Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

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betatester
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Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by betatester » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:35 am

So the Syndicate is gearing for total war with Milky Way, Jason messed up with destroying their personal properties.(their precious)

Now Jason has to scramble for a solution to avoid total war. I think Jason should stop pussy footing and start gearing for total war as well. and he has a easy solution for the Million ship naval invasion; just trap them in the intergalactic void between galaxies and in the flat space with his interdictors and just keep sending toys to destroy them in the interdicted trap.

Also now that lots of people are applying for membership in the house, Jason should massively expand the program and get more population for his house and start to develop other planets that he has colonized and start making them core planets of his house[empire] as well. The house of Karinne has lots of undeveloped real-estate that could absorb a massive population; really just kick his empire into high gear with more people living and working & more recruit able manpower for his navy and army.

Jason's long term goal should be able to stand on his own feet against any number of enemies, if he wants to keep Translight drive secure and the First step towards that is more pop.

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Re: Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by expedient » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:59 pm

In the previous chapter, Jason spent a lot of time worrying that he could make the same mistakes as the Consortium and end up becoming as heartless and ruthless as the Syndicate. So no.

Is there a magic bullet? Probably not.

He could possibly delay the inevitable by killing the entire leading council. That wouldn't change the avarice of the Benga though.

So how could he change, or cower, the Benga?


(Side note: Oye trees return to the narrative.)
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Re: Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by SYED » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:46 pm

The thing is if the syndicate fleet is dispatched, there is limited route they can use to cross galaxies. So perfect for ambush, and due yo it being mostly void, they can bring out the big booms
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Re: Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by betatester » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:07 pm

I am not talking about becoming like The Consortium or the Syndicate; but he can easily destroy that million ship fleet if he gets down to it.

he can still involve the confederation into destroying that fleet and then trying to negotiate

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Re: Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by Wolfee » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:20 am

I would say that Jason needs to do several things.
1. Decap strike and kill off the board. Maybe even to the point of destroying their capital planet when all members of the board are there in one massive display of fire power.
2. Produce a engineered plague and be ready to distribute it to all Benga planets, or produce nanoplague warhead ready for distribution to population center.
3. Prepare for a deep space ambush of the enemy fleet.
4. Design a warhead to induce supernova or to shutdown atomic reactions in a star.

Once you have killed off the board, you contact the military leadership and explain the weapons that will be used next. Jason might have to destroy the enemy fleet first and then contact them....and mention his galaxy killer as a final solution.

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Re: Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by Hello World » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:02 am

Hate to be the devil's advocate here but
betatester wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:35 am
Also now that lots of people are applying for membership in the house, Jason should massively expand the program and get more population for his house and start to develop other planets that he has colonized and start making them core planets of his house[empire] as well. The house of Karinne has lots of undeveloped real-estate that could absorb a massive population; really just kick his empire into high gear with more people living and working & more recruit able manpower for his navy and army.
This would probably clash against the views of a decent amount of confederation members. Since in their eyes, not only does he have movement capabilities century more advanced, but he has also kicked off a war (kinda). If he's starting to expand his population and build up his military force because "incoming invaders", I would imagine many members of the council would become very concerned. If Jason was a power-hungry ruler that was seeking to expand his domain (i.e. like most rulers in the council), starting the war with the Syndicate would actually be very beneficial for him (just cause to expand his military might, cement the Karinnes as untouchable since they can't afford infighting during this type of war, etc.).

Wolfee wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:20 am
I would say that Jason needs to do several things.
2. Produce a engineered plague and be ready to distribute it to all Benga planets, or produce nanoplague warhead ready for distribution to population center.
4. Design a warhead to induce supernova or to shutdown atomic reactions in a star.
....and mention his galaxy killer as a final solution.
The other ideas, maybe. But I'm fairly certain that Jason wouldn't condone the use of indiscriminate and uncontrollable weapons of mass destruction on innocent civilians.
Last edited by Hello World on Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by Hello World » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:08 am

Duplicate post somehow. Oops.

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Re: Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by betatester » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:20 am

Jason already has a migration program to get more pops for his house & he is constantly expanding his military forces; I just want him to exponentially expand it and start developing rest of his empire, make all those other planets core holdings as well and start building CBIM's on those planets as well.

As for the war It might be Jason's fault but it was approved by the confederation so they can try to stick the blame on him but there hands are not clean as well.

At least all those empires which were instrumental in liberating the Dreamers would be willing to fight the Syndicate and if that million ship fleet reaches Milky Way then the whole confederation would fight them together.

I just think if it looks like war is inevitable then Jason can persuade they whole confederation to fight it in Andromeda instead of Milky way as there is less risk that way

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Re: Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by Hello World » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:30 am

betatester wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:20 am
Jason already has a migration program to get more pops for his house & he is constantly expanding his military forces; I just want him to exponentially expand it and start developing rest of his empire, make all those other planets core holdings as well and start building CBIM's on those planets as well.
A large reason why other nations are not wary of the Karinnes is their non-expansionism policy. If the Karinnes decide to expand and populate other planets, they will inevitably become not only the best-teched, but largest nation in the Confederacy due to the translight drives. Sure, it would probably not happen in a single lifetime, but it would inevitably happen. This would cause inevitable conflict within the confederation. It would be like if Switzerland suddenly became the most scientifically advanced nation in the world and had the ability to terraform other planets. Sure, they have shone themselves to be peaceful, but I doubt any of the large world powers would just sit there and watch Switzerland grow into something that can fight every single other nation in the world at once.

Also, I don't remember where, but I'm fairly certain Jason has stated that that the only place where the Karinnes will truly live would be Karis and everywhere else would only be tapped for resources.
betatester wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:20 am
I just think if it looks like war is inevitable then Jason can persuade they whole confederation to fight it in Andromeda instead of Milky way as there is less risk that way
Agreed, although flat space would probably be a more likely option since it's harder for the Syndicate to get reinforcement there and it's also far away from the Confederate civilians.

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Re: Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by kyli » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:51 pm

expedient wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:59 pm

He could possibly delay the inevitable by killing the entire leading council. That wouldn't change the avarice of the Benga though.

So how could he change, or cower, the Benga?
My solution would be to have a Kimdori get into a board meeting and assassinate every single person in the room and leave a peace treaty laying neatly on the table. I think a message written on the table in blood would be too much. :twisted: :twisted: It is my opinion that the Benga that replaced the board leaders would see the assassinations in same the way Jason intended the current leaders to see him destroying their most prized vacation homes. If you war with us, you personally will not be immune to attack. The successors will not have personal reasons to see the Confederation destroyed, and will in fact owe their positions to the Confederation. But, in order to prevent what happened to the old board members to happen to them, they have to sign the treaty or at least negotiate. Of coarse, they might not see it that way, but a second demonstration could always be arranged.

Ok, I should stop typing now. My ideas are getting a bit too extreme.

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Re: Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by Wolfee » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:23 am

Hello World wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:02 am
Hate to be the devil's advocate here but
betatester wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:35 am
Also now that lots of people are applying for membership in the house, Jason should massively expand the program and get more population for his house and start to develop other planets that he has colonized and start making them core planets of his house[empire] as well. The house of Karinne has lots of undeveloped real-estate that could absorb a massive population; really just kick his empire into high gear with more people living and working & more recruit able manpower for his navy and army.
This would probably clash against the views of a decent amount of confederation members. Since in their eyes, not only does he have movement capabilities century more advanced, but he has also kicked off a war (kinda). If he's starting to expand his population and build up his military force because "incoming invaders", I would imagine many members of the council would become very concerned. If Jason was a power-hungry ruler that was seeking to expand his domain (i.e. like most rulers in the council), starting the war with the Syndicate would actually be very beneficial for him (just cause to expand his military might, cement the Karinnes as untouchable since they can't afford infighting during this type of war, etc.).

Wolfee wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:20 am
I would say that Jason needs to do several things.
2. Produce a engineered plague and be ready to distribute it to all Benga planets, or produce nanoplague warhead ready for distribution to population center.
4. Design a warhead to induce supernova or to shutdown atomic reactions in a star.
....and mention his galaxy killer as a final solution.
The other ideas, maybe. But I'm fairly certain that Jason wouldn't condone the use of indiscriminate and uncontrollable weapons of mass destruction on innocent civilians.
I think Jason would do whatever was needed to protect the milkyway. Yes, Jason would not sleep well for a long time if he had to pull that particular trigger. Survival cancels out programing... Jason still has morals, but a moral person can do terrible things to protect those he loves. No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life, well maybe not he life but the ability to look himself in the mirror or to sleep well. Jason would do it in a heartbeat. He would have killed the dreamers if he couldn't save them. He wouldn't like it, but he would have done it.

Jason's real fear with the galaxy killer is the aftermath might damage our galaxy.

Jason's reservations come last in this equation... remember what Dahani said about having 90 billion mouths to feed? Well when there is an entire galaxy on the line the lives of the other sides innocent are an acceptable loss. Jason is not evil, he is more dangerous than that, he is a man with power, who has a large loving family, lots of friends, a wonderful outlook for the future for his house and his galaxy. He has everything to lose. Do the ends justify the means? How can they not if they protect everyone and everything you are trying to protect? Sometimes it simply comes down to the lesser of 2 evils, the destruction of one galaxy or many when the Board sets their eyes on other galaxies after they where done with the milkyway.

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Re: Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by SYED » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:13 am

It seems Jason is for afraid than he should be. It will take time and resources to launch an epic revenge fleet, they need supplies and refit ships for both operations against the confederation and to make the trip accross the void. There is a limit to what kind of course they can take and it will still take years.

Jason has a secure system with a star gate in andromeda, the remote portal stations and the translight hyperdrive being equipped to his FTL fleet. As soon as the dreamers are fully removed from the benga, he can unleash his full legion style fury on the syndicate. Likely making them so vulnerable that the remaining consortium forces could potentially win the war on their own.

This retaliatory fleet might be a good thing. It was mentioned that telepaths were specificly recruited for the last expedition, so want to bet if they are going after a powerful telepathic power like house karrine, they would recruit more. So most if not all the front line military telepaths would be sent. Those that were detailed to guard the dreamers would most definitely be sent out of punishment. The benga are said to be about 50% telepathic, I wonder how many then decide to go into the military. They would accept all the front line capable gifted, then fill the ranks of the fleet with that with the gift.
Sort of like how all faey get military subscription, nobles go into their own house forces while the imperial forces only accept the most powerful of recruits from the commoners. So all the imperial class military telepathic benga will be sent for revenge, and if more are needed, they would simply fill the crew with benga that serve the military in a non telepathic avenue but still posses the gift.

Also, house karrine wrecking the benga by themselves might be enough to get the confederate members to toe the line. The see the house crippling such a power like the benga, makes them aware if they cross them, they could suffer a similar fate. It is one thing to know a fact in theory, but to see it happen to such a powerful foe in a whole new ballgame.
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Re: Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by Not a ID » Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:55 am

SYED wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:13 am
It seems Jason is for afraid than he should be. It will take time and resources to launch an epic revenge fleet, they need supplies and refit ships for both operations against the confederation and to make the trip accross the void. There is a limit to what kind of course they can take and it will still take years.

Jason has a secure system with a star gate in andromeda, the remote portal stations and the translight hyperdrive being equipped to his FTL fleet. As soon as the dreamers are fully removed from the benga, he can unleash his full legion style fury on the syndicate. Likely making them so vulnerable that the remaining consortium forces could potentially win the war on their own.
It depends on how rational the Benga Leadership is being. Even their "Standard configuration" ships are valid threats to the Milky Way, and an attack in numbers would likely still be adequate to the task of overwhelming the Milky Way's defenders even despite their technological superiority. Historical Precedents exist here on Earth. Of course, those ships DO have to survive the Transit first. I'm sure they can provide more than ample cause for those ships to end up taking multiple detours and breaking into smaller parts over the course of their flight. (Particle streams anyone?)

3D will certainly have plenty of time to give them hell as well. (I think some large-ish anti-matter bombs making use of the Frigate IP armor could make for "interesting times" for the Benga as well, you don't need to destroy the ship when it's years away, just take a large bite out of their primary armor)

And as previously mentioned, the threat only exists with the current Board as it stands. You may not even need to kill them outright, just keep hitting their various properties on a semi-regular basis. In that respect, they already cast their dice with their order of a "Retribution Fleet" to scourge the Milky Way. So long as they remain in power, the people's of the Milky Way have no reason to back down now. So just keep whittling down their physical, personal, assets until someone else has more money than the retaliating board members do, and leave the new (less-hostile) board members alone. :mrgreen:

Proceed with "Harass the Fleet" as well, to make it clear that such undertakings are going to be expensive for them personally, as well as at the corporate level. You don't need to defeat the entire fleet, you need to make the people on the board decide it isn't worthwhile for them to pursue it and recall their fleet.

The challenge is that puts the Confederation in the position of operating a 4 front fight with varying levels of participation on each front. KMS Frigates stealth bombing board member properties, ongoing Confederation actions in Andromeda to keep the Benga worried back home, harassment actions directed at the incoming super-fleet, and work on the home front just in case the worst-case comes to pass.

We need to remember that many of the defense scenarios covered in the series to date were outlined without use of the Hyperspace FTL drive being considered as something to be used "in depth." Hit and run IS as option for them now.
This retaliatory fleet might be a good thing. It was mentioned that telepaths were specificly recruited for the last expedition, so want to bet if they are going after a powerful telepathic power like house karrine, they would recruit more. So most if not all the front line military telepaths would be sent. Those that were detailed to guard the dreamers would most definitely be sent out of punishment. The benga are said to be about 50% telepathic, I wonder how many then decide to go into the military. They would accept all the front line capable gifted, then fill the ranks of the fleet with that with the gift.
I could go 50/50 on this. As the plan is "scorched earth" for the entire Milky Way, I doubt surface engagements are going to be on the itinerary for those ships. As I also doubt many/most of those ships are going to be (fully) refitted to an anti-Confederacy loadout. I think many of those ships are going to be considered fully expendable, they're simply fodder to help protect the other more capable ships. As such, the number of telepaths on board may actually be lower than normal because of that.
Sort of like how all faey get military subscription, nobles go into their own house forces while the imperial forces only accept the most powerful of recruits from the commoners. So all the imperial class military telepathic benga will be sent for revenge, and if more are needed, they would simply fill the crew with benga that serve the military in a non telepathic avenue but still posses the gift.
Because of the depth and extent of the disruption currently happening across Andromeda because of Confederate operations regarding the Dreamers. I somewhat doubt there is going to that much reshuffling of ship's crews, if anything, they'd probably be pulling people off, not adding more. Likewise, because of the mass interdiction currently going on, I'm still going to stick to most ships still having a "standard loadout" on weaponry, although many may be provisioned to change some systems out while enroute.
Also, House Karrine wrecking the benga by themselves might be enough to get the confederate members to toe the line. The see the house crippling such a power like the benga, makes them aware if they cross them, they could suffer a similar fate. It is one thing to know a fact in theory, but to see it happen to such a powerful foe in a whole new ballgame.
I seem to recall a comment(which I cannot find) from Fel suggesting that there is another group out there which Jason Karrine is going to encounter, and he's going to want the Syndicate around when that encounter happens. So something tells me that total destruction of that Million Ship Fleet isn't truly on the table. They're going to need to get the Benga to turn that fleet around.

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Re: Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by Fel » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:25 pm

Not a ID wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:55 am
I seem to recall a comment(which I cannot find) from Fel suggesting that there is another group out there which Jason Karrine is going to encounter, and he's going to want the Syndicate around when that encounter happens. So something tells me that total destruction of that Million Ship Fleet isn't truly on the table. They're going to need to get the Benga to turn that fleet around.
Actually, what I said was that the outcome of the war with the Syndicate will influence what will happen when the House of Karinne meets this new group.
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Re: Retrubution Chapter 9 [Spoilers]

Post by SYED » Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:37 pm

By the time the sydicate fleet comes to their home territory, the confederation fleet would be fully refitted with the advanced armor and weaponry, as well as a form of translight FTL for mobility. Such a fleet could be a threat to the benga.

We know house karrine has captured some super ships. If fully refitted with advanced tech, how many benga ships can they take on by it self? Refitting a supership would be a huge investment, but the kimdori and Ruu are advanced enough to assist and add to the program.
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