get that secret out of them would be via MC implants.

Every other piece of information is either something the Consortium passed on to the Urumi that can't be verified yet as to being the truth or conjecture on the characters or readers parts.

[miraborn]

I just thought of another thing . . . What is the range/power of the mind control and/or telepathy?

We know that Cibi can communicate to Jason pretty much anywhere, instantaneously, but we don't know if that communication has any range limitations. When talking intra-galactic distances rather than inter-galactic distances, the range/power issue does become something of an issue. Even at the planetary distance range, normal telepathy is quite limited - remember that Faey pilots need to get close to a target in order to affect telepathic "weaponry" against an enemy. If the energy beings are using some form of transmitter to perform their MC on the insectoids, where are those transmitters and how big is the range? If they have some spies, like Faey with MC devices, what would the range of those devices be?

From a physics perspective, the only thing I can think of that would be able to work would be some form of gravity field manipulation system - as gravity is the only force that is not bound by the relativistic effects of the light speed barrier. The Special and General theories of Relativity both address the time-dilation and mass-dilation effects of speed approaching c, yet it is know that the effects of mass and change-in-mass on the curvature of space-time are instantaneous. If a device can be constructed that can pinpoint spacetime curvature fluctuations over vast distances, that can be used as a form of instant communication.

-M

[Fel]

I just thought of another thing . . . What is the range/power of the mind control and/or telepathy?

We know that Cibi can communicate to Jason pretty much anywhere, instantaneously, but we don't know if that communication has any range limitations. When talking intra-galactic distances rather than inter-galactic distances, the range/power issue does become something of an issue. Even at the planetary distance range, normal telepathy is quite limited - remember that Faey pilots need to get close to a target in order to affect telepathic "weaponry" against an enemy. If the energy beings are using some form of transmitter to perform their MC on the insectoids, where are those transmitters and how big is the range? If they have some spies, like Faey with MC devices, what would the range of those devices be?

From a physics perspective, the only thing I can think of that would be able to work would be some form of gravity field manipulation system - as gravity is the only force that is not bound by the relativistic effects of the light speed barrier. The Special and General theories of Relativity both address the time-dilation and mass-dilation effects of speed approaching c, yet it is know that the effects of mass and change-in-mass on the curvature of space-time are instantaneous. If a device can be constructed that can pinpoint spacetime curvature fluctuations over vast distances, that can be used as a form of instant communication.

-M

Just FYI, Cybi's range isn't unlimited, her range is extended by the hyperspace probes they seeded through the sector. Each probe extends her ability to communicate with biogenic devices into the area that probe covers. Without those probes, her range would be limited only to large-scale devices with strong transceivers.

The gestalt itself is capable of hyperspace communications, and has a range of about 5 light years (because it broadcasts through hyperspace, where distances mean different things). Jason could talk to Cybi without any probes boosting/relaying his signal within the Karis system and a goodly way out from it, but his gestalt's transceiver doesn't have the power to reach much past that. That's why the probes are arrayed in a grid, allowing Cybi to reach Jason virtually anywhere within the Imperium and to a distance of 1,000 light years beyond Karis and away from the Imperium; remember that Karis is on the border of the Imperium, not in the middle, and there's nothing but empty, unclaimed space beyond with no systems or anything of value which has made any civilization stake a claim on that space. Must be because of that quasar I put out there that couldn't exist in the real world.

[miraborn]

Just FYI, Cybi's range isn't unlimited, her range is extended by the hyperspace probes they seeded through the sector. Each probe extends her ability to communicate with biogenic devices into the area that probe covers. [snip] That's why the probes are arrayed in a grid, allowing Cybi to reach Jason virtually anywhere within the Imperium and to a distance of 1,000 light years beyond Karis and away from the Imperium; remember that Karis is on the border of the Imperium, not in the middle...

I did forget that tidbit, but it does raise an interesting question: How far can the "enemy" communicate, and how do they do it?

[DigitalMaestro]

Must be because of that quasar I put out there that couldn't exist in the real world.

o my.... a hint! now let's all scramble like piranhas to figure out what he could mean only to be put in our place when he gets back to writing subj...

[dellstart]

Must be because of that quasar I put out there that couldn't exist in the real world.

o my.... a hint! now let's all scramble like piranhas to figure out what he could mean only to be put in our place when he gets back to writing subj...

Indeed food for thought.

[boballab]

Must be because of that quasar I put out there that couldn't exist in the real world.

o my.... a hint! now let's all scramble like piranhas to figure out what he could mean only to be put in our place when he gets back to writing subj...

I'll take a shot at it.

It was the result of an ancient Karinne experiment with a quantum singularity that collapsed and made a black hole.

[dellstart]

Must be because of that quasar I put out there that couldn't exist in the real world.

o my.... a hint! now let's all scramble like piranhas to figure out what he could mean only to be put in our place when he gets back to writing subj...

I'll take a shot at it.

It was the result of an ancient Karinne experiment with a quantum singularity that collapsed and made a black hole.

Damn Karrines always screwing up those experiments !