The Faey & Stretched Space

[ampws]

The Faey technology of stretched space is an old one dating back to before the developement of the PPG.

Jason used the tecnology to get his vehicals in and out of cheyanne mountain, though it was called a space-conveyor.

PPG's are small which implies that the stretched space technology is very small as well. The Karrines were much more advanced than the rest of the imperium in there technologies. More specifically they had a greater lock on space and dimension technology, as witness their hyperspace technological advances.

Therefore I would have expected them to be equally advanced in their space stretching technology (I suspect that this is the technology that Myleena is using to miniturize the singularity power plants along with moleculartronic circuitry).

So why doesn't Jason or the Karrines carry portable stretched space 'holes'. If they can carry a device the size of a PPG I would expect them to be able to carry a 'hole' big enough to carry say - Jasons armour (complete with weapons).

I should think a device attatched to a belt about the size of a tobacco pouch should be able to generate a 'hole' big enough to store virtually an entire wardrobe at the very least big enough for an armour pocket.

AMPWS

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[miraborn]

Interesting thought.

A few counter-thoughts:
How do you get items into and out of the "portable hole"?
While space is stretched, thus volume, does mass still count?
This could become a major security issue - imagine someone carrying a portable hole with a few nukes in it into a sensitive area, like Jason's villa or even just getting close to the Empress's palace.

[DigitalMaestro]

This definitely has merit, but not quite as much as you might think. This would exponentially increase the cargo capacity of a ship, but the wardrobe-in-pocket idea doesn't work quite so well. Unlike Tarrin's dimensional hole, the warped space simply allows more volume in a space. The weight remains the same, so the full weight of the armor would still be exerted upon the holder of the warped space. Smuggling of light but bulky items is very feasible, but large, heavy items present real difficulty.

Digital Maestro

[Fel]

This definitely has merit, but not quite as much as you might think. This would exponentially increase the cargo capacity of a ship, but the wardrobe-in-pocket idea doesn't work quite so well. Unlike Tarrin's dimensional hole, the warped space simply allows more volume in a space. The weight remains the same, so the full weight of the armor would still be exerted upon the holder of the warped space. Smuggling of light but bulky items is very feasible, but large, heavy items present real difficulty.

Digital Maestro

Close to correct.

Stretched space still holds the mass, and that mass has weight. So carrying around a purse holding a dropship will still have the dropship's weight.

But, weight is a function of gravity, which the Faey can also manipulate...but it has limits They can lighten the load of that purse holding a dropship, but the more the gravity is altered, the more power it takes, and thus the larger the equipment to do it has to be. It's a vicious cycle that loops in ever-diminishing returns that makes doing big stuff like this basicly impractical.

But it can and is done on a small scale, because they can't do it on a large scale. Stretched space doesn't mix well with stargates on a large scale. The small bubbles in PPGs and power plants aren't disrupted by stargates, but large-scale spatial warps are disrupted by travel through a stargate. Stargates are, by definition, wormholes through space produced by massive spatial warping, and the more space a device warps, the more it's affected by a stargate.

PPGs stretch space, but the mass they hold in their bubble really doesn't have much weight, so it's a moot point worrying about the weight of a PPG.

The Faey have some extra-dimensional gadgets like that, but they're very expensive to build small, so they're limited to military or espionage functions. They also do have some "stretched" cargo ships, but those ships can't use this trick and go through a stargate, so they're relegated mainly to working in a single star system. But inside a system, ferrying cargo from planet to planet, they're very effective. Gravometric engines are more than capable of moving extremely heavy loads as long as they're functioning out in space (just look at Sticks, able to move very heavy loads using gravometric engines), away from a gravity well, because the thrust they induce is independent of the mass of the ships they move. The engines are very ungainly and slow to change speeds in space if the ship is really massive (overloaded), but they will eventually. That's the relentless nature of gravity.

[ampws]

Hmm!

Jason as a Grand Duke I feel sure would come under the catagory of expence is no problem - if it is 'your' security.

Also faey armour is fairly light, Karrine armour I suspect even moreso.

The Faey have some extra-dimensional gadgets like that, but they're very expensive to build small, so they're limited to military or espionage functions.

I suspect Karrine technology could improve slightly on anything 'Black Ops' could produce. Therefore I see no barrier to Jason having a 'pocket' that could contain his armour.

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[storyreader2005]

I suspect Karrine technology could improve slightly on anything 'Black Ops' could produce. Therefore I see no barrier to Jason having a 'pocket' that could contain his armour.

I agree that Jason could probably come up with some inconspicious way of carrying around his armor. However it's a far cry between carrying it around and actually having enough warning/time to get into it if he needs it. "A Marine has to be able to get into armor with no help in five minutes." It wouldn't take Jason 5 minutes since he's had a lot of practice, but it would take more than 45 seconds which is a lifetime in a firefight with mpac weapons.

[ampws]

Yes, true.

But Jason could keep his railgun in the 'pocket', or smoke bombs.

The entire idea of the pocket is that if in a dicey situation it gives you an edge. Providing you are not killed in the first moments of the attack and can get to hiding. It allows you to rapidly weapon and armour up.

The 'pocket' could even contain a shield generator/reflector that bounces MPAC rounds.

The idea works against hand-held weapons, but MPAC weapons that are more powerful, like in vehicles, have too much mass and power for the reflectors they've designed so far to work.

Fel stated that the idea of a shield gaunlet was no good for larger MPAC's but in a personal firefight against rifles it would do very well.

Think of the pocket as an emergency survival kit.

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[Quindo Ma]

This is blatantly ripping off various other sci-fi shows and whatnot that did something like this before, but using this idea, it should be possible to create belts or bracers or similar items that generally are easy to conceal, but contain the building blocks of automated armor that extends out of those items and drops into place, sealing itself and giving, if not the same as a full exoskeletal bodysuit, at least a significant boost over not having anything.

In any dire situation, the activation can be triggered and the armor automatically suits up.

At the very least though, having a Karrine armor styled shield (as in medieval body shields) that can be popped out and act as a manual defense against incoming fire.

[ampws]

No! You are thinking of Stargate or Lost in Space.

That kind of smart material is inconsistent with the tech Fel has introduced in the 'Subjugation Universe'. While I am sure that there are smart materials about I wouldn't have thought that they were armour grade. Balistic grade maybe providing that the ballistic speeds of the projectiles were low enough. But then Faey merralite cloth that is sold by the Faey armourers in clothing can act as balistic armour.

The idea of a pocket or a 'hole' is that it can act as an emergency backup. No instant armour.

It is solely there to give Jason an edge. As someone pointed out it takes time to get into armour, there are no instant fixes. About the only thing he could use instantly from such a pocket would be bombs (smoke bombs and grenades), weapons and the shield gauntlet.

If he could get away (very likely) then he would be able to find somewhere to strip and armour up.

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[ANTIcarrot]

The seems possible the only kind of 'instant armor' Jason is likely to have is the kind where your bodyguards pile on top of you.

There are lower tech approaches that might work. One of the often forgotten things about MPACs is that they have to explode within a fixed distance/time of the moment they first encounter substantial matter. If a round travels a meter after touching my chest, then it's going to explode 80cm behind my back. If it hits my arm and travels 20cm before exploding, it will detonate 10cm from my skin. In order to be effective, infantry MPAC rounds really need to detonate after 5 to 10cm. In which case simply hold a metal shield out in front of you. The round will detonate 5cm after touching the front of the shield, which in my case would be about 25cm from my chest. While nasty, such wounds needn't be fatal or crippling, especially given Fey medicine and that there's no shrapnel involved. Or if I was wearing even basic Fey armor.

Unfortunately, if scaled up to mecha-sized, this same kind of 'no-tech' solution would likely be effective against rail run and teryon weapons as well. So I suspect we won't see any roman shields in the Subjugation story - because I sincerely doubt Fel wants things to be that simple.

[storyreader2005]

ANTIcarrot,
I think you got "solid" projectiles like Jason's rail gun and "energy" weapons like the MPAC confused.

The MPAC rounds are plasma surrounded by a magnetic field. The MPAC rounds aren't "armor piercing" in the traditional sense. It's not like the round is going to "explode" behind the target, the plasma is released as soon as it's disrupted (by air friction / loss of field strength / impact) and it will damage whatever material got in its way until it dissipates. So the plasma might chew through a shield, but in the case of hand weapons without having enough momentum to kill whoever is on the other side.

Unlike a traditional "bomb" that has a sensor (radar or impact) inside of it to "detonate" the explosive filler (say like "after" it punched a hole in a shield).

[ANTIcarrot]

ANTIcarrot,
I think you got "solid" projectiles like Jason's rail gun and "energy" weapons like the MPAC confused.

I do not believe so.

As originally described, (or at least as I remember it) MPAC rounds are metaphased plasma inside a magnetic field. That means that some of it is 'out of phase' with normal matter and can pass through it. The matter that is in phase with normal matter is of course stopped cold, which presumably disrupts the magnetic field and the metaphased effect, causing all the plasma to reintegrate into normal space after a short distance. Bang. Technobabble aside, this effect is identical to APEX, which means they will be vulnerable to all the usual variations of spaced armor.

Thinking of the elementary counter measures a correctly designed MPAC gun could use to defeat such tactics is left as a simple exercise for the student.

[storyreader2005]

As originally described, (or at least as I remember it) MPAC rounds are metaphased plasma inside a magnetic field. That means that some of it is 'out of phase' with normal matter and can pass through it. The matter that is in phase with normal matter is of course stopped cold, which presumably disrupts the magnetic field and the metaphased effect, causing all the plasma to reintegrate into normal space after a short distance.

That's how I remember it too...... Except for the magnetic field part.

The magnetic field contains the metaphased plasma to keep it from dissipating on it's way to the target. The magnetic field isn't metaphased so that as soon as the field collapses (due to whatever) all that plasma is right there in normal space and begins to interact with it (aka burn holes in stuff, even if it's just air).

So the magnetic field hits a shield or armor and collapses. Now the plasma starts to react to its environment (burn holes in stuff) and it keeps moving in that direction until it dissipates (and if the round is strong/big enough burn a hole clean through and keep going). The plasma doesn't go through anything before it starts to burn stuff, it does it from the start.

MPAC rounds can't explode since plasma burns... it's the material that the plasma comes into contact with that "explodes".

[ampws]

Which is why Fel / Jasons idea of a shield gauntlet that projects a magnetic field that enhances the magnetic cage around the plasma would work.

The entire idea of the magnetic containment 'cage' containing the metaphased plasma is that it breaks down on contact allowing the plasma to explode.

Jasons idea (actually rereading I think it was Tims idea) was that if the magnetic field was stronger then simple physics would cause the plasma to bounce off the target. All the shield would do is add energy to the cage surroung the metaphased plasma.

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[furry_wolf2001b]

Some thoughts / questions.
If the plasma is meta phased so should the mpac round containment shield/field be too i think. :-/
So long a defense shield is able to "pop" the round off before it reaches its target it will be useful for that round at least (unless remaining plasma happens to touch target, then armor gets into it).
Now after that consideration i think rate of fire and the shields ability to regenerate/recover/reset.
I do not remember how one phased shields affect multi phased mpac plasma rounds tho...

As for the porta hole thing.
It has both contain the generator and all the stuff that will create the hole.
Add that to what ewer you want to carry around.
May be wherry much more efficient to just carry a belt with some stuff hanging off it.
I do not see it as a practical thing to use, personally, unless for some -particular- reason.
There are a slew of better ways to go about things, heck if carrying around stuff is what you want, get a little waldo anti grav drone doing it, it may ewen be a good idea to use a porta hole on that as -it- wont mind lugging around half a ton of stuff everywhere.
Heck, you could have a defense drone with that option, or maybe it would be better keeping the two jobs separated.
Hmm, just thought of a modular robot, kind of a Siamese twin thing, one goes helps him on with armor while the other part protects or counter attacks(or whatever is needed/ordered)

As for the armor, some one mentioned marines, and a not smart comment that he would be able to do it -way- faster.. >_>
I beg to differ, they are a -well- trained bunch of beings, and he may be up to their standards but not way beyond them.

Another thing about armor, if you can make it lighter, why would they not simply slap that much more armor on it?
Unless the armor is ungainly(if thats the right word) in the original stats.
Gah! what a huge post that turned out to become.. >_<