Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

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SYED
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby SYED » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:21 am

Jason is unique as he is a generation with apparent shamanistic abilities, he might be able to convince the Oye trees to grow on more worlds, not necessarily forests of them but at minimum a single giant tree. I always thought that earth should have one due to it being the center of the confederation. With his Moses persona to the dreamers, giving them a magic giant tree would really help establish him. It could help them deal with escaping from the darkness of the benga.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby Belgarion213 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:27 pm

I think you need Parri or other shaman to grow the oyi trees...and at the moment they don’t really care to live anywhere but where they want. Jason might have Shaman potential but I can’t see him tending millions of tres full time or convincing the Perri to do so.

The Perri seem not to care much about things like the physical empires like the imperium or the Confederacy but much more about intentions.

They might go to earth if there is a will to try and keep the confederacy from shattering after the Syndicate is dealt with but even that seems a stretch. In 4500 years the imperium was a power obsessed aggressive expansionist empire and the Perri didn’t turn up on draconus to plant the trees.

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby SYED » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:54 pm

That was before the imperium was to be ruled by a new line of generations. Such a change might warrant an intervention.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby MartinK » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:18 am

SYED wrote:Jason [...], he might be able to convince the Oye trees to grow on more worlds, not necessarily forests of them but at minimum a single giant tree.


Oh, please, dear tree seed, grow on this world. I'll leave tomorrow one way or another but i think you'll like growing into a big tree all alone among aliens who will just think of you as a fruit tree and try to either cultivate you or hack you down if they want to build something here. Have fun, don't forget me when I'm gone.

That'll go over well with the real shamans and the oye trees whose seeds he tries to spread.

On the other hand, if he just wants to stay with 'his' tree then he can do that on Karis already. No need sticking seeds into other worlds dirt.

SYED wrote:I always thought that earth should have one due to it being the center of the confederation.


Yeah, right, because its full of humans who are so great at taking care of nature and their environment.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby SYED » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:36 am

Oye products are in high demand in the confederation, it seems if you can digest the stuff, then it is a big favorite. So I can see any tree on earth or draconis at least getting the minimum amount of care from the locals.

Say Jason gives the dreamers a tree, want to bet the oracles will have all sorts of interesting dreams concerning it? So would use their influence to ensure its well being. Also, it is a gift from their prophercised messiah who led their people out of slavery, of course they are going to take care of it.

The thing is with the nexus bridge system, Jason could literally visit these lonely Oye trees every day unhindered. And not all Oye tree needs a keep, I think some of the Cbmi have one growing next door. There are whole forests of Oye tree with out keepers.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby Belgarion213 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:02 pm

No, explicitly there are people whose job it is to care for the Tree's. Jason flew around and found where it was 'meant' to be planted and then found a local gardener who was basically told "Do everything to make sure this tree thrives."

And sure, people who know better will do their best to take care of the tree...but people are assholes. Like the oldest trees in the world have to have their locations keep secret because people will turn up to burn them down or cut them up. Or that scientist who was trying to study one of them and killed the tree...or that meth addict who set fire to one of the oldest tree's in the world because they were looking for some light while they took drugs.

Keeping everything secure on Keris is doable because well Cybi and the other CBIMs can keep people from doing stupid shit if they need to, not sure that would go over well with Earth.

And why would JASON give the Dreamers a seed? The Shaman might but even if Jason has Shaman potential he isn't trained in it yet. If the Dreamers are getting a seed (it could happen, especially after being under the yoke of the Syndicate for ages), it would be the Shaman telling him to pass it on.

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby kyli » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:34 pm

And I don't understand why you have this big hang up about getting Oye trees out there. So far we have very very little CONFIRMED answers about what the purpose of the Oye trees are. All we have is wild guess and vague hints. And absolutely nothing has so far convinced me that Oye trees need to be anywhere else then the two planets where they already grow. And I personally won't want everyone and his dog to have Oye trees, really. Not with what we know so far anyway.


Belgarion213 wrote:No, explicitly there are people whose job it is to care for the Tree's. Jason flew around and found where it was 'meant' to be planted and then found a local gardener who was basically told "Do everything to make sure this tree thrives."


Actually that's only true with the Trees on Karis and that won't last, at least, not with all the trees. The Shaman told Jason somewhere that when Oye trees begin growing in the wild naturally on Karis, that's when the soul of the planet will be completely healed.

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby SYED » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:57 pm

I like the Oye trees because they are giant magical trees, that apparently give really delicious fruit. How can you not?
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby MartinK » Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:57 am

SYED wrote:I like the Oye trees because they are giant magical trees, that apparently give really delicious fruit. How can you not?


I really like elephants! They are intelligent, have feelings and just look amazing. So far, everybody tells me to just go to the zoo to look at an elephant and otherwise just buy a damn cat. I can't understand it! I'm sure elephants would make amazing pets. And after they are grown up a bit you can even ride them! Show me a cat or dog you can ride on.

Still, I have come to the conclusion that miracles aside, no elephant ever will get to be a pet in europe or america.

I like elephants! How can other people not? ;-)
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby SYED » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:06 am

I just realised something, the moon sized ships are really self sufficient, they literally have their own farms on board. So the benga might very well send forces of them into any discovered indictored space. They would believe such a force would be able to fulfil their orders once they got into range, even if it means their death. The secrets behind hyperspace denial technologies and the tech needed to work around it would be worth almost any thing to the syndicate, so willing to sacrifice many ships just for a chance of success.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby Wolfee » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:05 pm

SYED wrote:I just realised something, the moon sized ships are really self sufficient, they literally have their own farms on board. So the benga might very well send forces of them into any discovered indictored space. They would believe such a force would be able to fulfil their orders once they got into range, even if it means their death. The secrets behind hyperspace denial technologies and the tech needed to work around it would be worth almost any thing to the syndicate, so willing to sacrifice many ships just for a chance of success.


Suuuuuure.... If you where not under constant fire, by forces that could retreat, repair and rearm at will. Not to mention forces that can destroy any one of your ships with a single shot without entering into range of you weapons. There is suicide and there is pointless.

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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby SYED » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:48 pm

While the syndicate could be aware of the abilities of the kArrine ships, they won't realise the true scale of their ability of unleashing destruction against their ships. It is unprecedented to them that ships so small could be such a viable threat to ships so big and armed/armored. They would be more than willing to accept loses, but never realise just how costly such battles would turn out to be.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby MartinK » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:45 am

SYED wrote:While the syndicate could be aware of the abilities of the kArrine ships, they won't realise the true scale of their ability of unleashing destruction against their ships. It is unprecedented to them that ships so small could be such a viable threat to ships so big and armed/armored. They would be more than willing to accept loses, but never realise just how costly such battles would turn out to be.


So, you think the Benga would send those huge ships that are worth so very much on a wild goose hunt that would take years just to arrive at the interdicted planet? And ignore any sort of enemy fire that targets them? Why do you assume they only get shot at by tiny ships when they would enter an interdiction field around a solar system?

Besides, isn't it one of the most important rules of warfare to always have ways to defend yourself against any of your own weapons? Those giant ships certainly aren't invulnerable, else there wouldn't be wrecks and pieces of them left over from fighting in their own galaxy. And something obviously took out a whole damn fleet that they send over to the other galaxy. Kind of pretty damn dumb to then assume you could move in normal space over a large distance while giving up any possibility to jump to hyperspace and be safe, isn't it?

And who says the enemy can't just deactivate the interdiction field and jump away shortly before you arrive? What a waste of money that would turn out to be then. That would be... Career ending!

BTW: I'm somehow in doubt that those moon ships of the syndicate are even capable of sustained acceleration for any amount of time in real space at all. I don't see why you would build that kind of capability into them if you can safe the costs for that and just use hyperspace for travel. That leaves just whatever movability you need in battles. And given how big they are, i don't see how an enemy can miss those things. So, rather than evade they work more in a kind of 'turtle-armor' way in respect to enemy fire. So, any planetary defence will hit them from a long way away.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby SYED » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:50 am

As far as the syndicate is aware of, for one of their super ships to be destroyed is prolonged bombardment and firepower. So while they might take damage, their heavy armament can take out the enemy ships.

It takes time for indication to fully cove a system, so they might not know just where their ships would be stuck. They would have a lot of ships near by, the force that is usually in system. It seems sensible that using what limited FTL comms they have, and courier ships, they would request reinforcement at the appearenCe of a sizable enemy fleet.
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Re: Retribution, chapter 3, (spoilers)

Postby Wolfee » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:00 am

SYED wrote:As far as the syndicate is aware of, for one of their super ships to be destroyed is prolonged bombardment and firepower. So while they might take damage, their heavy armament can take out the enemy ships.

It takes time for indication to fully cove a system, so they might not know just where their ships would be stuck. They would have a lot of ships near by, the force that is usually in system. It seems sensible that using what limited FTL comms they have, and courier ships, they would request reinforcement at the appearenCe of a sizable enemy fleet.


Actually they know, or they where told and ordered Sha Ra to capture the Tianne. But while Fel stated they where freaked out, he also made it sound like the Board didn't believe Sha Ra's report as to the strength and firepower of the ships the flee was fighting. They have some idea - but have they internalized the information and processed it... followed up by implementing SOPs to deal with such firepower?


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